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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Has anyone attempted homeopathic cures for asthma? We’ve tried 2 different doctors, with 2 different remedies, both resulting in moderate to severe flares within hours or days of trying them (this after several wheeze-free weeks.) I’ve heard success stories but still waiting on my own…. anyone with experience with this — successful or otherwise — ? Karen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <HTML<BODY <DTHas anyone attempted homeopathic cures for asthma? We’ve tried 2 different doctors, with 2 different remedies, both resulting in moderate to severe flares within hours or days of trying them (this after several wheeze-free weeks.) I’ve heard success stories but still waiting on my own…. anyone with experience with this — successful or otherwise — ?</DT <DT </DT <DTKaren</DT </BODY </HTML
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What were the remedies you tried?
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did 
He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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Hi Janet, I would like to talk with you about your experience with Homeopathy. I don’t seem to be getting any results from Psorenum, and my H Doc said to stop until the next time I see her. She has not ever objected to my continuing with the alleopathics, but now I’m wondering if it may be antidoting the remedies. I hope not, because I’m not the suffering kind (which as I understand is part of the philosophy — you don’t relieve the symptoms, you know…let them get better on their after a short period of exasperation). Well being kinda skeptical still, I wonder exactly how short is this period? Did you have to do that, and if yes what was your experience. I’ve had fabulous results with my PA, if I could only get the same results with my P, I would be soooooo happy. Your input would be greatly appreciated. mona
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I was hoping someone would address the claim that homeopaths attend medical school. I thought they were more along the lines of chiropracters, and went to their own "medical" school. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.) Are they "real" doctors? Dr. Amy (Sociologist, Specializing in Diseases of the Organizational Group)
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I gave up on dermatologists years ago and have been treating my psoriasis homeopathically since then. It has it’s ups and downs, but is consistently better, although that may have happened regardless. I think it is important to differentiate between a true homeopath, who treats a patient constitutionally, and some one who just treats the symptoms. As with doctors, there are good and bad homeopaths and it is important to seek out the good ones. I don’t know that it will work for everyone, but my skin is better and I am happy not to be taking methotrexate any more. Janet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ava, Homeopaths have to go through 4 years of med school just like regular doctors, and put in a year of internship in order to qualify for licensing in the state in which they want to practice. After that they take seperate homeopathy training, which most go to England to receive — at least mine did. But as I understand it takes years of training and experience for someone to become a real good homeopath, so I wouldn’t go to just anyone and I would especially be aware of layeople who sometimes try to casually prescribe (even the high potency remedies can be prepared pretty easily I guess) which is a big no no by anyone’s standards. I would highly recommend anyone to look into homeo who hasn’t, not just for P. It is much more widely practiced in Europe and is becoming more and more widespread in the U.S. I must admit I find it very interesting. Hope that helps. Mona
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she (your doctor) has put together herself?
I often see references to "Homeopathic Doctors" on this board. Can someone tell me what that really is? Is there a certification program that permits them to use the title "doctor"? What general and specific education is required, if any, to hang out a shingle? Just curious and not trying to start a fight!
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Hi Ava, Homeopaths have to go through 4 years of med school just like regular doctors, and put in a year of internship in order to qualify for licensing in the state in which they want to practice. After that they take seperate homeopathy training, which most go to England to receive — at least mine did. But as I understand it takes years of training and experience for someone to become a real good homeopath, so I wouldn’t go to just anyone and I would especially be aware of layeople who sometimes try to casually prescribe (even the high potency remedies can be prepared pretty easily I guess) which is a big no no by anyone’s standards. I would highly recommend anyone to look into homeo who hasn’t, not just for P. It is much more widely practiced in Europe and is becoming more and more widespread in the U.S. I must admit I find it very interesting. Hope that helps. Mona
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Homeopaths have to go through 4 years of med school just like regular doctors, and put in a year of internship in order to qualify for licensing in the state
Thank you for the information. I am really surprised that they attend medical schools (Are they the same medical schools traditional doctors attend, or some designed for this specific type of education and training? Same high standards of academics for admission, etc.?), because, frankly, some of the things I see people saying that the homeo docs say make it sound like they don’t even understand basic anatomy, never mind attending medical school! I am very happy right now with the established medical systems in the US and feel blessed to be able to take advantage of what I believe to be the most advanced science and technogolgy in the world, but this information makes me more inclined to take what people say about homeopathic medicine more seriously. Ava
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I really think that alternative medicine and our western medicine are slowly merging. About 5 years ago a company I worked for brought in Depok Chopra, and we invited the medical community.My job was to call the Doctors after, to get their impression. I was told off on at least every call.(very fun week for me) We had him back about 2 years ago and guess who got the same job? The response was completly reversed, with comments like he really gave me some things to think about/Brillant/etc. The more we look into these types of treatments the more the Docs have to know about this also. Someday we will blend both, and I’m glad, because I think there is place for both. arlene
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Thank you for the information. I am really surprised that they attend medical schools (Are they the same medical schools traditional doctors attend, or some designed for this specific type of education and training? Same high standards of academics for admission, etc.?), because, frankly, some of the things I see people saying that the homeo docs say make it sound like they don’t even understand basic anatomy, never mind attending medical school! I am very happy right now with the established medical systems in the US and feel blessed to be able to take advantage of what I believe to be the most advanced science and technogolgy in the world, but this information makes me more inclined to take what people say about homeopathic medicine more seriously. Ava
I know I sound like a broken record, but check out Quackwatch’s article on homeopathy at: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html And there’s also an essay from Oliver Wendell Holmes (the Justice’s father) which shows that homeopathy has been criticized for well over 150 years, too: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holmes.html I’ve gotta quote from that one, since it has at least one truly amazing thing in it (emphasis in the original): The third great doctrine of Hahnemann is the following. *Seven eighths at* least *of all chronic diseases* are produced by the existence in the system of that infectious disorder known in the language of science by the appellation of PSORA, but to the less refined portion of the community by the name of ITCH. What?!? Read on: [I]n the words of Hahnemann’s "Organon," "This Psora is the sole true and fundamental cause that produces all the other countless forms of disease, which, under the names of nervous debility, hysteria, hypochondriasis, insanity, melancholy, idiocy, madness, epilepsy, [many more diseases], loss of sense, pains of every kind, etc., appear in our pathology as so many peculiar, distinct, and independent diseases." Holmes concludes from this: For the last three centuries, if the same authority may be trusted, under the influence of the more refined personal habits which have prevailed, and the application of various external remedies which repel the affection from the skin, Psora has revealed itself in these numerous forms of internal disease, instead of appearing, as in former periods, under the aspect of an external malady. Hahnemann, it seems, would have us all believe that scoliosis, cancer, and deafness are all caused by an ‘itch’ of some sort. Of course, saying the cause is a psora is absolutely meaningless, since it doesn’t tell us what causes that itch. Itching is, for the most part, just a symptom, and not a direct cause of other disease. It turns out, according to Holmes, that the Homeopaths of the day almost all ridiculed Hahnemann for his belief in this ‘psoric theory,’ which is probably why we don’t hear much about it these days. – Dave W.
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I looked up the names of the things your doctor gave you (Bryonia Alba, etc.) and couldn’t find any information on them. Are they herbs? Oils? A mixture? Are they preparations that she (your doctor) has put together herself? Hi Linda, Where did you look these names up? These are names of standard remedies used be homeopaths way before todays drugs were engineered. You wouldn’t be able to find anything on them unless you looked into a homeopathic book. To answer your ?, yes a lot of them are herbs, but not just herbs. Homeopathy uses ingredients in miniscule amount (at around 30c potency there is not even one molecule of the actual ingredient present) which is what makes it potent. Another words the "weaker" the solution the more potent it is and the deeper it acts in the body. Eventhough I’ve read a book on it it is very hard for me to describe it to you the way I should. For more info you can check out this website: http://www.noah.cuny.edu/alternative/alternative.html (Sorry my linkage thing isn’t working!?!; actually I’m probably doing something wrong :) To finish my thought, these tiny amounts of herbs etc. are given according to the symptoms you are experiencing, it’s called the law of similars. For example for a cold sneezing and watering of the nose, a minute amount of a remedy given (I forget the name) made out of our common onion which activate the body’s own defense mechanism to get rid of the foreign substance and in the process it helps your body overcome the cold. Again, I’m not doing it justic. Also I can’t explain why it works, all I know is that it does. I’ve used a few of the remedies for different things. I’ve used teething tablets for my baby and it takes away her discomforts like that. How the tiny amounts work better than the substance in crude form is very mysterious to me. In fact the book I read even says they can’t explain why it works exactly. The great thing is that there’s no side effects. You can get low to moderate potencies at a health for store, usually around $4-5 dollars. Because the amounts are so tiny, they are OTC. The higher potencies you have to go to a homeo Doc for. If you’re really interested you should get a book on it. I bought one from Borders for $2, called "The complete book of H" by Dr. Weiner.. Anyways, before I’m called a shill (again) for homeopathy, I’ll move on to the next subject. Right now for my P, I use lots of different things, mostly Temovate and then wrap it at night. That’s what the Derm said to do and it works really good, except if I do it too many nights in a row I get bruises real bad.
Temovate used under occlusion is VERY strong stuff. Have you talked to your derm about the bruising you have experienced? Yes, he doesn’t care. Last time I went to him, he kept me waiting for 45 min, then he came in the room, didn’t even look at or talk to me. His assistance briefly "filled him in" on what I’ve been experiencing, he said two words to her and left the room. I was furious, and needless to say I am not going back to him, although I generally get similar responses from most doctors. That’s another reason why I like H better. My Doc spends hours with me eventhough she is covered with patients. Then if I have a ? I e-mail her and she gets back with me within a few days and answers my ?’s thoroughly. You’re absolutey right though. That’s why I was asking if anyone has used Primaderm on another thread, but I still haven’t got a response. It must be a new thing. I just use it veeeery sparingly on my arms and legs, and use a weaker one for the rest of my body.
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What the heck kind of NG is this? If you read my message, you’d notice I said I had so so results with it and wondered if anyone else has tried it!!! Paranoya, self destroya, bud!! Is there anyone *Intelligent* out there who has tried this thing and can tell me if they’ve had good results with it or not? I found out about it through my Homeo Dr. She asked them to send me a free sample. I tried it; the first couple of days it seemed to work pretty good, but then it just stopped doing anything. So I stopped. Of course I didn’t put it on 4 times a day like she told me to (who’s got that kind of time!). Then I tried it again a few days ago and it seem to do okay, but no miracles here. Now I’m all out, and wanted to know if I should buy another tube and try putting it on more often to see if I get better results. *LIKE I SAID* it’s kinda expensive, but I really need to stop using Temovate, been on it way too long. Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. mona
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Wow, apparently they noticed all the posts here about the before and after pictures having identical hair curls on the left shoulder. So now there are a new pair of before and after pix, cropped differently, but the stupid goofs didn’t notice the little hair curl above the right shoulder. The "Before" pic still doesn’t look like psoriasis. Photoshop is a really great app.
Doesn’t it look like the hair got smeared all along the bottom edge of the shoulder blade in the ‘before’ photo? There’s quite a dark smudge there. – Dave W.
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I went to a Homeo Doc. She first gave me Rus Tox (a homeo remedy); that didn’t work because I had too much inflamation in the joints still. So she switched me over to Bryonia Alba, which really helped me with the pain. 2 mo. later she also gave me a one time very high potency of Sulphur (another homeo remedy), followed up with this stuff called Arthoease for pain, and I continued with a higher potency of Bryonia which I still take. Without it I hurt but with it I’m fine.
Hi Mona – It’s nice to hear that you have found something to relieve your pain. I looked up the names of the things your doctor gave you (Bryonia Alba, etc.) and couldn’t find any information on them. Are they herbs? Oils? A mixture? Are they preparations that she (your doctor) has put together herself? No offense, but one of the problems I have with *alternative* medicine is the lack of standardization.You see, the names *sound* like accepted brand names (Psorenum, for example), but I was unable to find out what they are. How do you know what you are putting in/on your body is safe? Right now for my P, I use lots of different things, mostly Temovate and then wrap it at night. That’s what the Derm said to do and it works really good, except if I do it too many nights in a row I get bruises real bad.
Temovate used under occlusion is VERY strong stuff. Have you talked to your derm about the bruising you have experienced? There are many side-effects associated with the use of steroids (as you’ve already found out). Besides bruising, a couple of others are skin thinning and possible worsening (a rebound) of your P when you stop using it. – Linda
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Hi everyone, Is there somebody they have very good results with homeopathy by the treatment of psoriasis. So yes, please let me now. On this moment i am in treatment by a homeopathic doctor in Breda (the Netherlands). When i have results, i let it now in this group. Sorry for my bad english. Thank you everyone !!! Greetings, Sharky.
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Sharky, I’ve going to a homeopathic Doctor for 3 month now. It’s helped my P.A. a whole lot, but we’re still waiting for my P to clear up. Will let you know what happens. mw
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Sharky, I’ve going to a homeopathic Doctor for 3 month now. It’s helped my P.A. a whole lot, but we’re still waiting for my P to clear up. Will let you know what happens. mw
Please let us know what treatment has alleviated your p.a. (congrats) and also what you are currently doing for the p.
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–snip– Just tried a new cream my homeo Dr. gave me to try, anyone heard of Primaderm? So far I’ve had so so results with it, and it’s not cheap. I’m getting too lengthy here. Will post later; I’m new here and have a few more ?’s to ask about P.
http://www.primapharm.com/ Wow, apparently they noticed all the posts here about the before and after pictures having identical hair curls on the left shoulder. So now there are a new pair of before and after pix, cropped differently, but the stupid goofs didn’t notice the little hair curl above the right shoulder. The "Before" pic still doesn’t look like psoriasis. Photoshop is a really great app. As for MWolfe1348, I am not ready to call you a shill, but really close. Primaderm, "nature’s forgotten remedy", is certainly being marketed badly. Cheer, Jerry
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After the birth of my baby I broke out with P after a 3 yr. remission, and a bad case of PA. I’d only had a brief encounter with PA in my elbow when I first was diagnosed with P 10 yrs ago. This time it was everywhere, my right Jaw, back, toes, bottom of my feet and left hand which made it very difficult to take care of my baby. I went through some very tough times. I was desperate to find something that would take the pain away, nothing else was working. I went to a Homeo Doc. She first gave me Rus Tox (a homeo remedy); that didn’t work because I had too much inflamation in the joints still. So she switched me over to Bryonia Alba, which really helped me with the pain. 2 mo. later she also gave me a one time very high potency of Sulphur (another homeo remedy), followed up with this stuff called Arthoease for pain, and I continued with a higher potency of Bryonia which I still take. Without it I hurt but with it I’m fine. I still take my prescriptions too. But she says it will eventually go away altogether, and I am very optimistic. Just the fact that I’m not in pain like I used to be has made a dramatic difference in my life, and for that I’m grateful. As far as my P goes, we’re still trying to find the right remedy for that. We tried Psorenum but it didn’t do much. Homeo takes longer but what I like about it is that it allows you to be involved in finding the right thing for you, not like Doctors who don’t even talk to you. Right now for my P, I use lots of different things, mostly Temovate and then wrap it at night. That’s what the Derm said to do and it works really good, except if I do it too many nights in a row I get bruises real bad. So I just do it to get it under control if I’ve slaked off on putting the meds on. I also try to go tanning and get some sun when I can. Just tried a new cream my homeo Dr. gave me to try, anyone heard of Primaderm? So far I’ve had so so results with it, and it’s not cheap. I’m getting too lengthy here. Will post later; I’m new here and have a few more ?’s to ask about P. Thanks, mona
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies.
Homeopathy has absolutely no relationship to vaccines. Vaccines are based on a well-understood immune response. A normally harmless part of a disease causing organism, usually a virus, is used to prime the immune system to respond to the real thing when exposed to it. Vaccines can be dangerous. There is a very small but measureable chance of contracting polio from the polio vaccine, for example. On the other hand, they are effective. The smallpox virus has been completely eradicated through the use of the smallpox vaccine. Homeopathy is based on a pseudoscientific belief that some "essence" in a superdiluted solution has properties that can only be regarded as magical. Frequently, the solutions are so diluted that they are unlikely to contain even a single molecule of the supposedly "active" ingredient. Unlike vaccines, homeopathic "remedies" aren’t dangerous, except to the extent that they dupe someone into avoiding treatments that are actually effective. So they aren’t benign, either. Steve Barnard
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: I recommend : starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for : Dogs and Cats. : Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated : nutmeg?? : Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening : problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your : spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. : Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. Linda, This reply is really beneath you. I have learned a lot of valuable dog care skills over the years from you and for you to misrepresent Dr. Pitcairn so profoundly leaves me totally flabbergasted. First of all, Dr. Pitcairn’s initial recommendation for the treatment is immediate veterinary care. His recommended plan of treatment is the same as what my own veterinarian told me to expect should my dogs every bloat. Essentially that some cases can be relieved by passing a gastric tube but the occurrence of a torsion demands immediate surgery. He then goes on to say that should you not be able to obtain the services of a veterinarian immediately, there are several options you can try in the hope that they intervene in the course of the condition to head off the attack. One of these emergency measures, that he also states is no substitute for immediate veterinary interventon is the use of HOMEOPATHIC nutmeg. This is very much different than the nutmeg in your spice cabinet and must be purchased in advance and held in reserve for an emergency. For a good basic text on homeopathy, I recommend the reader to THE COMPLETE HOMEOPATHY HANDBOOK by Miranda Castro. It offers enough information on homeopathy to allow a novice to understand the basic concepts behind this school of medical thought. Rummaging about as you put it for a self-help measure as a prelude to veterinary care is no more worthy of your contempt than someone who rummaged about in their first aid kit for the makings of a pressure bandage as an immediate response to an injury. Both approaches are worthy in the hope that they might give a dog the time it needs to simply survive the trip to the vet. They are something that you can do for your dog in the back seat of the car while your spouse or friend drives like mad for the nearest available vet. I’m left wondering if you have ever read the Pitcairn book. If you have, I wonder what motivates you to misrepresent it so. If you haven’t, I wonder what prompted you, to put it bluntly, to offer commentary on something that you know nothing about. People expect to get sound, valid, reproducible information on this newsgroup and you failed the people who look to you for that advice by misleading them. Sign me concerned, Gail — = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This post is Copyright 1995 by Gail E. Brookhart. It may not be reproduced without prior written permission from the author. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. Minute is somewhat of an understatement. Some homeopathic preparations are so dilute that the odds are there is not a single molecule of the "active" ingredient. How could something like that work? Supposedly, the molecules impart their vibration or some other such thing to the dilutant. Sounds like a crock of crap, to me. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. At least herbal preparations have some sort of active ingredient. Plus, new medicines are being developed every day from chemicals found in herbs. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. When you’re looking for a difference, you’re likely to see one, regardless of any medicine given to the dog. Try this experiment: have a friend either give a homoeopathic medicine to your dog, or not, without telling you which one it is. Note your observations regarding your dog’s behaviour. Try this ten times, on different days, and see if there is any corellation between the dog actually receiving the snake oil, er, homeopathic medicine and the perceived behaviour changes. What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. Good advice. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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MA Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using MA drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy MA person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a MA normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications MA that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is I’ve read something that supports this. I liken it to vaccines, which stimulate the production of antibodies. It seems mutant strains are getting around vaccines for parvo, at least; for flu, in humans, but I’m not sure the same would apply to the homeopathic method. Homeopathy has been around since I was little (I’m old), but is only now gaining some respect here and there in medical circles; interesting (same for chiropracty, accupuncture, herbal medicine, and so forth). I might add that homeopathic methods are based on ingesting very minute amounts of a "poison", even compared with vaccines. MA a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this MA philosophy very nicely. That sounds right to me. MA Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout MA themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of MA these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they MA have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) Of psychics, psychologists, and faith healers, only the psychologists have a generalized academic acceptance. Those who believe academe confers respectability (and may be an indicator of usefulness) might, therefore, consult a psychologist, but not a psychic nor a faith healer, since the latter two don’t have long-established Old Boys clubs <hehe MA While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of MA licensing/credential program would force them to become properly MA trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in MA the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? If you want to set up as a homeopath (looks unlikely), I suppose you’d have to investigate. I suppose the Homeopath’s Old Boys Clubs have their certification processes. You could probably set up as a psychic or a faith healer more easily; if you tried to set up as a psychologist, that might be difficult unless you had academic credentials – of course, those, too, can be manufactured. MA I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in MA the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." Quite so. You could always add a homeopathic remedy, and then observe to see if you see any difference. That’s what I did, several times, and there may be a subtle difference. MA People that want such MA quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so MA they don’t have to teach them self control. This is undoubtedly too broad a brush to be helpful. It does, though, help to be always critical and questioning about anything touted as a remedy, especially if it’s said to do the whole job by itself. (Ritalin may be a poor analogy; diet may be more important for those with Attention Defecit Disorder, and even that may be insufficient to solve all problems.) What I’m saying is, all the standard, tested, ways of managing a dog’s life should be taken into consideration first, and anything that’s intended to be ingested should be given only with the whole program of training or preservation of health kept in mind – and used appropriately, with a critical attitude. — Carol Sun 19-May-96 02:52 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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I"d probably go along with the poster’s comments about homeopathy, but saying the British Royal Family uses it for their dogs is -not- a real commendation. That family isn’t exactly red-hot at working things out on any level! Jane Webb Mudpie and Moon
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The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. Oh, well that’s one GREAT endorsement, there. Right. Alan Harder & Brandy the Wire Fox Terrier Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines. I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he’s gone.
Actually, that could explain a lot about what I’ve seen in the press about them. Steve Barnard
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quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Yay, Christine! Jane Webb Mud and Moonpie
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My cousin and her daughter SWEAR by Rescue Remedy. Gave me some. Tried it once or twice (found it a little hard to determine when I needed it) and saw NO reaction atall. NONE. But then maybe I am not in tune with my inner whatever. I wouldn’t THINK of giving any to my dogs — their inner puppies are just fine, thank you. Jane Webb Moon and MUdpie and their inner puppies and Mandolin the Cat (who, at almost 15, has no inner kitten)
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Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked.
And just for the record — count me as one of those who tried Rescue Remedy for more than 6 months — in conjunction with training, socialization, and everything else. (And 3 other "Bach Flower Remedies" that were specifically "prescribed" for my dog.) Snake oil. Pure snake oil. The most helpful thing for my dog was the muzzle — because it allowed ME to act differently around her. If giving your dog snake oil allows YOU to act differently to your dog — perhaps enjoy your dog’s true personality b/c you think you’ve changed it — so be it. & Edric, the Wonder Mutt, Kati, the world’s hairiest Akita,__ /|__ Joy "don’t chew that!", the Aussie sheep-butt puppy / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who don’t like to be herded / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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MN Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic No need for the attack, but it IS clear she has no use for homeopathic remedies. I believe the effects are rather subtle, and the remedies need to be used with care and attention. Of course, used without some training alongside, they won’t solve training problems. MN preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also MN not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets Thanks for this observation. MN starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for <making notes MN her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is MN still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I Ha! MN flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as MN humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler MN take it! <chuckle I use Rescue Remedy (or Five Flower Essence) on ME first, and on my dog, second. I tried it first, but immediately gave it to my dog also; I smacked my lips over it, to try to tempt my dog into licking it (straight) from my palm. He did He REALLY didn’t care for it, but I gave him a drink of water. Half an hour later, he behaved well when the groomer clipped his nails. I think he was about 7 months old at the time; now he’s 13 months, and I can clip his nails myself – it took me many, many months of handling (mostly, brushing and TTouch), to get him to the point where he’d let me clip his nails (without jerking his paws around). I still have to hold him down, though. My purpose here is to reinforce the point you imply: that the effects of homeopathic remedies may be barely, or even not, noticeable to our somewhat crude senses. However, if I’m paying careful attention, I CAN tell that I’ve taken Rescue Remedy, and I can see it, ever so subtly, in my dog as well. He’s a very excitable Australian Terrier, and it will take him quite a while to mature and lose the heavy edge of his excitability (he’s my fourth, so I know pretty well what to expect). — Carol, with Australian Terrier Kaliko Thunderpaws; Sat 18-May-96; 21:03 — * RoseReader 2.52B P001545 Entered at [BB&C]
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs.
I have seen herbalist touted as homeopaths. And I would be as likely to shake chicken bones around the yard to ward off evil spirits as I would to trust the health of my dog to such hope-and-promise remedies. phosphorous as a Homeopathic preparation. Homeopathic just means that the pet/person being treated is done so using drugs that would cause the symptoms being experienced in a healthy person. So a hyper dog would be given medication that would cause a normal dog to be hyper. And a sluggish dog would be given medications that would cause sluggishness in an otherwise normal dog. Homeopathy is a philosophy of medicine, and herbal treatments would combine with this philosophy very nicely. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option.
Okay, here’s a question for you. Here in the US we have people that tout themselves as doggy psychics, psychologists, and faith healers. All of these individuals are able to bill for their services whether or not they have recieved any formal training in the subject (Like there is any!) While there is training available for homeopaths, what type of licensing/credential program would force them to become properly trained? What would prevent me from setting up shop as a homeopath in the US besides my own personal standard of ethics? And as for the bunch of lunatics that comprise the British Royal Family, I don’t think I would want them as a poster family for ANY product/service that I was trying to promote. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
I think that a high energy dog like a setter would benefit from a romp in the park as much, if not more than any "remedy." People that want such quick fix remedies are the same ones that dope their kids on Ritalin so they don’t have to teach them self control. Christine
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets to learn homeopathy. The British Royal Family uses homeopathy as its primary health care modality. There is plenty of written material with which to educate oneself about this health care option. I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats. Also, my Tervuren are just as hyper as I expect them to be, but when my Re had a bad reaction to her shots, there WERE changes in her behavior. We addressed those problems with homeopathy, and she is still a wild and crazy dog, just not a hysterical and unhappy one. I agree that people should research their breeds, but it would be callo9us neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Morgaine NiDana
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I recommend starting with Dr.Pitcairn’s Complete Guide to Natural Health Care for Dogs and Cats.
Isn’t this the useful book that recommends giving a dog who’s bloated nutmeg?? Bloat — gastric dilatation-volvulus — is a serious, life-threatening problem, and even the minute or two that you spend searching your spice cabinets for nutmeg could cost your dog his life. Yep — that’s a GREAT book you’re recommending. & Edric the Wonder Mutt, Kati the world’s hairiest Akita, __ /|__ Joy, the new Aussie pup, and Gypsy at the Bridge / ___/ ^_/ and Battlecat & Cringer, who think all dogs are dumb / | (oh, yeah, there might be a husband under all the hair) / — / "If I don’t vacuum for another year, maybe I’ll finally || || have wall-to-wall carpeting!"
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it! Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
Once again, I’ll say that homeopathy is utter quackery. If you look into it you’ll find that it’s based on the most gullible, unscientific babble you can imagine. Homeopathic "remedies" can have an anectodal effect in humans because of the placebo effect, but dogs just aren’t smart enough (or gullible enough) to fall for this. Steve Barnard
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Please don’t be confused by Linda Oleksuk’s ignorant posts. Homeopathic preparations are not herbal or nutritional supplements. They are also not psychiatric drugs. There are specialized training programs for vets
So what are they? Everything I have ever read about them says they are dilutions. Well, if they are dilutions, what are they dilutions OF? neglect to let an ill or unhappy dog go without treatment. Finally, the flower essence preparation "Rescue Remedy" is useful for pets as well as humans, although at shows I am more likely to suggest that the handler take it!
Uh huh. I’ve known plenty of people who have tried Rescue Remedy in an effort to mend behavior problems. Not a one has worked. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Think I’m a real piece of work for saying that you shouldn’t breed your lame, out of standard, 8 month old puppy? Send me email for my web page.
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Hi Janet, I would like to talk with you about your experience with Homeopathy. I don’t seem to be getting any results from Psorenum, and my H Doc said to stop until the next time I see her. She has not ever objected to my continuing with the alleopathics, but now I’m wondering if it may be antidoting the remedies. I hope not, because I’m not the suffering kind (which as I understand is part of the philosophy — you don’t relieve the symptoms, you know…let them get better on their after a short period of exasperation). Well being kinda skeptical still, I wonder exactly how short is this period? Did you have to do that, and if yes what was your experience. I’ve had fabulous results with my PA, if I could only get the same results with my P, I would be soooooo happy. Your input would be greatly appreciated. mona
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I was hoping someone would address the claim that homeopaths attend medical school. I thought they were more along the lines of chiropracters, and went to their own "medical" school. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.) Are they "real" doctors? Dr. Amy (Sociologist, Specializing in Diseases of the Organizational Group)
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I gave up on dermatologists years ago and have been treating my psoriasis homeopathically since then. It has it’s ups and downs, but is consistently better, although that may have happened regardless. I think it is important to differentiate between a true homeopath, who treats a patient constitutionally, and some one who just treats the symptoms. As with doctors, there are good and bad homeopaths and it is important to seek out the good ones. I don’t know that it will work for everyone, but my skin is better and I am happy not to be taking methotrexate any more. Janet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Ava, Homeopaths have to go through 4 years of med school just like regular doctors, and put in a year of internship in order to qualify for licensing in the state in which they want to practice. After that they take seperate homeopathy training, which most go to England to receive — at least mine did. But as I understand it takes years of training and experience for someone to become a real good homeopath, so I wouldn’t go to just anyone and I would especially be aware of layeople who sometimes try to casually prescribe (even the high potency remedies can be prepared pretty easily I guess) which is a big no no by anyone’s standards. I would highly recommend anyone to look into homeo who hasn’t, not just for P. It is much more widely practiced in Europe and is becoming more and more widespread in the U.S. I must admit I find it very interesting. Hope that helps. Mona
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she (your doctor) has put together herself?
I often see references to "Homeopathic Doctors" on this board. Can someone tell me what that really is? Is there a certification program that permits them to use the title "doctor"? What general and specific education is required, if any, to hang out a shingle? Just curious and not trying to start a fight!
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Hi Ava, Homeopaths have to go through 4 years of med school just like regular doctors, and put in a year of internship in order to qualify for licensing in the state in which they want to practice. After that they take seperate homeopathy training, which most go to England to receive — at least mine did. But as I understand it takes years of training and experience for someone to become a real good homeopath, so I wouldn’t go to just anyone and I would especially be aware of layeople who sometimes try to casually prescribe (even the high potency remedies can be prepared pretty easily I guess) which is a big no no by anyone’s standards. I would highly recommend anyone to look into homeo who hasn’t, not just for P. It is much more widely practiced in Europe and is becoming more and more widespread in the U.S. I must admit I find it very interesting. Hope that helps. Mona
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Homeopaths have to go through 4 years of med school just like regular doctors, and put in a year of internship in order to qualify for licensing in the state
Thank you for the information. I am really surprised that they attend medical schools (Are they the same medical schools traditional doctors attend, or some designed for this specific type of education and training? Same high standards of academics for admission, etc.?), because, frankly, some of the things I see people saying that the homeo docs say make it sound like they don’t even understand basic anatomy, never mind attending medical school! I am very happy right now with the established medical systems in the US and feel blessed to be able to take advantage of what I believe to be the most advanced science and technogolgy in the world, but this information makes me more inclined to take what people say about homeopathic medicine more seriously. Ava
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I really think that alternative medicine and our western medicine are slowly merging. About 5 years ago a company I worked for brought in Depok Chopra, and we invited the medical community.My job was to call the Doctors after, to get their impression. I was told off on at least every call.(very fun week for me) We had him back about 2 years ago and guess who got the same job? The response was completly reversed, with comments like he really gave me some things to think about/Brillant/etc. The more we look into these types of treatments the more the Docs have to know about this also. Someday we will blend both, and I’m glad, because I think there is place for both. arlene
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Thank you for the information. I am really surprised that they attend medical schools (Are they the same medical schools traditional doctors attend, or some designed for this specific type of education and training? Same high standards of academics for admission, etc.?), because, frankly, some of the things I see people saying that the homeo docs say make it sound like they don’t even understand basic anatomy, never mind attending medical school! I am very happy right now with the established medical systems in the US and feel blessed to be able to take advantage of what I believe to be the most advanced science and technogolgy in the world, but this information makes me more inclined to take what people say about homeopathic medicine more seriously. Ava
I know I sound like a broken record, but check out Quackwatch’s article on homeopathy at: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html And there’s also an essay from Oliver Wendell Holmes (the Justice’s father) which shows that homeopathy has been criticized for well over 150 years, too: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holmes.html I’ve gotta quote from that one, since it has at least one truly amazing thing in it (emphasis in the original): The third great doctrine of Hahnemann is the following. *Seven eighths at* least *of all chronic diseases* are produced by the existence in the system of that infectious disorder known in the language of science by the appellation of PSORA, but to the less refined portion of the community by the name of ITCH. What?!? Read on: [I]n the words of Hahnemann’s "Organon," "This Psora is the sole true and fundamental cause that produces all the other countless forms of disease, which, under the names of nervous debility, hysteria, hypochondriasis, insanity, melancholy, idiocy, madness, epilepsy, [many more diseases], loss of sense, pains of every kind, etc., appear in our pathology as so many peculiar, distinct, and independent diseases." Holmes concludes from this: For the last three centuries, if the same authority may be trusted, under the influence of the more refined personal habits which have prevailed, and the application of various external remedies which repel the affection from the skin, Psora has revealed itself in these numerous forms of internal disease, instead of appearing, as in former periods, under the aspect of an external malady. Hahnemann, it seems, would have us all believe that scoliosis, cancer, and deafness are all caused by an ‘itch’ of some sort. Of course, saying the cause is a psora is absolutely meaningless, since it doesn’t tell us what causes that itch. Itching is, for the most part, just a symptom, and not a direct cause of other disease. It turns out, according to Holmes, that the Homeopaths of the day almost all ridiculed Hahnemann for his belief in this ‘psoric theory,’ which is probably why we don’t hear much about it these days. – Dave W.
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I looked up the names of the things your doctor gave you (Bryonia Alba, etc.) and couldn’t find any information on them. Are they herbs? Oils? A mixture? Are they preparations that she (your doctor) has put together herself? Hi Linda, Where did you look these names up? These are names of standard remedies used be homeopaths way before todays drugs were engineered. You wouldn’t be able to find anything on them unless you looked into a homeopathic book. To answer your ?, yes a lot of them are herbs, but not just herbs. Homeopathy uses ingredients in miniscule amount (at around 30c potency there is not even one molecule of the actual ingredient present) which is what makes it potent. Another words the "weaker" the solution the more potent it is and the deeper it acts in the body. Eventhough I’ve read a book on it it is very hard for me to describe it to you the way I should. For more info you can check out this website: http://www.noah.cuny.edu/alternative/alternative.html (Sorry my linkage thing isn’t working!?!; actually I’m probably doing something wrong :) To finish my thought, these tiny amounts of herbs etc. are given according to the symptoms you are experiencing, it’s called the law of similars. For example for a cold sneezing and watering of the nose, a minute amount of a remedy given (I forget the name) made out of our common onion which activate the body’s own defense mechanism to get rid of the foreign substance and in the process it helps your body overcome the cold. Again, I’m not doing it justic. Also I can’t explain why it works, all I know is that it does. I’ve used a few of the remedies for different things. I’ve used teething tablets for my baby and it takes away her discomforts like that. How the tiny amounts work better than the substance in crude form is very mysterious to me. In fact the book I read even says they can’t explain why it works exactly. The great thing is that there’s no side effects. You can get low to moderate potencies at a health for store, usually around $4-5 dollars. Because the amounts are so tiny, they are OTC. The higher potencies you have to go to a homeo Doc for. If you’re really interested you should get a book on it. I bought one from Borders for $2, called "The complete book of H" by Dr. Weiner.. Anyways, before I’m called a shill (again) for homeopathy, I’ll move on to the next subject. Right now for my P, I use lots of different things, mostly Temovate and then wrap it at night. That’s what the Derm said to do and it works really good, except if I do it too many nights in a row I get bruises real bad.
Temovate used under occlusion is VERY strong stuff. Have you talked to your derm about the bruising you have experienced? Yes, he doesn’t care. Last time I went to him, he kept me waiting for 45 min, then he came in the room, didn’t even look at or talk to me. His assistance briefly "filled him in" on what I’ve been experiencing, he said two words to her and left the room. I was furious, and needless to say I am not going back to him, although I generally get similar responses from most doctors. That’s another reason why I like H better. My Doc spends hours with me eventhough she is covered with patients. Then if I have a ? I e-mail her and she gets back with me within a few days and answers my ?’s thoroughly. You’re absolutey right though. That’s why I was asking if anyone has used Primaderm on another thread, but I still haven’t got a response. It must be a new thing. I just use it veeeery sparingly on my arms and legs, and use a weaker one for the rest of my body.
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What the heck kind of NG is this? If you read my message, you’d notice I said I had so so results with it and wondered if anyone else has tried it!!! Paranoya, self destroya, bud!! Is there anyone *Intelligent* out there who has tried this thing and can tell me if they’ve had good results with it or not? I found out about it through my Homeo Dr. She asked them to send me a free sample. I tried it; the first couple of days it seemed to work pretty good, but then it just stopped doing anything. So I stopped. Of course I didn’t put it on 4 times a day like she told me to (who’s got that kind of time!). Then I tried it again a few days ago and it seem to do okay, but no miracles here. Now I’m all out, and wanted to know if I should buy another tube and try putting it on more often to see if I get better results. *LIKE I SAID* it’s kinda expensive, but I really need to stop using Temovate, been on it way too long. Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. mona
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Wow, apparently they noticed all the posts here about the before and after pictures having identical hair curls on the left shoulder. So now there are a new pair of before and after pix, cropped differently, but the stupid goofs didn’t notice the little hair curl above the right shoulder. The "Before" pic still doesn’t look like psoriasis. Photoshop is a really great app.
Doesn’t it look like the hair got smeared all along the bottom edge of the shoulder blade in the ‘before’ photo? There’s quite a dark smudge there. – Dave W.
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I went to a Homeo Doc. She first gave me Rus Tox (a homeo remedy); that didn’t work because I had too much inflamation in the joints still. So she switched me over to Bryonia Alba, which really helped me with the pain. 2 mo. later she also gave me a one time very high potency of Sulphur (another homeo remedy), followed up with this stuff called Arthoease for pain, and I continued with a higher potency of Bryonia which I still take. Without it I hurt but with it I’m fine.
Hi Mona – It’s nice to hear that you have found something to relieve your pain. I looked up the names of the things your doctor gave you (Bryonia Alba, etc.) and couldn’t find any information on them. Are they herbs? Oils? A mixture? Are they preparations that she (your doctor) has put together herself? No offense, but one of the problems I have with *alternative* medicine is the lack of standardization.You see, the names *sound* like accepted brand names (Psorenum, for example), but I was unable to find out what they are. How do you know what you are putting in/on your body is safe? Right now for my P, I use lots of different things, mostly Temovate and then wrap it at night. That’s what the Derm said to do and it works really good, except if I do it too many nights in a row I get bruises real bad.
Temovate used under occlusion is VERY strong stuff. Have you talked to your derm about the bruising you have experienced? There are many side-effects associated with the use of steroids (as you’ve already found out). Besides bruising, a couple of others are skin thinning and possible worsening (a rebound) of your P when you stop using it. – Linda
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Hi everyone, Is there somebody they have very good results with homeopathy by the treatment of psoriasis. So yes, please let me now. On this moment i am in treatment by a homeopathic doctor in Breda (the Netherlands). When i have results, i let it now in this group. Sorry for my bad english. Thank you everyone !!! Greetings, Sharky.
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Sharky, I’ve going to a homeopathic Doctor for 3 month now. It’s helped my P.A. a whole lot, but we’re still waiting for my P to clear up. Will let you know what happens. mw
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Sharky, I’ve going to a homeopathic Doctor for 3 month now. It’s helped my P.A. a whole lot, but we’re still waiting for my P to clear up. Will let you know what happens. mw
Please let us know what treatment has alleviated your p.a. (congrats) and also what you are currently doing for the p.
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–snip– Just tried a new cream my homeo Dr. gave me to try, anyone heard of Primaderm? So far I’ve had so so results with it, and it’s not cheap. I’m getting too lengthy here. Will post later; I’m new here and have a few more ?’s to ask about P.
http://www.primapharm.com/ Wow, apparently they noticed all the posts here about the before and after pictures having identical hair curls on the left shoulder. So now there are a new pair of before and after pix, cropped differently, but the stupid goofs didn’t notice the little hair curl above the right shoulder. The "Before" pic still doesn’t look like psoriasis. Photoshop is a really great app. As for MWolfe1348, I am not ready to call you a shill, but really close. Primaderm, "nature’s forgotten remedy", is certainly being marketed badly. Cheer, Jerry
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After the birth of my baby I broke out with P after a 3 yr. remission, and a bad case of PA. I’d only had a brief encounter with PA in my elbow when I first was diagnosed with P 10 yrs ago. This time it was everywhere, my right Jaw, back, toes, bottom of my feet and left hand which made it very difficult to take care of my baby. I went through some very tough times. I was desperate to find something that would take the pain away, nothing else was working. I went to a Homeo Doc. She first gave me Rus Tox (a homeo remedy); that didn’t work because I had too much inflamation in the joints still. So she switched me over to Bryonia Alba, which really helped me with the pain. 2 mo. later she also gave me a one time very high potency of Sulphur (another homeo remedy), followed up with this stuff called Arthoease for pain, and I continued with a higher potency of Bryonia which I still take. Without it I hurt but with it I’m fine. I still take my prescriptions too. But she says it will eventually go away altogether, and I am very optimistic. Just the fact that I’m not in pain like I used to be has made a dramatic difference in my life, and for that I’m grateful. As far as my P goes, we’re still trying to find the right remedy for that. We tried Psorenum but it didn’t do much. Homeo takes longer but what I like about it is that it allows you to be involved in finding the right thing for you, not like Doctors who don’t even talk to you. Right now for my P, I use lots of different things, mostly Temovate and then wrap it at night. That’s what the Derm said to do and it works really good, except if I do it too many nights in a row I get bruises real bad. So I just do it to get it under control if I’ve slaked off on putting the meds on. I also try to go tanning and get some sun when I can. Just tried a new cream my homeo Dr. gave me to try, anyone heard of Primaderm? So far I’ve had so so results with it, and it’s not cheap. I’m getting too lengthy here. Will post later; I’m new here and have a few more ?’s to ask about P. Thanks, mona
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I’m looking for a software of Homeopathy. Can someone help?
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Chiltern Hills Wellness writes one, but they have no address on the CD. David Bonello – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a software of Homeopathy. Can someone help?
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine. I think it plays an important role and when utilized properly will benefit many patients.
hehe I think you’re joking. hd
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine.
Have had lots of little successes with it, treating myself and my pets, especially for colds, flus, conjunctivitis, dental pain. Unfortunately, I have not found a single remedy to help me during an asthma attack.
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine. I think it plays an important role and when utilized properly will benefit many patients. Oh, that explains everything. Thanks. Why didn’t I think of that.
Hey, there ya go. I posted a reply to your post about the person who said *Hulda was wrong* but it didn’t get here, guess I must have forgot to click on just let me say that you made a judgement from the words, *Hulda was wrong* nothing more. So now I must say to you just what you have stated here. We do seem to trip ourselves up! We have a beautiful bit of snow this A.M. my hubby says it is so pretty, he kidding. Now AF get out in that kitchen and get busy! Jan Must – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -be all that improper utilization that explains the mostly unconvincing scientific track record for water, er, homeopathic solutions. AF
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine. Thanks.
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine.
I think it plays an important role and when utilized properly will benefit many patients.
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John, I’d tell you the name of your mental disorder, but it is a violation of the group policy to do so.
So is abusive flaming but that never stops you. John
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I know a homeopath curing cancer but you can’t really tell anyone as it is illegal for him to do so.
John, it is not illegal for someone to cure cancer. It is (or at least should be) illegal to SAY you can cure cancer when you can’t. There is a difference. By the way, nominations for the 2001 Nobel Prizes have to be in by 1 February. A cure for cancer is a certain winner, so get those forms filled in. Mad – Quintessence of the Loon http://www.ratbags.com/loon Bad – The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Sad – Full Canvas Jacket http://www.ratbags.com/ranters
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I just saw this on a list I am on. I am too tired to check it out, maybe someone else would like to?? Jan The NIH is funding a clinic in India that has had proven (by NIH preliminary study)success with treating cancer patients in India with homeopathy. I saw the article on cancercure or cancercured here on egroups a month or two ago, search for homeopathy for cancer on both of those sites and you should find it.
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I just saw this on a list I am on. I am too tired to check it out, maybe someone else would like to?? Jan The NIH is funding a clinic in India that has had proven (by NIH preliminary study)success with treating cancer patients in India with homeopathy. I saw the article on cancercure or cancercured here on egroups a month or two ago, search for homeopathy for cancer on both of those sites and you should find it.
I know a homeopath curing cancer but you can’t really tell anyone as it is illegal for him to do so. John
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John, I’d tell you the name of your mental disorder, but it is a violation of the group policy to do so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just saw this on a list I am on. I am too tired to check it out, maybe someone else would like to?? Jan The NIH is funding a clinic in India that has had proven (by NIH preliminary study)success with treating cancer patients in India with homeopathy. I saw the article on cancercure or cancercured here on egroups a month or two ago, search for homeopathy for cancer on both of those sites and you should find it. I know a homeopath curing cancer but you can’t really tell anyone as it is illegal for him to do so. John
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Macrobiotics is a grain based diet with the addition of beans, vegetables, and sea vegatables and complimented by fruits and occaisional fish. Actually, this is not macrobiotics, Bernie. Macrobiotics is not a diet, it is a way of life. As part of this ‘way’, many – perhaps most – practioners believe that grains should be the principle staple because it is near the mid point of yin and yang foods. An equally important principle is that you should only consume what is grown in season, organically and in the region in which you live. As you point out, none of this is very scientific and there are vastly superior approaches to constructing a diet. In point of fact many macrobiotic practioners shun fruit (mentioned in your description) as being too ‘yin’, and consider meat a cardinal sin — Xander Steevensz was raised ‘macrobiotically’ from the age of 14 and wrote about this in an interesting article in Solstice. You might want to read it. It gets even more complex when you introduce the factor of climate – certain foods are ‘ok’ in cold climates that wouldn’t be ‘ok’ in hot, and there are other considerations. Then of course, some practioners also believe you can eat anything as long as you eat ‘macrobiotically’, so it’s important to define your populations here too. However, I think you are going to have a difficult time defending your claim that you can’t evaluate certain types of vegetarianism by examining macrobiotic populations. family. Anyone who says macrobiotics promotes a diet solely of brown rice as its ultimate goal is either ignorant of the facts or is someone with an axe to grind. You tell us which category you fall in. Well, as I pointed out in my original article – it’s important to be clear about what type of vegetarianism we are talking about. Some forms are clearly harmful and some are not – I believe I used the 7th Day Advents as an example of the beneficial effects of vegetarianism. It does absolutely no good for a person who is seeking information about vegetarianism to say ‘Sure, go for it!’ without finding out what that particular individual means when they say ‘vegetarianism’, so I tried to give both sides of the picture by presenting the Advents and a group of zen macrobioticists. Considering that you have just made even more errors (including the grevious one of identifying macrobiotics as a ‘diet’) it really would be best if you confined yourself to homeopathic promotions and left the other discussions for the well informed. Or you could become more informed about macrobiotics than you are. That would be even better. You might be interested to know that I was raised as a vegetarian and (except for a brief rebellious period during my teens) still consider myself a vegetarian. Since I also consume fish and dairy products (considerably more than most macrobiotic practioners would), you might consider me an ovo-lacto-piscatarian. sdb —
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Sorry, this is again incorrect. As one progresses through the 10 dietary stages on your road to a happier life you eliminate desserts, fruits, salads, animal foods, soup and vegetables etc., etc. with grains. Infants of parents on such a diet are fed kokoh, which is deficient in many vitamins and minerals.
Are you sure about this? As I recall, many years ago when I was on the macrobiotic diet, you start out at 100% grains, then progress down into the lower levels as long as the symptoms of "sanpaku" do not return. You start out eating nothing but brown rice or other whole grains for two weeks. The book which taught me about macrobiotics was _You_Are_All_Sanpaku_ by George Ohsawa, which is the book which touched off the wave of interest in macrobiotics back in the late 1960’s.
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There are a few macrobiotic populations that eat a more restrictive diet that can lead to deficiencies. That is unfortunate, in my opinion. That seemed to be more common in Boston (in my experience), but the large majority of other places have "Americanized" the diet in such a way that it very closely resembles a healthy vegetarian diet. Yes, I agree – most present day macrobiotic practioners have departed from the original macrobiotic diet as described by Kushi and Oshawa to the point that it no longer represents a health threat or has much to do with ‘macrobiotic’ diet as promulgated by its founders. You seem to have gotten your information from newspaper clippings, studies on individual populations (who have eaten a very restrictive diet), or one the NCAHF’s misinformation campaigns as opposed to actual personal experience. Wrong again, Mark. I’ve read several books on macrobiotics by the original proponents and I’ve also attended a weekend macrobiotic retreat where I could sample the diet for myself. Aside from being one of the most miserable culinary experiences of my life I found the diet nutritionally inferior to scientifically based diets such as Pritikin. Furthermore, animal protein was not visible to me, at least during that retreat. I also attended the lectures on macrobiotics given while I was at the retreat so I’m certainly reasonably well informed on the topic. There is no way that any knowledgable person can claim that macrobiotics is not essentially a vegatarian diet because some fish is consumed. To equate the amount of fish consumed to the amount of beef consumed by someone who eats only at McDonalds (as Bernie Simon did) shows the grossest imaginable ignorance. I can’t believe you agree with that comment. I understand that it is your duty as a professional skeptic to attack everything related to holistic health, but please limit your attacks to things that you actually know something about. I criticized Simon because he is obviously ignorant of macrobiotics. Unlike you and Simon, I have not speculated on your motives or your personalities. What is it about certain members of the holistic community that makes them unable to focus on the facts at hand? sdb —
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Anyone who says macrobiotics promotes a diet solely of brown rice as its ultimate goal is either ignorant of the facts or is someone with an axe to grind. You are, of course, referring to George Ozawa here… so I must agree JB.
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(John Badanes) writes:
*You*, Bernie Simon, have a hard time defending *macrobiotics* because you feel it is not scientifically sound? ‘Scuse me? **TILT** This is to say that you have been defending *homeopathy* all this time on the basis that it rests on firm scientific underpinnings? As Tina Turner would say, "What’s science got to do with it?" Yes, I believe homeopathy is scientifically sound and I’ve cited the evidence supporting homeopathy in the past. Homeopathy is a scientific theory of medicine because it explains the actions of medicines in terms of a few general principles and justifies these principles on experience, not tradition or authority. Of course, not all scientific theories are true. Phlogiston is one example of a scientific theory that has proven false. But homeopathy has nearly 200 years of clinical experience to demonstrate its effectiveness. It first came to widespread attention as a result of its effectiveness in treating cholera. There are also a number of double blind studies of homeopathic medicines. A pamphlet from Boiron that I have says that over 100 double blind studies have shown homeopathic medicines to be effective. Do you know of any allopathic medical procedure that has over 100 double blind studies demonstrating its effectiveness? —
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Bernie Simon writes: I have a hard time defending macrobiotics, because I don’t feel that it is scientifically sound. *You*, Bernie Simon, have a hard time defending *macrobiotics* because you feel it is not scientifically sound? ‘Scuse me? **TILT** This is to say that you have been defending *homeopathy* all this time on the basis that it rests on firm scientific underpinnings? As Tina Turner would say, "What’s science got to do with it?" JB.
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nutrient deficient in the vegan diet is vitamin B12. The other nutrients that are normally obtained from animal products can be found in vegetables as well and one just has to modify one’s diet to include adequate amounts of those nutrients. Since you eat eggs, you don’t have to be particularly concerned about B12. I don’t remember who the original poster was, but it is not correct to lump all ‘vegetarian’ diets in with the world ‘healthy’ – the specific study was on some extreme practioners of the Zen Macrobiotic Diet. There are some special issues for pregnant women and children — if you are concerned I would advise you to consult a registered dietician.
1.) The orginal poster was me!!! You are right, it is not correct to lump all vegetarian diets in with the world healthy but when one says "a vegetarian diet is healthful" those of us with common sense (and no axe to grind) don’t assume one is talking about extreme vegetarian diets. Let’s keep some common sense in these discussions. 2.) I’m sorry if I misled you, but I was not asking for advice. My comments were tongue-in-cheek. I am not concerned about my diet but was just trying to understand why *you* were trying to characterize all vegan diets as harmful by citing a study that (as we now all know) dealt only with an extreme diet. Furthermore, why is it that when scientists finally decide to study vegetarianism they pick such an extreme form of it to study. Have they no common sense! Or are they just using (abusing) science to grind axes? I would be interested in seeing the studies you refer to if you can give me the citations. They don’t apply to your case – if you are still interested drop me an email note and I’ll look them up for you.
3.) I am interested in seeing the studies because I don’t think they are valid. You could e-mail the citations to me but I would rather you post them to the group (if you feel they can stand up to scrutiny!!!). Karen Allen
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Sorry, this is again incorrect. As one progresses through the 10 dietary stages on your road to a happier life you eliminate desserts, fruits, salads, animal foods, soup and vegetables etc., etc. with grains. Infants of parents on such a diet are fed kokoh, which is deficient in many vitamins and minerals. In all stages products such as fish are regarded as condiments, and their use is condoned only in the early ones. It is a particularly unhealthy and un-nutritious diet and it will also not cure you of cancer. Please inform yourself about the actual practices of macrobiotics before you comment on them.
Scott, You should try to take your own advice and *inform* yourself about the actual practices of macrobiotics before you comment on them. You obviously no nothing about how it is *currently* practiced by the large majority of people who have studied its principles. The large majority of people eat a diet very similar to a healthy vegetarian diet. Most East West Centers that I’ve been to teach people to eat a diet based on grains, vegetables, fruits, legumes, sea vegetables, etc. Some people eat some fish, others don’t. I’ve eaten quite a bit of fresh fruit at other East West Centers. There are a few macrobiotic populations that eat a more restrictive diet that can lead to deficiencies. That is unfortunate, in my opinion. That seemed to be more common in Boston (in my experience), but the large majority of other places have "Americanized" the diet in such a way that it very closely resembles a healthy vegetarian diet. In the 1960s and 1970s, there was quite a bit of nonesensical dietetic information. There was Dr. Stare’s support of sugar and white bread for health. There were vegetarians stubbornly trying to live off of white rice and vegetables. And there was George Ohsawa’s "higher" level diets. Fortunately, most health conscious people have progressed towards a healthier, more practical natural foods diet, including people who practice macrobiotics. You seem to have gotten your information from newspaper clippings, studies on individual populations (who have eaten a very restrictive diet), or one the NCAHF’s misinformation campaigns as opposed to actual personal experience. I understand that it is your duty as a professional skeptic to attack everything related to holistic health, but please limit your attacks to things that you actually know something about. – Mark P.S. – I have read in the American Medical Association Family Medical Guide that "In general, the macrobiotic diet is a healthful way of eating."
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First, in your previous post, you talked about vegetarian diets being unhealthy and didn’t mention macrobiotics. If you specifically meant to talk about macrobiotics, you should have mentioned it specifically. Otherwise, people are misled by your posting. Second, I have a hard time defending macrobiotics, because I don’t feel that it is scientifically sound. Still, peopale desrve a better picture of it than you present in your caricature. When you say that: "As one progresses through the 10 dietary stages on your road to a happier life you eliminate desserts, fruits, salads, animal foods, soup and vegetables etc., etc. with grains." You are presenting a false picture of macrobiotic practice based on a misreading of one of Michio Kushi’s writings. Macrobiotics is a grain based diet with the addition of beans, vegetables, and sea vegatables and complimented by fruits and occaisional fish. It avoids other animal products and vegetables from the nightshade family. Anyone who says macrobiotics promotes a diet solely of brown rice as its ultimate goal is either ignorant of the facts or is someone with an axe to grind. You tell us which category you fall in. —
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Vegetarian diets are perfectly healthy and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Some are, some are not. Mecrobiotics is not a vegetarian diet, since it includes occaisional fish, and is not typical of the diet that most vegetarians eat. You cannot draw conclusions about the healthfulness of vegetarianism by studying macrobiotic children any more than you can study it by interviewing people who visit the local McDonalds. Sorry, this is again incorrect. As one progresses through the 10 dietary stages on your road to a happier life you eliminate desserts, fruits, salads, animal foods, soup and vegetables etc., etc. with grains. Infants of parents on such a diet are fed kokoh, which is deficient in many vitamins and minerals. In all stages products such as fish are regarded as condiments, and their use is condoned only in the early ones. It is a particularly unhealthy and un-nutritious diet and it will also not cure you of cancer. Please inform yourself about the actual practices of macrobiotics before you comment on them. sdb —
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nutrient deficient in the vegan diet is vitamin B12. The other nutrients that are normally obtained from animal products can be found in vegetables as well and one just has to modify one’s diet to include adequate amounts of those nutrients. Since you eat eggs, you don’t have to be particularly concerned about B12. I don’t remember who the original poster was, but it is not correct to lump all ‘vegetarian’ diets in with the world ‘healthy’ – the specific study was on some extreme practioners of the Zen Macrobiotic Diet. There are some special issues for pregnant women and children — if you are concerned I would advise you to consult a registered dietician. I would be interested in seeing the studies you refer to if you can give me the citations. They don’t apply to your case – if you are still interested drop me an email note and I’ll look them up for you. sdb —
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Vegetarian diets are perfectly healthy and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. The American Dietetic Association (ADA) has issued a position paper on vegetarian stating that vegetarian diets are healthy when appropiately planned and provide health benefits over the standard American diet. Appropriately planned means planned to minimize high fat foods and sweets. I would include extracts from the
[...snip...] I just wanted to make one quick point. _Any_ appropriately planned diet will have advantages over the "standard american diet." Even as little as making sure that you eat two kinds of plants at every meal (in noticable amounts, of course) will be an improvement. This is not a point against vegan/vegitarian diets. Its just a reminder that compairing it to the "standard american diet" is like comparing going to school and not doing homework to going to a good school and doing all homework. Homework (or diet planning) is needed in either any old school ("standerd american diet") or at the school with a reputation (vegan/vegitarian diets). (Note: I keep putting ’standerd american diet’ in quotation marks because I don’t think that the people who think enough to read this news-group would be eating the "standerd american diet" _and_ because I think that statistics is an inherently flawed concept. [This coming from a math major. :) ]) Weird Breath is the gateway /o) A swollen head Between body and mind (o/ is an empty head The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other’s life.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal | diet for good health. | | Actually, strict vegetarians do not have particularly good health, | over all. Vegetarians who consume some animal protein such as fish or | eggs are fine and this latter one is indeed a very healthy diet. SO where did you get this new information that strict vegetarians do not have particulary good health? It’s not particularly new. Several studies of extremely strict vegetarian cultures have shown that the children are shorter and of lower weight than those of less strict vegan or non-vegan groups. It’s also true that a balanced ovolactovegetarian diet (eggs and dairy foods) is perfectly fine. Seventh Day Adventist cultures practice this, and their children do just fine.
But does "shorter and of lower weight" necessarily mean that they "do not have particularly good health"? My family has gone off dairy products since the rBGH business. Since we’re vegetarians I’d like to know of any studies that show definite health problems associated with a lack of dairy. We do eat eggs. My understanding is that the only nutrient deficient in the vegan diet is vitamin B12. The other nutrients that are normally obtained from animal products can be found in vegetables as well and one just has to modify one’s diet to include adequate amounts of those nutrients. In this same vein, did the researchers in the above mentioned studies examine the diets of subjects to determine what vegetables they ate and in what quanties? Also, since these were studies of vegetarian cultures it may be a cultural difference. In the environments in which these cultures developed it may be advantageous to be small and lightweight. It is theorized that the pigmy peoples are small because it is easier for small people to travel in dense forest. Do the studies you refer to account for these variables? And did the subjects show symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency? Not all vegans do–even without supplementation. I’ve heard (I don’t have the reference) that some vegans in the Himalayas show no vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms and it is thought that they get the small amounts needed from bug eggs in the beans and grains they eat. I would be interested in seeing the studies you refer to if you can give me the citations. Thanks, Karen Allen
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Vegetarian diets are perfectly healthy and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. The American Dietetic Association (ADA) has issued a position paper on vegetarian stating that vegetarian diets are healthy when appropiately planned and provide health benefits over the standard American diet. Appropriately planned means planned to minimize high fat foods and sweets. I would include extracts from the document, but I can’t locate my copy. I believe the study referred to that showed "vegetarian" children were shorter and had lower birth weight was actually a study of macrobiotic children (1). Mecrobiotics is not a vegetarian diet, since it includes occaisional fish, and is not typical of the diet that most vegetarians eat. You cannot draw conclusions about the healthfulness of vegetarianism by studying macrobiotic children any more than you can study it by interviewing people who visit the local McDonalds. (1) van Staveren et al., (1985). Food consumption and height/weight status of Dutch preschool children on alternative diets. J. OF THE AMER. DIETETIC ASSOC., 85(12):1579. — Bernie Simon Another road kill on the information superhighway
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| | Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal | diet for good health. | | Actually, strict vegetarians do not have particularly good health, | over all. Vegetarians who consume some animal protein such as fish or | eggs are fine and this latter one is indeed a very healthy diet. SO where did you get this new information that strict vegetarians do not have particulary good health? It’s not particularly new. Several studies of extremely strict vegetarian cultures have shown that the children are shorter and of lower weight than those of less strict vegan or non-vegan groups. It’s also true that a balanced ovolactovegetarian diet (eggs and dairy foods) is perfectly fine. Seventh Day Adventist cultures practice this, and their children do just fine. sdb —
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| | Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal | diet for good health. | | Actually, strict vegetarians do not have particularly good health, | over all. Vegetarians who consume some animal protein such as fish or | eggs are fine and this latter one is indeed a very healthy diet. SO where did you get this new information that strict vegetarians do not have particulary good health? I have NEVER tasted ANY animal protiens in my life and I can tell you that I am one of the healthiest persons on this earth. I almost NEVER fall sick and my medical bills are almost zilch every year. My daughter was EXTREMELY healthy when she was born (the uninformed doctors and nutrisionists were surprised at her excellent health at birth). She is almost three now and still right at the top in terms of growth rate etc. etc. with NO deficiency of any sort. Vegetarians or not is NOT the issue. How balanced your diet is (irrespective of the source) is the key to good health (of course excercises for adults is a MUST). | | The new food pyramid recently put out by the FDA has even | eliminated meat and diary products as necessary parts of a healthy | diet. | | This is exaggerated – perhaps you have never seen the food pyramid? | They are on the third level, recommended portions 2-3 per day. No argument here. | | sdb | — | Peace. Savithri
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Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal diet for good health. Actually, strict vegetarians do not have particularly good health, over all. Vegetarians who consume some animal protein such as fish or eggs are fine and this latter one is indeed a very healthy diet. The new food pyramid recently put out by the FDA has even eliminated meat and diary products as necessary parts of a healthy diet. This is exaggerated – perhaps you have never seen the food pyramid? They are on the third level, recommended portions 2-3 per day. sdb —
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I welcome all replies. LIES! LIES! SHE HAS NO PROOF! DON’T LISTEN TO HER!!! ALL SUBJECTIVE! ALL SUBJECTIVE!! WARNING! WARNING! WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! DANGER! ALL UNSCIENTIFIC!
Hmmm. Have you tried applying some Arnica cream?
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Blake reasons; Just because we can’t imagine how it can work doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
OBVIOUSLY, any reasonable and sane 20th century man would realize that we currently possess all knowledge pertaining to science and the world around us, SO, if something can’t be explained scientifically, it should be cast aside, or better yet, BANNED for the protection of those who are a danger to themselves… Silly rabbit, homeopathy is for primitives! <heh Greg
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It never ceases to amaze how so many "scientific" people eat up science fiction, but let someone suggest that there may indeed be "dimensions" of existence beyond what we can detect via the physical senses and these same people will be most adamantly opposed! To begin with, I am not amazed at how little it takes to amaze you, Mark, judging from the level of insight you have brought to the discussion of homeopathy as a medicine. I shudder at what you imagine a ’scientific’ person to be; but to their credit, I should point out that *they* are likely to be capable of making a distinction between *science* and *fiction* when they relax to enjoy some good science fiction….a distinction, which you, with your full intellect brought to bear on the homeopathic fiction, apparently can *not* make. It is one thing to leave the movie ET and get excited about the little cute creature from space who can heal by touch….it is quite another to base your healthcare decisions on such a fiction, all the while claiming "Well, there *might* be such beings with such powers." Does this *really* have to be explained to you? JB. — Institute for the Study of the "Der Kiropraktor ist und dumbkoff" Homeopathically Impaired. (ISHI) San Francisco, CA
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WARNING! WARNING! WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! DANGER! ALL UNSCIENTIFIC!
Ah, yes, "Lost in Space". Now there’s a "scientific" program for you 
It never ceases to amaze how so many "scientific" people eat up science fiction, but let someone suggest that there may indeed be "dimensions" of existence beyond what we can detect via the physical senses and these same people will be most adamantly opposed! Curious… but then perhaps there’s some sort of unacknowledged subconscious longing involved… Mark Sandrock — Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign "Die Gegenwart ist die einzige Zeit Chemical Sciences Computer Center die uns wirklich gehoert, und dass wir 505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 nach Gottes Willen nutzen sollen."
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I welcome all replies.
LIES! LIES! SHE HAS NO PROOF! DON’T LISTEN TO HER!!! ALL SUBJECTIVE! ALL SUBJECTIVE!! WARNING! WARNING! WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! DANGER! ALL UNSCIENTIFIC! <someone had to do it B^}
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Thanks, Karen. It’s good to hear some intelligent commentary regarding homeopathy on misc.health.alternative. People who say that there’s no way a homeopthic remedy can work if the substance is diluted beyond Avegadro’s number always make me shake my head. That’s like looking at a CD-ROM and saying that "there’s no way a whole encyclopedia can fit on that little disk." Just because we can’t imagine how it can work doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
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Blake People who say that there’s no way a homeopthic remedy can work Blake if the substance is diluted beyond Avegadro’s number always Blake make me shake my head. That’s like looking at a CD-ROM and Blake saying that "there’s no way a whole encyclopedia can fit on Blake that little disk." I don’t think that’s a very appropriate analogy. After all, even though you may not, personally, be able to build a CD-ROM reader, you almost certainly understand the physical laws which are involved. Furthermore, the development of the CD-ROM started with a firm understanding and then exploited physics. It’s also really simple to show that a CD-ROM works. I don’t see why skepticism about any effects when diluting beyond Avegadro’s number should surprise anyone. All of our experience with the physical universe indicates that it shouldn’t work. This is certainly not a proof that it doesn’t or can’t work, but it does mean that any effects are unexpected. Have you ever spoken with someone certain that the world will end by some particular date? They always shake their heads at the blindness of others to the obvious oncomming cataclism. The evidence, to them, seems overwhelming. Blake Just because we can’t imagine how it can work doesn’t mean it Blake doesn’t work. True. But it does mean that if it does work, we can’t control it with any precision. For this reason alone, I’m surprised that I don’t hear more advocates of homeopathy screeming for high quality, double blind research. It also means that you’d expect considerable resistance when people are confronted with theories that violate accepted science rather than being surprised by skepticism. That’s simply the way science progresses. It took a considerable weight of evidence before general relativity replaced newtonian mechanics. Furthermore, the new theory had to explain everything that the old theory explained in addition to accounting for the additional pheonomina. There are lots of areas where investigation is being conducted even though there’s not a firm understanding of the theories involved. High temp superconductors is an example. And skepticism abounds when a new record is claimed, especially if it diverges or contradicts other results. The effects aren’t generally accepted until they are repeated by different researchers. You should expect, rather than be surprised, that homeopathy would follow this path of skepticism. That’s how we weed out the N-rays from the superconductors. Hayden — Hayden Schultz MIT Lincoln Lab 244 Wood St. Lexington, MA, 02173 (617) 981-3685
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To all those who have been arguing about whether science is biased against homeopathy let me say that I have been using homeopathic remedies for about thirteen years now. I have also been a vegetarian for thirteen years. In 1981 the biology course in nutrition I took advised against vegetarianism because there was no proof that one could remain healthy on a vegetarian diet. Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal diet for good health. The new food pyramid recently put out by the FDA has even eliminated meat and diary products as necessary parts of a healthy diet. Now, if I had taken the word of the scientific community as gospel truth, I would have spent years on a diet that was definitely not optimal and agrguably detrimental.l Also, I would now feel foolish at having followed the advice of mainstream scientists rather than having relied on time honored traditions that have proven themselves effective. It is my impression that scientists are more or less feeling their way in the dark in putting together a new basis for healthy living. First it seemed we needed meat, now it seems meat is not so good. At one time they thought that margarine was a better choice than butter. Now it seems that margarine is just as bad as butter and that olive oil is the fat of choice. Not so long ago it ws even thought that cigarette smoking was healthy because it was relaxing. My point is that scientific findings are not necessarily a good source of advice. Science is definitely a valid method of inquiry and I respect the scientists who work to find ways of making people healthier. But it is relatively young when compared to systems such as ayurveda (which I follow) and ancient Chinese medicine. I feel that what is happening today with homeopathy is similar to what happened over the past fifteen years with vegetarianism. Science will validate homeopathy, but I’m not going to hang around waiting for scientific proof before I take advantage of a system of medicine that is so beneficial to humanity. My own health (both physical and mental) has improved immeasurably since I’ve been using homeopathy. I have seen serious emotional problems alleviated in members of my family because of homeopathy (the young man who takes a remedy to keep his violent behavior in check jokingly refers to it as his placebo, but his mother–who had always been a strong skeptic about homeopathy herself–is amazed and relieved at the results of the treatment). My four year old daughter hasn’t needed antibiotics to get over ear infections, sore throats, etc. Thank you Samuel Hahnemann! Conventional medicine has its place. If I were in a serious car accident I would welcome the tools and methods of emergency technicians. In life-threatening situations we may need what modern medicine has to offer. But allopathic treatments are overprescribed. They should be used only when necessary.l What are we going to do about the antibiotic- resistant strains of bacteria that are developing? (Perhaps the homeopaths will step in and offer some help). When are doctors going to realize that the "cures" they offer usually only cover up the symptoms while adding new misery to patients lives in the form of side effects. Every time I or my daughter have consulted an allopathic doctor because of an ailment the only thing he has had to offer is an antibiotic. The first and only time I gave my daughter antibiotics (at the age of 9 months) her bottem became so sore from the dirrhea that resulted that she screamed every time she urinated. Is that what you would call a *cure*? Yet when I was able to get in touch with my homeopathic doctor the remedy he prescribed worked amazingly well and saved the whole family a lot of pain and emotional distress. But, alas, science has not yet developed to the point where it can deal with a therapy that dilutes remedies to the point where no molecules are left to act. Yes, it certainly is difficult to believe that there can be any cure when there is no sustance to do the curing and the skeptics are right to question this whole business. But I, in turn, would ask why it is so hard to imagine that there may be levels of energy that we haven’t been able to detect with the tools available to us. The electromagnetic spectrum represents a wide array of energy wavelengths, but only a small fraction of those waves are detectable by human senses. Some animals are able to detect energy waves that we cannot. Technology has provided tools that are able to detect wavelengths beyond what humans can detect as well. Is it not then possible that there may be subtle forms of energy that we know nothing of? If so, then should we just ignore any therapy that uses them until science proves their existence? I have seen too much to be able to that myself. And I am saddened when I see people, especially children, suffer from the side effects of conventional medicines when I know there are safer remedies available. To the skeptics I would say continue on your path. You’ll get there in time. It’s just too bad that you have to wait for scientific verification before you can take advantage of all that homeopathy has to offer. I welcome all replies.
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What are the best newsgroups for homeopathy? Ta
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What are the best newsgroups for homeopathy?
The best homeopathy resources are printed in color, on Sundays. — Remove the OBVIOUS
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What are the best newsgroups for homeopathy? The best homeopathy resources are printed in color, on Sundays.
Henry, is this really necessary? We really don’t need any more belittling on this ng. Jan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Remove the OBVIOUS
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Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. I have used it in practice with impressive results. Say what you will but seeing is believing. All the "science" in the world cannot replace real clinical results. It’s odd that health care seems to have more prejudice and narrowmindedness than any other field. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period!
Didn’t work for me when I tried it. And I wasn’t self-medicating; I went to a homeopath who’d been recommended by two other people (who don’t know each other). But, since "it works when used correctly," I guess it must not have been used correctly. What a great scam — heads I win, tails don’t count. These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "After all, this is still the land of opportunity. If you know where to look." – Jack Douglas
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You were doing fine and then you had to add the line about scam . We could benefit from your experience , but not your faulty opinion . but this is the net . And so we have to wade through a lot of crap from folks like David . Hey David do you have any real helpful alternative suggestions for us ? If not , We shall be forced to once again use the delete key ., cause people like you seldom go away when asked to . T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. I have used it in practice with impressive results. Say what you will but seeing is believing. All the "science" in the world cannot replace real clinical results. It’s odd that health care seems to have more prejudice and narrowmindedness than any other field. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period! Didn’t work for me when I tried it. And I wasn’t self-medicating; I went to a homeopath who’d been recommended by two other people (who don’t know each other). But, since "it works when used correctly," I guess it must not have been used correctly. What a great scam — heads I win, tails don’t count. These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "After all, this is still the land of opportunity. If you know where to look." – Jack Douglas
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You were doing fine and then you had to add the line about scam. We could benefit from your experience, but not your faulty opinion.
As someone else pointed out, opinions just are. And in any case, I wasn’t offering an opinion on homeopathy, just on some fool who was stacking the deck by claiming that it always worked when used correctly. As I said, that’s a scam, because if it doesn’t work, you can just turn around and claim it wasn’t used correctly. Heads I win, tails don’t count. but this is the net . And so we have to wade through a lot of crap from folks like David.
Would you like some cheese to go with your whine, o twit who declines to use his/her real name? Hey David do you have any real helpful alternative suggestions for us?
In other articles, yes. Meanwhile, where are all the helpful articles from you? Hardly to be found. Mostly, you just complain. If not , We shall be forced to once again use the delete key .,
Nooooo! Not THE DELETE KEY!! cause people like you seldom go away when asked to . T
Why would I care what *you* want? These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "After all, this is still the land of opportunity. If you know where to look." – Jack Douglas
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Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period! What a great scam — heads I win, tails don’t count.
medtools then responded: You were doing fine and then you had to add the line about scam . We could benefit from your experience , but not your faulty opinion .
Opinions aren’t faulty. They simply ARE. And everyone is entitled. Although one should have the courtesy not to try to force one’s opinions on others. but this is the net . And so we have to wade through a lot of crap from folks like David . Hey David do you have any real helpful alternative suggestions for us ? If not , We shall be forced to once again use the delete key ., cause people like you seldom go away when asked to . T
I must say that I agree with David’s response. It was a poignant response to the prior posting by HEALTHGATE (whoever that is). Also, he wasn’t being belligerent, as you just were. — | | | | | | | | Remove the ‘X’ at the end when replying __|_/ _|_/ | | | Destroy the spam bots!
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Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. I have used it in practice with impressive results. Say what you will but seeing is believing. All the "science" in the world cannot replace real clinical results. It’s odd that health care seems to have more prejudice and narrowmindedness than any other field. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period!
You are right on in many cases. We in medacine ask for double-blinded, placebo-controlled studies and only believe the results if we believed them before we had all the data. We use drugs that are maginally proven safe and effective and ignore others that all that and more. "Figures lie and lies figure" "I’ll believe it when I see it -OR- I’ll see it when I believe it" It is amasing what homeopathy has gone through in this country. No, it is NOT a replacement for allopathy or what we would call traditional medicine, but if something has proven time and time again to be much more effective than placebo, without the side effects, then why would we not use it. The answers are to numerous to list here, but it is changing very slowly here in the US. In Europe, homeopathy is used by 1/3 or more of many of the physicians in many of the countries and is believed in by the people. This is a common question. "Do you believe in homeopathy?" Of course, belief has nothing to do with science. It is either clinically proven and is fact or it is not. Belief has little to do with things that can be proven. I thank you for your post and hope that more people and professionals can see both sciences as useful. Neither one is complete without help from the other…Bro39
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Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. I have used it in practice with impressive results. Say what you will but seeing is believing. All the "science" in the world cannot replace real clinical results. It’s odd that health care seems to have more prejudice and narrowmindedness than any other field. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period!
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There are no mailing lists or other resources on the internet devoted specifically to homeopathy that I know of. If you have some questions or comments on homeopathy, please post them in this newsgroup. Homeopathy has been a topic of intense discussion in the past on misc.health.alternative and no doubt it will be again. —
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There is a Special Forum on Homeopathy on the Online Service "Delphi". Richard Sanders
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there is a whole network set up for homeopathy. IGC, called Homeonet.
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Hi, I am new to the Internet but I am interested in Homeopathy and was wondering if there is a mailing list dedicated to Homeopathy or any other newsgroup. Thanks in advance for any help. karen
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I’m looking for a software of Homeopathy. Can someone help?
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Chiltern Hills Wellness writes one, but they have no address on the CD. David Bonello – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a software of Homeopathy. Can someone help?
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine. I think it plays an important role and when utilized properly will benefit many patients.
hehe I think you’re joking. hd
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine.
Have had lots of little successes with it, treating myself and my pets, especially for colds, flus, conjunctivitis, dental pain. Unfortunately, I have not found a single remedy to help me during an asthma attack.
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine. I think it plays an important role and when utilized properly will benefit many patients. Oh, that explains everything. Thanks. Why didn’t I think of that.
Hey, there ya go. I posted a reply to your post about the person who said *Hulda was wrong* but it didn’t get here, guess I must have forgot to click on just let me say that you made a judgement from the words, *Hulda was wrong* nothing more. So now I must say to you just what you have stated here. We do seem to trip ourselves up! We have a beautiful bit of snow this A.M. my hubby says it is so pretty, he kidding. Now AF get out in that kitchen and get busy! Jan Must – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -be all that improper utilization that explains the mostly unconvincing scientific track record for water, er, homeopathic solutions. AF
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine. Thanks.
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As a professional homeopath, I am curious to know what other people think about homeopathic medicine.
I think it plays an important role and when utilized properly will benefit many patients.
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John, I’d tell you the name of your mental disorder, but it is a violation of the group policy to do so.
So is abusive flaming but that never stops you. John
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I know a homeopath curing cancer but you can’t really tell anyone as it is illegal for him to do so.
John, it is not illegal for someone to cure cancer. It is (or at least should be) illegal to SAY you can cure cancer when you can’t. There is a difference. By the way, nominations for the 2001 Nobel Prizes have to be in by 1 February. A cure for cancer is a certain winner, so get those forms filled in. Mad – Quintessence of the Loon http://www.ratbags.com/loon Bad – The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Sad – Full Canvas Jacket http://www.ratbags.com/ranters
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I just saw this on a list I am on. I am too tired to check it out, maybe someone else would like to?? Jan The NIH is funding a clinic in India that has had proven (by NIH preliminary study)success with treating cancer patients in India with homeopathy. I saw the article on cancercure or cancercured here on egroups a month or two ago, search for homeopathy for cancer on both of those sites and you should find it.
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I just saw this on a list I am on. I am too tired to check it out, maybe someone else would like to?? Jan The NIH is funding a clinic in India that has had proven (by NIH preliminary study)success with treating cancer patients in India with homeopathy. I saw the article on cancercure or cancercured here on egroups a month or two ago, search for homeopathy for cancer on both of those sites and you should find it.
I know a homeopath curing cancer but you can’t really tell anyone as it is illegal for him to do so. John
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John, I’d tell you the name of your mental disorder, but it is a violation of the group policy to do so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just saw this on a list I am on. I am too tired to check it out, maybe someone else would like to?? Jan The NIH is funding a clinic in India that has had proven (by NIH preliminary study)success with treating cancer patients in India with homeopathy. I saw the article on cancercure or cancercured here on egroups a month or two ago, search for homeopathy for cancer on both of those sites and you should find it. I know a homeopath curing cancer but you can’t really tell anyone as it is illegal for him to do so. John
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Macrobiotics is a grain based diet with the addition of beans, vegetables, and sea vegatables and complimented by fruits and occaisional fish. Actually, this is not macrobiotics, Bernie. Macrobiotics is not a diet, it is a way of life. As part of this ‘way’, many – perhaps most – practioners believe that grains should be the principle staple because it is near the mid point of yin and yang foods. An equally important principle is that you should only consume what is grown in season, organically and in the region in which you live. As you point out, none of this is very scientific and there are vastly superior approaches to constructing a diet. In point of fact many macrobiotic practioners shun fruit (mentioned in your description) as being too ‘yin’, and consider meat a cardinal sin — Xander Steevensz was raised ‘macrobiotically’ from the age of 14 and wrote about this in an interesting article in Solstice. You might want to read it. It gets even more complex when you introduce the factor of climate – certain foods are ‘ok’ in cold climates that wouldn’t be ‘ok’ in hot, and there are other considerations. Then of course, some practioners also believe you can eat anything as long as you eat ‘macrobiotically’, so it’s important to define your populations here too. However, I think you are going to have a difficult time defending your claim that you can’t evaluate certain types of vegetarianism by examining macrobiotic populations. family. Anyone who says macrobiotics promotes a diet solely of brown rice as its ultimate goal is either ignorant of the facts or is someone with an axe to grind. You tell us which category you fall in. Well, as I pointed out in my original article – it’s important to be clear about what type of vegetarianism we are talking about. Some forms are clearly harmful and some are not – I believe I used the 7th Day Advents as an example of the beneficial effects of vegetarianism. It does absolutely no good for a person who is seeking information about vegetarianism to say ‘Sure, go for it!’ without finding out what that particular individual means when they say ‘vegetarianism’, so I tried to give both sides of the picture by presenting the Advents and a group of zen macrobioticists. Considering that you have just made even more errors (including the grevious one of identifying macrobiotics as a ‘diet’) it really would be best if you confined yourself to homeopathic promotions and left the other discussions for the well informed. Or you could become more informed about macrobiotics than you are. That would be even better. You might be interested to know that I was raised as a vegetarian and (except for a brief rebellious period during my teens) still consider myself a vegetarian. Since I also consume fish and dairy products (considerably more than most macrobiotic practioners would), you might consider me an ovo-lacto-piscatarian. sdb —
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Sorry, this is again incorrect. As one progresses through the 10 dietary stages on your road to a happier life you eliminate desserts, fruits, salads, animal foods, soup and vegetables etc., etc. with grains. Infants of parents on such a diet are fed kokoh, which is deficient in many vitamins and minerals.
Are you sure about this? As I recall, many years ago when I was on the macrobiotic diet, you start out at 100% grains, then progress down into the lower levels as long as the symptoms of "sanpaku" do not return. You start out eating nothing but brown rice or other whole grains for two weeks. The book which taught me about macrobiotics was _You_Are_All_Sanpaku_ by George Ohsawa, which is the book which touched off the wave of interest in macrobiotics back in the late 1960’s.
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There are a few macrobiotic populations that eat a more restrictive diet that can lead to deficiencies. That is unfortunate, in my opinion. That seemed to be more common in Boston (in my experience), but the large majority of other places have "Americanized" the diet in such a way that it very closely resembles a healthy vegetarian diet. Yes, I agree – most present day macrobiotic practioners have departed from the original macrobiotic diet as described by Kushi and Oshawa to the point that it no longer represents a health threat or has much to do with ‘macrobiotic’ diet as promulgated by its founders. You seem to have gotten your information from newspaper clippings, studies on individual populations (who have eaten a very restrictive diet), or one the NCAHF’s misinformation campaigns as opposed to actual personal experience. Wrong again, Mark. I’ve read several books on macrobiotics by the original proponents and I’ve also attended a weekend macrobiotic retreat where I could sample the diet for myself. Aside from being one of the most miserable culinary experiences of my life I found the diet nutritionally inferior to scientifically based diets such as Pritikin. Furthermore, animal protein was not visible to me, at least during that retreat. I also attended the lectures on macrobiotics given while I was at the retreat so I’m certainly reasonably well informed on the topic. There is no way that any knowledgable person can claim that macrobiotics is not essentially a vegatarian diet because some fish is consumed. To equate the amount of fish consumed to the amount of beef consumed by someone who eats only at McDonalds (as Bernie Simon did) shows the grossest imaginable ignorance. I can’t believe you agree with that comment. I understand that it is your duty as a professional skeptic to attack everything related to holistic health, but please limit your attacks to things that you actually know something about. I criticized Simon because he is obviously ignorant of macrobiotics. Unlike you and Simon, I have not speculated on your motives or your personalities. What is it about certain members of the holistic community that makes them unable to focus on the facts at hand? sdb —
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Anyone who says macrobiotics promotes a diet solely of brown rice as its ultimate goal is either ignorant of the facts or is someone with an axe to grind. You are, of course, referring to George Ozawa here… so I must agree JB.
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(John Badanes) writes:
*You*, Bernie Simon, have a hard time defending *macrobiotics* because you feel it is not scientifically sound? ‘Scuse me? **TILT** This is to say that you have been defending *homeopathy* all this time on the basis that it rests on firm scientific underpinnings? As Tina Turner would say, "What’s science got to do with it?" Yes, I believe homeopathy is scientifically sound and I’ve cited the evidence supporting homeopathy in the past. Homeopathy is a scientific theory of medicine because it explains the actions of medicines in terms of a few general principles and justifies these principles on experience, not tradition or authority. Of course, not all scientific theories are true. Phlogiston is one example of a scientific theory that has proven false. But homeopathy has nearly 200 years of clinical experience to demonstrate its effectiveness. It first came to widespread attention as a result of its effectiveness in treating cholera. There are also a number of double blind studies of homeopathic medicines. A pamphlet from Boiron that I have says that over 100 double blind studies have shown homeopathic medicines to be effective. Do you know of any allopathic medical procedure that has over 100 double blind studies demonstrating its effectiveness? —
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Bernie Simon writes: I have a hard time defending macrobiotics, because I don’t feel that it is scientifically sound. *You*, Bernie Simon, have a hard time defending *macrobiotics* because you feel it is not scientifically sound? ‘Scuse me? **TILT** This is to say that you have been defending *homeopathy* all this time on the basis that it rests on firm scientific underpinnings? As Tina Turner would say, "What’s science got to do with it?" JB.
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nutrient deficient in the vegan diet is vitamin B12. The other nutrients that are normally obtained from animal products can be found in vegetables as well and one just has to modify one’s diet to include adequate amounts of those nutrients. Since you eat eggs, you don’t have to be particularly concerned about B12. I don’t remember who the original poster was, but it is not correct to lump all ‘vegetarian’ diets in with the world ‘healthy’ – the specific study was on some extreme practioners of the Zen Macrobiotic Diet. There are some special issues for pregnant women and children — if you are concerned I would advise you to consult a registered dietician.
1.) The orginal poster was me!!! You are right, it is not correct to lump all vegetarian diets in with the world healthy but when one says "a vegetarian diet is healthful" those of us with common sense (and no axe to grind) don’t assume one is talking about extreme vegetarian diets. Let’s keep some common sense in these discussions. 2.) I’m sorry if I misled you, but I was not asking for advice. My comments were tongue-in-cheek. I am not concerned about my diet but was just trying to understand why *you* were trying to characterize all vegan diets as harmful by citing a study that (as we now all know) dealt only with an extreme diet. Furthermore, why is it that when scientists finally decide to study vegetarianism they pick such an extreme form of it to study. Have they no common sense! Or are they just using (abusing) science to grind axes? I would be interested in seeing the studies you refer to if you can give me the citations. They don’t apply to your case – if you are still interested drop me an email note and I’ll look them up for you.
3.) I am interested in seeing the studies because I don’t think they are valid. You could e-mail the citations to me but I would rather you post them to the group (if you feel they can stand up to scrutiny!!!). Karen Allen
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Sorry, this is again incorrect. As one progresses through the 10 dietary stages on your road to a happier life you eliminate desserts, fruits, salads, animal foods, soup and vegetables etc., etc. with grains. Infants of parents on such a diet are fed kokoh, which is deficient in many vitamins and minerals. In all stages products such as fish are regarded as condiments, and their use is condoned only in the early ones. It is a particularly unhealthy and un-nutritious diet and it will also not cure you of cancer. Please inform yourself about the actual practices of macrobiotics before you comment on them.
Scott, You should try to take your own advice and *inform* yourself about the actual practices of macrobiotics before you comment on them. You obviously no nothing about how it is *currently* practiced by the large majority of people who have studied its principles. The large majority of people eat a diet very similar to a healthy vegetarian diet. Most East West Centers that I’ve been to teach people to eat a diet based on grains, vegetables, fruits, legumes, sea vegetables, etc. Some people eat some fish, others don’t. I’ve eaten quite a bit of fresh fruit at other East West Centers. There are a few macrobiotic populations that eat a more restrictive diet that can lead to deficiencies. That is unfortunate, in my opinion. That seemed to be more common in Boston (in my experience), but the large majority of other places have "Americanized" the diet in such a way that it very closely resembles a healthy vegetarian diet. In the 1960s and 1970s, there was quite a bit of nonesensical dietetic information. There was Dr. Stare’s support of sugar and white bread for health. There were vegetarians stubbornly trying to live off of white rice and vegetables. And there was George Ohsawa’s "higher" level diets. Fortunately, most health conscious people have progressed towards a healthier, more practical natural foods diet, including people who practice macrobiotics. You seem to have gotten your information from newspaper clippings, studies on individual populations (who have eaten a very restrictive diet), or one the NCAHF’s misinformation campaigns as opposed to actual personal experience. I understand that it is your duty as a professional skeptic to attack everything related to holistic health, but please limit your attacks to things that you actually know something about. – Mark P.S. – I have read in the American Medical Association Family Medical Guide that "In general, the macrobiotic diet is a healthful way of eating."
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First, in your previous post, you talked about vegetarian diets being unhealthy and didn’t mention macrobiotics. If you specifically meant to talk about macrobiotics, you should have mentioned it specifically. Otherwise, people are misled by your posting. Second, I have a hard time defending macrobiotics, because I don’t feel that it is scientifically sound. Still, peopale desrve a better picture of it than you present in your caricature. When you say that: "As one progresses through the 10 dietary stages on your road to a happier life you eliminate desserts, fruits, salads, animal foods, soup and vegetables etc., etc. with grains." You are presenting a false picture of macrobiotic practice based on a misreading of one of Michio Kushi’s writings. Macrobiotics is a grain based diet with the addition of beans, vegetables, and sea vegatables and complimented by fruits and occaisional fish. It avoids other animal products and vegetables from the nightshade family. Anyone who says macrobiotics promotes a diet solely of brown rice as its ultimate goal is either ignorant of the facts or is someone with an axe to grind. You tell us which category you fall in. —
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Vegetarian diets are perfectly healthy and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Some are, some are not. Mecrobiotics is not a vegetarian diet, since it includes occaisional fish, and is not typical of the diet that most vegetarians eat. You cannot draw conclusions about the healthfulness of vegetarianism by studying macrobiotic children any more than you can study it by interviewing people who visit the local McDonalds. Sorry, this is again incorrect. As one progresses through the 10 dietary stages on your road to a happier life you eliminate desserts, fruits, salads, animal foods, soup and vegetables etc., etc. with grains. Infants of parents on such a diet are fed kokoh, which is deficient in many vitamins and minerals. In all stages products such as fish are regarded as condiments, and their use is condoned only in the early ones. It is a particularly unhealthy and un-nutritious diet and it will also not cure you of cancer. Please inform yourself about the actual practices of macrobiotics before you comment on them. sdb —
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nutrient deficient in the vegan diet is vitamin B12. The other nutrients that are normally obtained from animal products can be found in vegetables as well and one just has to modify one’s diet to include adequate amounts of those nutrients. Since you eat eggs, you don’t have to be particularly concerned about B12. I don’t remember who the original poster was, but it is not correct to lump all ‘vegetarian’ diets in with the world ‘healthy’ – the specific study was on some extreme practioners of the Zen Macrobiotic Diet. There are some special issues for pregnant women and children — if you are concerned I would advise you to consult a registered dietician. I would be interested in seeing the studies you refer to if you can give me the citations. They don’t apply to your case – if you are still interested drop me an email note and I’ll look them up for you. sdb —
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Vegetarian diets are perfectly healthy and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. The American Dietetic Association (ADA) has issued a position paper on vegetarian stating that vegetarian diets are healthy when appropiately planned and provide health benefits over the standard American diet. Appropriately planned means planned to minimize high fat foods and sweets. I would include extracts from the
[...snip...] I just wanted to make one quick point. _Any_ appropriately planned diet will have advantages over the "standard american diet." Even as little as making sure that you eat two kinds of plants at every meal (in noticable amounts, of course) will be an improvement. This is not a point against vegan/vegitarian diets. Its just a reminder that compairing it to the "standard american diet" is like comparing going to school and not doing homework to going to a good school and doing all homework. Homework (or diet planning) is needed in either any old school ("standerd american diet") or at the school with a reputation (vegan/vegitarian diets). (Note: I keep putting ’standerd american diet’ in quotation marks because I don’t think that the people who think enough to read this news-group would be eating the "standerd american diet" _and_ because I think that statistics is an inherently flawed concept. [This coming from a math major. :) ]) Weird Breath is the gateway /o) A swollen head Between body and mind (o/ is an empty head The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other’s life.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal | diet for good health. | | Actually, strict vegetarians do not have particularly good health, | over all. Vegetarians who consume some animal protein such as fish or | eggs are fine and this latter one is indeed a very healthy diet. SO where did you get this new information that strict vegetarians do not have particulary good health? It’s not particularly new. Several studies of extremely strict vegetarian cultures have shown that the children are shorter and of lower weight than those of less strict vegan or non-vegan groups. It’s also true that a balanced ovolactovegetarian diet (eggs and dairy foods) is perfectly fine. Seventh Day Adventist cultures practice this, and their children do just fine.
But does "shorter and of lower weight" necessarily mean that they "do not have particularly good health"? My family has gone off dairy products since the rBGH business. Since we’re vegetarians I’d like to know of any studies that show definite health problems associated with a lack of dairy. We do eat eggs. My understanding is that the only nutrient deficient in the vegan diet is vitamin B12. The other nutrients that are normally obtained from animal products can be found in vegetables as well and one just has to modify one’s diet to include adequate amounts of those nutrients. In this same vein, did the researchers in the above mentioned studies examine the diets of subjects to determine what vegetables they ate and in what quanties? Also, since these were studies of vegetarian cultures it may be a cultural difference. In the environments in which these cultures developed it may be advantageous to be small and lightweight. It is theorized that the pigmy peoples are small because it is easier for small people to travel in dense forest. Do the studies you refer to account for these variables? And did the subjects show symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency? Not all vegans do–even without supplementation. I’ve heard (I don’t have the reference) that some vegans in the Himalayas show no vitamin B12 deficiency symptoms and it is thought that they get the small amounts needed from bug eggs in the beans and grains they eat. I would be interested in seeing the studies you refer to if you can give me the citations. Thanks, Karen Allen
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Vegetarian diets are perfectly healthy and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. The American Dietetic Association (ADA) has issued a position paper on vegetarian stating that vegetarian diets are healthy when appropiately planned and provide health benefits over the standard American diet. Appropriately planned means planned to minimize high fat foods and sweets. I would include extracts from the document, but I can’t locate my copy. I believe the study referred to that showed "vegetarian" children were shorter and had lower birth weight was actually a study of macrobiotic children (1). Mecrobiotics is not a vegetarian diet, since it includes occaisional fish, and is not typical of the diet that most vegetarians eat. You cannot draw conclusions about the healthfulness of vegetarianism by studying macrobiotic children any more than you can study it by interviewing people who visit the local McDonalds. (1) van Staveren et al., (1985). Food consumption and height/weight status of Dutch preschool children on alternative diets. J. OF THE AMER. DIETETIC ASSOC., 85(12):1579. — Bernie Simon Another road kill on the information superhighway
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| | Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal | diet for good health. | | Actually, strict vegetarians do not have particularly good health, | over all. Vegetarians who consume some animal protein such as fish or | eggs are fine and this latter one is indeed a very healthy diet. SO where did you get this new information that strict vegetarians do not have particulary good health? It’s not particularly new. Several studies of extremely strict vegetarian cultures have shown that the children are shorter and of lower weight than those of less strict vegan or non-vegan groups. It’s also true that a balanced ovolactovegetarian diet (eggs and dairy foods) is perfectly fine. Seventh Day Adventist cultures practice this, and their children do just fine. sdb —
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| | Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal | diet for good health. | | Actually, strict vegetarians do not have particularly good health, | over all. Vegetarians who consume some animal protein such as fish or | eggs are fine and this latter one is indeed a very healthy diet. SO where did you get this new information that strict vegetarians do not have particulary good health? I have NEVER tasted ANY animal protiens in my life and I can tell you that I am one of the healthiest persons on this earth. I almost NEVER fall sick and my medical bills are almost zilch every year. My daughter was EXTREMELY healthy when she was born (the uninformed doctors and nutrisionists were surprised at her excellent health at birth). She is almost three now and still right at the top in terms of growth rate etc. etc. with NO deficiency of any sort. Vegetarians or not is NOT the issue. How balanced your diet is (irrespective of the source) is the key to good health (of course excercises for adults is a MUST). | | The new food pyramid recently put out by the FDA has even | eliminated meat and diary products as necessary parts of a healthy | diet. | | This is exaggerated – perhaps you have never seen the food pyramid? | They are on the third level, recommended portions 2-3 per day. No argument here. | | sdb | — | Peace. Savithri
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Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal diet for good health. Actually, strict vegetarians do not have particularly good health, over all. Vegetarians who consume some animal protein such as fish or eggs are fine and this latter one is indeed a very healthy diet. The new food pyramid recently put out by the FDA has even eliminated meat and diary products as necessary parts of a healthy diet. This is exaggerated – perhaps you have never seen the food pyramid? They are on the third level, recommended portions 2-3 per day. sdb —
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I welcome all replies. LIES! LIES! SHE HAS NO PROOF! DON’T LISTEN TO HER!!! ALL SUBJECTIVE! ALL SUBJECTIVE!! WARNING! WARNING! WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! DANGER! ALL UNSCIENTIFIC!
Hmmm. Have you tried applying some Arnica cream?
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Blake reasons; Just because we can’t imagine how it can work doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
OBVIOUSLY, any reasonable and sane 20th century man would realize that we currently possess all knowledge pertaining to science and the world around us, SO, if something can’t be explained scientifically, it should be cast aside, or better yet, BANNED for the protection of those who are a danger to themselves… Silly rabbit, homeopathy is for primitives! <heh Greg
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It never ceases to amaze how so many "scientific" people eat up science fiction, but let someone suggest that there may indeed be "dimensions" of existence beyond what we can detect via the physical senses and these same people will be most adamantly opposed! To begin with, I am not amazed at how little it takes to amaze you, Mark, judging from the level of insight you have brought to the discussion of homeopathy as a medicine. I shudder at what you imagine a ’scientific’ person to be; but to their credit, I should point out that *they* are likely to be capable of making a distinction between *science* and *fiction* when they relax to enjoy some good science fiction….a distinction, which you, with your full intellect brought to bear on the homeopathic fiction, apparently can *not* make. It is one thing to leave the movie ET and get excited about the little cute creature from space who can heal by touch….it is quite another to base your healthcare decisions on such a fiction, all the while claiming "Well, there *might* be such beings with such powers." Does this *really* have to be explained to you? JB. — Institute for the Study of the "Der Kiropraktor ist und dumbkoff" Homeopathically Impaired. (ISHI) San Francisco, CA
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WARNING! WARNING! WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! DANGER! ALL UNSCIENTIFIC!
Ah, yes, "Lost in Space". Now there’s a "scientific" program for you It never ceases to amaze how so many "scientific" people eat up science fiction, but let someone suggest that there may indeed be "dimensions" of existence beyond what we can detect via the physical senses and these same people will be most adamantly opposed! Curious… but then perhaps there’s some sort of unacknowledged subconscious longing involved… Mark Sandrock — Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign "Die Gegenwart ist die einzige Zeit Chemical Sciences Computer Center die uns wirklich gehoert, und dass wir 505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 nach Gottes Willen nutzen sollen."
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I welcome all replies.
LIES! LIES! SHE HAS NO PROOF! DON’T LISTEN TO HER!!! ALL SUBJECTIVE! ALL SUBJECTIVE!! WARNING! WARNING! WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! DANGER! ALL UNSCIENTIFIC! <someone had to do it B^}
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Thanks, Karen. It’s good to hear some intelligent commentary regarding homeopathy on misc.health.alternative. People who say that there’s no way a homeopthic remedy can work if the substance is diluted beyond Avegadro’s number always make me shake my head. That’s like looking at a CD-ROM and saying that "there’s no way a whole encyclopedia can fit on that little disk." Just because we can’t imagine how it can work doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
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Blake People who say that there’s no way a homeopthic remedy can work Blake if the substance is diluted beyond Avegadro’s number always Blake make me shake my head. That’s like looking at a CD-ROM and Blake saying that "there’s no way a whole encyclopedia can fit on Blake that little disk." I don’t think that’s a very appropriate analogy. After all, even though you may not, personally, be able to build a CD-ROM reader, you almost certainly understand the physical laws which are involved. Furthermore, the development of the CD-ROM started with a firm understanding and then exploited physics. It’s also really simple to show that a CD-ROM works. I don’t see why skepticism about any effects when diluting beyond Avegadro’s number should surprise anyone. All of our experience with the physical universe indicates that it shouldn’t work. This is certainly not a proof that it doesn’t or can’t work, but it does mean that any effects are unexpected. Have you ever spoken with someone certain that the world will end by some particular date? They always shake their heads at the blindness of others to the obvious oncomming cataclism. The evidence, to them, seems overwhelming. Blake Just because we can’t imagine how it can work doesn’t mean it Blake doesn’t work. True. But it does mean that if it does work, we can’t control it with any precision. For this reason alone, I’m surprised that I don’t hear more advocates of homeopathy screeming for high quality, double blind research. It also means that you’d expect considerable resistance when people are confronted with theories that violate accepted science rather than being surprised by skepticism. That’s simply the way science progresses. It took a considerable weight of evidence before general relativity replaced newtonian mechanics. Furthermore, the new theory had to explain everything that the old theory explained in addition to accounting for the additional pheonomina. There are lots of areas where investigation is being conducted even though there’s not a firm understanding of the theories involved. High temp superconductors is an example. And skepticism abounds when a new record is claimed, especially if it diverges or contradicts other results. The effects aren’t generally accepted until they are repeated by different researchers. You should expect, rather than be surprised, that homeopathy would follow this path of skepticism. That’s how we weed out the N-rays from the superconductors. Hayden — Hayden Schultz MIT Lincoln Lab 244 Wood St. Lexington, MA, 02173 (617) 981-3685
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To all those who have been arguing about whether science is biased against homeopathy let me say that I have been using homeopathic remedies for about thirteen years now. I have also been a vegetarian for thirteen years. In 1981 the biology course in nutrition I took advised against vegetarianism because there was no proof that one could remain healthy on a vegetarian diet. Today science is finding that vegetarianism is actually the optimal diet for good health. The new food pyramid recently put out by the FDA has even eliminated meat and diary products as necessary parts of a healthy diet. Now, if I had taken the word of the scientific community as gospel truth, I would have spent years on a diet that was definitely not optimal and agrguably detrimental.l Also, I would now feel foolish at having followed the advice of mainstream scientists rather than having relied on time honored traditions that have proven themselves effective. It is my impression that scientists are more or less feeling their way in the dark in putting together a new basis for healthy living. First it seemed we needed meat, now it seems meat is not so good. At one time they thought that margarine was a better choice than butter. Now it seems that margarine is just as bad as butter and that olive oil is the fat of choice. Not so long ago it ws even thought that cigarette smoking was healthy because it was relaxing. My point is that scientific findings are not necessarily a good source of advice. Science is definitely a valid method of inquiry and I respect the scientists who work to find ways of making people healthier. But it is relatively young when compared to systems such as ayurveda (which I follow) and ancient Chinese medicine. I feel that what is happening today with homeopathy is similar to what happened over the past fifteen years with vegetarianism. Science will validate homeopathy, but I’m not going to hang around waiting for scientific proof before I take advantage of a system of medicine that is so beneficial to humanity. My own health (both physical and mental) has improved immeasurably since I’ve been using homeopathy. I have seen serious emotional problems alleviated in members of my family because of homeopathy (the young man who takes a remedy to keep his violent behavior in check jokingly refers to it as his placebo, but his mother–who had always been a strong skeptic about homeopathy herself–is amazed and relieved at the results of the treatment). My four year old daughter hasn’t needed antibiotics to get over ear infections, sore throats, etc. Thank you Samuel Hahnemann! Conventional medicine has its place. If I were in a serious car accident I would welcome the tools and methods of emergency technicians. In life-threatening situations we may need what modern medicine has to offer. But allopathic treatments are overprescribed. They should be used only when necessary.l What are we going to do about the antibiotic- resistant strains of bacteria that are developing? (Perhaps the homeopaths will step in and offer some help). When are doctors going to realize that the "cures" they offer usually only cover up the symptoms while adding new misery to patients lives in the form of side effects. Every time I or my daughter have consulted an allopathic doctor because of an ailment the only thing he has had to offer is an antibiotic. The first and only time I gave my daughter antibiotics (at the age of 9 months) her bottem became so sore from the dirrhea that resulted that she screamed every time she urinated. Is that what you would call a *cure*? Yet when I was able to get in touch with my homeopathic doctor the remedy he prescribed worked amazingly well and saved the whole family a lot of pain and emotional distress. But, alas, science has not yet developed to the point where it can deal with a therapy that dilutes remedies to the point where no molecules are left to act. Yes, it certainly is difficult to believe that there can be any cure when there is no sustance to do the curing and the skeptics are right to question this whole business. But I, in turn, would ask why it is so hard to imagine that there may be levels of energy that we haven’t been able to detect with the tools available to us. The electromagnetic spectrum represents a wide array of energy wavelengths, but only a small fraction of those waves are detectable by human senses. Some animals are able to detect energy waves that we cannot. Technology has provided tools that are able to detect wavelengths beyond what humans can detect as well. Is it not then possible that there may be subtle forms of energy that we know nothing of? If so, then should we just ignore any therapy that uses them until science proves their existence? I have seen too much to be able to that myself. And I am saddened when I see people, especially children, suffer from the side effects of conventional medicines when I know there are safer remedies available. To the skeptics I would say continue on your path. You’ll get there in time. It’s just too bad that you have to wait for scientific verification before you can take advantage of all that homeopathy has to offer. I welcome all replies.
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What are the best newsgroups for homeopathy? Ta
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What are the best newsgroups for homeopathy?
The best homeopathy resources are printed in color, on Sundays. — Remove the OBVIOUS
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What are the best newsgroups for homeopathy? The best homeopathy resources are printed in color, on Sundays.
Henry, is this really necessary? We really don’t need any more belittling on this ng. Jan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Remove the OBVIOUS
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Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. I have used it in practice with impressive results. Say what you will but seeing is believing. All the "science" in the world cannot replace real clinical results. It’s odd that health care seems to have more prejudice and narrowmindedness than any other field. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period!
Didn’t work for me when I tried it. And I wasn’t self-medicating; I went to a homeopath who’d been recommended by two other people (who don’t know each other). But, since "it works when used correctly," I guess it must not have been used correctly. What a great scam — heads I win, tails don’t count. These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "After all, this is still the land of opportunity. If you know where to look." – Jack Douglas
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You were doing fine and then you had to add the line about scam . We could benefit from your experience , but not your faulty opinion . but this is the net . And so we have to wade through a lot of crap from folks like David . Hey David do you have any real helpful alternative suggestions for us ? If not , We shall be forced to once again use the delete key ., cause people like you seldom go away when asked to . T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. I have used it in practice with impressive results. Say what you will but seeing is believing. All the "science" in the world cannot replace real clinical results. It’s odd that health care seems to have more prejudice and narrowmindedness than any other field. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period! Didn’t work for me when I tried it. And I wasn’t self-medicating; I went to a homeopath who’d been recommended by two other people (who don’t know each other). But, since "it works when used correctly," I guess it must not have been used correctly. What a great scam — heads I win, tails don’t count. These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "After all, this is still the land of opportunity. If you know where to look." – Jack Douglas
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You were doing fine and then you had to add the line about scam. We could benefit from your experience, but not your faulty opinion.
As someone else pointed out, opinions just are. And in any case, I wasn’t offering an opinion on homeopathy, just on some fool who was stacking the deck by claiming that it always worked when used correctly. As I said, that’s a scam, because if it doesn’t work, you can just turn around and claim it wasn’t used correctly. Heads I win, tails don’t count. but this is the net . And so we have to wade through a lot of crap from folks like David.
Would you like some cheese to go with your whine, o twit who declines to use his/her real name? Hey David do you have any real helpful alternative suggestions for us?
In other articles, yes. Meanwhile, where are all the helpful articles from you? Hardly to be found. Mostly, you just complain. If not , We shall be forced to once again use the delete key .,
Nooooo! Not THE DELETE KEY!! cause people like you seldom go away when asked to . T
Why would I care what *you* want? These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct. "After all, this is still the land of opportunity. If you know where to look." – Jack Douglas
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Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period! What a great scam — heads I win, tails don’t count.
medtools then responded: You were doing fine and then you had to add the line about scam . We could benefit from your experience , but not your faulty opinion .
Opinions aren’t faulty. They simply ARE. And everyone is entitled. Although one should have the courtesy not to try to force one’s opinions on others. but this is the net . And so we have to wade through a lot of crap from folks like David . Hey David do you have any real helpful alternative suggestions for us ? If not , We shall be forced to once again use the delete key ., cause people like you seldom go away when asked to . T
I must say that I agree with David’s response. It was a poignant response to the prior posting by HEALTHGATE (whoever that is). Also, he wasn’t being belligerent, as you just were. — | | | | | | | | Remove the ‘X’ at the end when replying __|_/ _|_/ | | | Destroy the spam bots!
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Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. I have used it in practice with impressive results. Say what you will but seeing is believing. All the "science" in the world cannot replace real clinical results. It’s odd that health care seems to have more prejudice and narrowmindedness than any other field. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period!
You are right on in many cases. We in medacine ask for double-blinded, placebo-controlled studies and only believe the results if we believed them before we had all the data. We use drugs that are maginally proven safe and effective and ignore others that all that and more. "Figures lie and lies figure" "I’ll believe it when I see it -OR- I’ll see it when I believe it" It is amasing what homeopathy has gone through in this country. No, it is NOT a replacement for allopathy or what we would call traditional medicine, but if something has proven time and time again to be much more effective than placebo, without the side effects, then why would we not use it. The answers are to numerous to list here, but it is changing very slowly here in the US. In Europe, homeopathy is used by 1/3 or more of many of the physicians in many of the countries and is believed in by the people. This is a common question. "Do you believe in homeopathy?" Of course, belief has nothing to do with science. It is either clinically proven and is fact or it is not. Belief has little to do with things that can be proven. I thank you for your post and hope that more people and professionals can see both sciences as useful. Neither one is complete without help from the other…Bro39
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Those who dismiss Homeopathy are those who have not used or misused it. I have used it in practice with impressive results. Say what you will but seeing is believing. All the "science" in the world cannot replace real clinical results. It’s odd that health care seems to have more prejudice and narrowmindedness than any other field. Homeopathy works when used correctly…period!
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There are no mailing lists or other resources on the internet devoted specifically to homeopathy that I know of. If you have some questions or comments on homeopathy, please post them in this newsgroup. Homeopathy has been a topic of intense discussion in the past on misc.health.alternative and no doubt it will be again. —
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There is a Special Forum on Homeopathy on the Online Service "Delphi". Richard Sanders
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there is a whole network set up for homeopathy. IGC, called Homeonet.
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Hi, I am new to the Internet but I am interested in Homeopathy and was wondering if there is a mailing list dedicated to Homeopathy or any other newsgroup. Thanks in advance for any help. karen
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