Question:

I AM LOOKING FOR INFO ON LINK BETWEEN LEARNING DISABILITIES AND ASTHMA

Response:

Hi, I have had Asthma for most of my life and I spent my life as a Learning Disabilities Specialist. I don’t of any printed material on Asthma and Learning Disabilities, but over the years I have worked with many children and teenager with asthma with learning  problems of all kinds. What are you looking for Learning Disabilities is a large subject.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I AM LOOKING FOR INFO ON LINK BETWEEN LEARNING DISABILITIES AND ASTHMA

Response:

I can tell you as a special education teacher, many of my students do have asthma.  Children who miss too much school can and do develop learning disabilities.  I see it all the time. Pam

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Question:

One more thing.  To voice all complaints, about the dangers of perfumes, or what they have done to your health, you can email Lark Lambert.  He probably won’t care, as HE is the person who is supposed to see to it that these noxious fumes are regulated by the FDA.  He is one of the jerks getting paid under the Also, if you would like a hard copy of the American Medical Journal, which most doctors don’t even have, with the proof of the toxic effects of fragranced products, call Anderson Laboratories, at 802-295-7344. Also, voice complaints to anyone you can at ABC.com Soon, I will have a new email address, as we are getting a new computer, so feel free to write back to me, if you wish, before the last week of this month. Perfumes used to just bother me.  That was six years ago.  Now I am disabled from repeated exposure to them…as are thousands of other Americans.  This has to stop. Love, Connie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all, I know that the words perfumes and fragrances sounds benign, but they are made of petrochemicals and pesticides and induce asthma and many other health problems, such as neurological problems, headaches, and the list goes on. Not everyone are bothered by them, but thousands of people are.  In fact, with repeated exposure, many are rendered housebound. To read the toxic effects of perfumes (a study done by Anderson Laboratories) please visit this website:  www.andersonlaboratories.com.  You may have to click on hot topics, and then fragrance. Also, the best information in regards to the toxic effects of perfumes, is this webpage, from Betty Bridges, the Head of the Fragrance Product Information Network:   www.ameliaww.com/fpin/fpin.htm A newpaper columist also has a consumer report about perfumes.  You won’t read about it in mainstraim newspapers, or hear about it on news shows, due to sponsorship:   www.dldewey.com/perfume.htm The ingredients in perfumes are not listed, nor are regulated by the FDA.  The websites, above, will give more answers as to why they are not regulated. I hope this helps with people who suffer from asthma.  Asthma, in children, has been on the rise 70%, since 1980, and sythetic toxic chemicals have been in perfumes, since around the very late 80’s.  There is undoubtedly other causes of asthma, I am aware, but people are not informed about perfumes, mostly because it is a multi-billion dollar industry.  Neurologists and ‘most’ doctors, who practice medicine already know. I hope this helps bring about more awareness.  I’m sure there will be people all ready to flame….but please read the websites, first.  I’m only trying to help, by spreading the words that our FDA will not do for us. Best wishes to all, Connie

Connie, Ever checked out AFSDR or Superfund? http://www.epa.gov/region5superfund/sfd_toxic.html Look at the exemptions !!! for hazardous waste and (if memory serves) they cover only 5 or 6 states? <snip Section 3(2) of TSCA defines "chemical substance" to mean any organic or inorganic substance whether it is man-made or naturally occurring. Exemptions are provided for pesticides; tobacco and tobacco products; source, special nuclear, or byproduct material regulated under the Atomic Energy Act (AEA); and food, food    additives, drugs, and cosmetics. However, there is no list of toxic substances provided by TSCA.<snip So if they are exempted, their emissions, spills, dumping, must not be covered in the stats either, right? Not surprised Washington D.C. has cleaned up..That’s where the President lives and wouldn’t want heads of other countries "getting wind" of the real pollution is the great US of A.  (best foot forward..theory). Regards

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To all, I know that the words perfumes and fragrances sounds benign, but they are made of petrochemicals and pesticides and induce asthma and many other health problems, such as neurological problems, headaches, and the list goes on. Not everyone are bothered by them, but thousands of people are.  In fact, with repeated exposure, many are rendered housebound. To read the toxic effects of perfumes (a study done by Anderson Laboratories) please visit this website:  www.andersonlaboratories.com.  You may have to click on hot topics, and then fragrance. Also, the best information in regards to the toxic effects of perfumes, is this webpage, from Betty Bridges, the Head of the Fragrance Product Information Network:   www.ameliaww.com/fpin/fpin.htm A newpaper columist also has a consumer report about perfumes.  You won’t read about it in mainstraim newspapers, or hear about it on news shows, due to sponsorship:   www.dldewey.com/perfume.htm The ingredients in perfumes are not listed, nor are regulated by the FDA.  The websites, above, will give more answers as to why they are not regulated. I hope this helps with people who suffer from asthma.  Asthma, in children, has been on the rise 70%, since 1980, and sythetic toxic chemicals have been in perfumes, since around the very late 80’s.  There is undoubtedly other causes of asthma, I am aware, but people are not informed about perfumes, mostly because it is a multi-billion dollar industry.  Neurologists and ‘most’ doctors, who practice medicine already know. I hope this helps bring about more awareness.  I’m sure there will be people all ready to flame….but please read the websites, first.  I’m only trying to help, by spreading the words that our FDA will not do for us. Best wishes to all, Connie

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Question:

But the cause of death was the undertreated asthma.  If it wasn’t the pollution it would have been the next day’s pollen. let’s try an analogy…you are riding in a car…another car hits yours head on…your seat belt is faulty and you go flying through the windscreen and die…the cause?…the driver of the other car…is the faulty seatbelt something that it would have been better to detect and fix beforehand…yes

Note that the faulty seatbelt is something within your power to detect and correct.  For all practical purposed the accident itself is not (otherwise it would not have occurred). So what do you focus on, those things you can do in order to reduce the effects of, or on things which you have very little control over (and may not do you any good anyway)? that was true of the post that started the thread…but I’ve been responding to your arguments against a follow up post that made no blanket statements and that had links to what seemed to me to be accurately researched information

Actually the information was not accurately researched.  Otherwise they would not have made the claim that pollution is the cause of asthma. that would be true if I could get rid of ALL the allergens in my immediate environment…maybe one day I’ll manage that, but since so far I’ve showed up as having a reaction to everything I’ve been tested for I very much doubt it…but, and I’ve done this, it’s still a good idea to arrange that the neighbours inform me when they are going to have a barbecue or a bonfire so that I can either be away for a while or at least shut my windows

My focus is on controlling the underlying medical condition.  This way I can (with sensible precautions) attend that barbecue. there is no reason to dismiss the impact that pollutants in the environment have on asthma simply because they aren’t the root cause…I would benefit from a drop in the levels of some pollutants…it seems to me that it’s something that I can benefit from learning more about

Learn more about, yes.  Panic over, no.  Just make sure that the people giving the information are giving accurate information.   "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

Response:

Eric and Colin, Just reading over your conversation here. Hope you don’t mind me jumping in. Comment A) Links between an environmental factor and any disease are very hard to prove. Take the recent movie and book "A civil action" (I read the book-did’nt see the movie) where they tried to prove in court that the pullutants in the water caused cancer in a community not far from where I live. One of the arguments against the case was that sometimes in statistics you get cluster effects (condition A in the presence of illness B at a rate of B much higher than expected). Just one example, but in general I’ve read that It is very hard to "directly" link environmental conditions to any specific illness with statistics. Comment B in response to the global warming listed below): At the planetarium this year we saw a show on the sun. In fact this year the sun is at its high for sunspot activity (goes in 11 year cycles). Temperatures are higher globally when sunspot activity is greatest, as they were I believe this year (at least in this area they were).  Therefore, even though I know the ozone layer is having troubles of its own which  theoretically result in greenhouse effects, people always seem to ignore the very very significant effects that solar activity cycles play on global temperature cycles. Chilla

been rising for the past 8000 years?) (Eric answered: this is not strictly true Colin…and is irrelevant…global

temperature fluctuates over millions of years perfectly naturally, this is true, and we are on a natural rise…but the rise over recent years is way above what would be expected in terms of natural tempreature variation…the greenhouse affect is here, has been for decades…no amount of denial and excuses will take it away, it has to be dealt with as a major crisis)

Response:

Actually, there has been research that determined the answer to this exact question.  The study selected two otherwise identical population samples – one in (relatively unpolluted) West Germany and the other in (heavily polluted) East Germany.  The incidence in asthma was identical.

this would be relevant if the type of pollution in East and West Germany had been identical and only the quantity different…since that was not the case the study isn’t relevant if only certain pollutants are responsible for exacerbating asthma Actually the greenhouse effect is still an unproven theory.  And nobody knows enough about atmospheric thermodynamics to predict what the temperature should or should not be.  Nor can the current rise in temperatures be separated form the trends that have preceded the industrial revolution.

the greenhouse effect is a well understood and generally accepted theory…the controversy is about whether it can be applied to the earth’s atmosphere nobody knows enough about stratospheric dynamics to predict tempreature at a specific place…but the behaviour of atmospheric temperature as an average is fairly well understood…I’m going to have to do a bit of research to answer the other point…I’ve seen stuff published and I’ll go find you some references it doesn’t have to…overall level of pollution is irrelevant…though I would question whether it’s the case, and I’d say that asthma isn’t caused instantaneously so historical pollution levels are also important…the question is how have the polluted areas changed in geographical terms, it’s not small areas of high pollution any more it’s spread around the country and hence affects more people…and have the components of that pollution changed, I’d guess there are a wider range of pollutants now than 30 years ago Your theory does not work.  If this were true then we would be able to track an increase in pollution to an increase in asthma rates.  And also areas where pollution has declined would show a corresponding decrease in the incidence of asthma.

no Colin…my whole point is that you are arguing as if pollution was a single chemical with a single effect…you cannot investigate it that way, and comparing an overall level of pollution with incidence of asthma does not prove that individual pollutants have no effect on asthma Besides it has been solidify shown that the root cause of asthma is genetic.

and the triggers are not…that is the point…if you do not ever encounter a trigger for your asthma you will never know you have the condition…so the root cause is genetic…but environmental factors are very important in every other aspect of asthma eric

Response:

this would be relevant if the type of pollution in East and West Germany had been identical and only the quantity different…since that was not the case the study isn’t relevant if only certain pollutants are responsible for exacerbating asthma

Actually the effect of pollution on exacerbating asthma was demonstrated.  The study demonstrated that although the rate of asthma is unchanged, in polluted areas asthma symptoms will be more severe. no Colin…my whole point is that you are arguing as if pollution was a single chemical with a single effect…you cannot investigate it that way, and comparing an overall level of pollution with incidence of asthma does not prove that individual pollutants have no effect on asthma

But the fact is that every study has indicated there is no evidence that pollution causes asthma.  Without supporting evidence, any claim that pollution can cause asthma is nothing more than unfounded speculation. Besides it has been solidify shown that the root cause of asthma is genetic. and the triggers are not…that is the point…if you do not ever encounter a trigger for your asthma you will never know you have the condition…so the root cause is genetic…but environmental factors are very important in every other aspect of asthma

Actually, you have to differentiate between asthma triggers (almost 100% naturally occurring substances) and airway irritants.  The irritants will show their effects on asthmatics because the airways have become hypersensitive to stimuli.  This is an _effect_ of the asthma, not the cause. "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

Response:

Hi I’m involved in a project as part of my degree which requires a summary of the present known environmental causes of Asthma.  Does any one know of any good web sites covering this topic. Thanks in advance — Kevin R. Soulsby http://www.acornusers.org/krsoulsby

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Hi I’m involved in a project as part of my degree which requires a summary of the present known environmental causes of Asthma.  Does any one know of any good web sites covering this topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

Response:

Hi I’m involved in a project as part of my degree which requires a summary of the present known environmental causes of Asthma.  Does any one know of any good web sites covering this topic.

You are eventually going to have to do this anyway; so why not save yourself some time:  Your university has a library.  Therein will be a collection of references to asthma, and the means for acquiring journals not in their collection.  Combine a search of Medline [which they may have on-line in the library] with this resource, and you will have a good handle on your research.  You can also request copies of relevant papers be sent to your library from the NLM.  Websites just aren’t going to cut it in this case. Chris Owens

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Kevin, Check out www.HotEarth.NET: Medical research is gradually piecing together the complex relationship between various sources of environmental pollution and their effects on human health. Now it is becoming clear that global warming may be behind some of the most disturbing developments in public health in recent times, namely the spread of insect-borne diseases and the rise in the incidence of asthma.  St. Louis encephalitis has infected an alarming number of people this fall, and now, for the first time in medical history, West Nile fever, previously unheard of in the U.S., has infected several people in New York and Connecticut. In many ways, however, asthma poses a far more serious and insidious danger to public health.  Over the past 25 years, we have seen an overwhelming statistical rise in the number of cases in the U.S. –since 1980 the number of asthma suffers has risen from 6.7 million to 13.8 million in 1994, a more than 60% increase –currently an estimated 4.8 million children, 7% of children under the age of 18, suffer from asthma –over 5,000 people died from asthma in 1995 alone –between 1985 and 1995 there was a 45.3% increase in the number of asthma deaths –asthma is the #1 cause of school absences from chronic conditions, accounting for an average of 7.3 missed school days annually per victim Now we know that during hot summer days, ozone from fossil fuels mixes with other gases and sunlight in the lower atmosphere to make smog. Ozone is a highly reactive gas and can destroy organic matter–including human lung and airway tissue–by burning through the walls of cells. Scientists know that high concentrations of smog, which usually occur on warm days with high levels of air pollution, can trigger asthma attacks, bronchitis, and other respiratory ailments. We believe that health care providers need to be aware of the complex relationship between, global warming, air pollution, and asthma. That’s why we feel you should be familiar with the problem of global warming and its effects on human health. Recently, the National Environmental Trust, Union of Concerned Scientists, and Physicians for Social Responsibility launched a multi- million dollar national educational campaign to raise awareness of the problem of global warming and to give people a way to register their concerns with elected officials.  A major element of this campaign is a powerful new website at http://www.hotearth.net. I urge you to visit it and see for yourself why the growing problem of global warming threatens the health of so many people and why you, too, need to take a hard look at the facts and the need for action. HOTEarth.NET contains basic information: –the 1990s were the hottest in recorded history –sea levels are rising and flooding coastal areas, including many of the world’s island nations –warmer temperatures are extending the range of many tropical diseases –air pollution, worsened by global warming, may play a significant role in the alarming rise in the incidence of asthma among children. HOTEarth.NET also shows how humans are making global warming worse by pumping millions of pounds of greenhouse gases into the air and trapping more of the sun’s heat. The good news is that www.HOTEARTH.net shows visitors how they can do simple things to help fix this problem–like using public transportation more often and replacing old light bulbs with cost-saving fluorescent ones. HOTEARTH.net also enables visitors to send e-mails and faxes automatically to elected officials.  This feature let’s people tell them that they need to take action on global warming before it’s too late. If you know of patients or others who have asthma, please forward this message to them and anyone else in the field of public health.  Let’s work together to help the next generation get a healthy start on life. Hi I’m involved in a project as part of my degree which requires a summary of the present known environmental causes of Asthma.  Does any one know of any good web sites covering this topic. Thanks in advance — Kevin R. Soulsby http://www.acornusers.org/krsoulsby

Before you buy.

Response:

Kevin, Check out www.HotEarth.NET: Medical research is gradually piecing together the complex relationship between various sources of environmental pollution and their effects on human health.

Do they comment on the research that demonstrated that pollution has no effect on the incidence of asthma?  (Although it can affect the severity?) BTW, the rest of the post sounds like unfounded speculation. P.S. Are you aware that the average yearly temperatures have been rising for the past 8000 years? Can your organization describe why the increase in the incidence of asthma in the US coincides with an overall decrease in pollution? "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kevin, Check out www.HotEarth.NET: Medical research is gradually piecing together the complex relationship between various sources of environmental pollution and their effects on human health. Do they comment on the research that demonstrated that pollution has no effect on the incidence of asthma?  (Although it can affect the severity?) BTW, the rest of the post sounds like unfounded speculation.

sorry to disagree Colin but whilst some is speculation there is a lot of evidence that makes much of it a very reasonable view there is no research that demonstrates that pollution has NO EFFECT on the incidence of asthma…research has concluded that no direct link with the incidence of asthma can be proven, that is a very different thing…and affecting the severity of asthma is important, as are the triggers that are present in much pollution P.S. Are you aware that the average yearly temperatures have been rising for the past 8000 years?

this is not strictly true Colin…and is irrelevant…global temperature fluctuates over millions of years perfectly naturally, this is true, and we are on a natural rise…but the rise over recent years is way above what would be expected in terms of natural tempreature variation…the greenhouse affect is here, has been for decades…no amount of denial and excuses will take it away, it has to be dealt with as a major crisis immediately…and that means cutting the use of the internal combustion engine and less power generation using fossil fuel, and that’s just as a start Can your organization describe why the increase in the incidence of asthma in the US coincides with an overall decrease in pollution?

it doesn’t have to…overall level of pollution is irrelevant…though I would question whether it’s the case, and I’d say that asthma isn’t caused instantaneously so historical pollution levels are also important…the question is how have the polluted areas changed in geographical terms, it’s not small areas of high pollution any more it’s spread around the country and hence affects more people…and have the components of that pollution changed, I’d guess there are a wider range of pollutants now than 30 years ago "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

I think the subject line is unfortunate…the word cause implies a simple cause and effect, and we all know that nothing about asthma is simple…but the poster has a good point to make eric

Response:

sorry to disagree Colin but whilst some is speculation there is a lot of evidence that makes much of it a very reasonable view there is no research that demonstrates that pollution has NO EFFECT on the incidence of asthma…research has concluded that no direct link with the incidence of asthma can be proven, that is a very different thing…and affecting the severity of asthma is important, as are the triggers that are present in much pollution

Actually, there has been research that determined the answer to this exact question.  The study selected two otherwise identical population samples – one in (relatively unpolluted) West Germany and the other in (heavily polluted) East Germany.  The incidence in asthma was identical. this is not strictly true Colin…and is irrelevant…global temperature fluctuates over millions of years perfectly naturally, this is true, and we are on a natural rise…but the rise over recent years is way above what would be expected in terms of natural tempreature variation…the greenhouse affect is here, has been for decades…no amount of denial and excuses will take it away, it has to be dealt with as a major crisis immediately…and that means cutting the use of the internal combustion engine and less power generation using fossil fuel, and that’s just as a start

Actually the greenhouse effect is still an unproven theory.  And nobody knows enough about atmospheric thermodynamics to predict what the temperature should or should not be.  Nor can the current rise in temperatures be separated form the trends that have preceded the industrial revolution. it doesn’t have to…overall level of pollution is irrelevant…though I would question whether it’s the case, and I’d say that asthma isn’t caused instantaneously so historical pollution levels are also important…the question is how have the polluted areas changed in geographical terms, it’s not small areas of high pollution any more it’s spread around the country and hence affects more people…and have the components of that pollution changed, I’d guess there are a wider range of pollutants now than 30 years ago

Your theory does not work.  If this were true then we would be able to track an increase in pollution to an increase in asthma rates.  And also areas where pollution has declined would show a corresponding decrease in the incidence of asthma. Besides it has been solidify shown that the root cause of asthma is genetic. "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

Response:

the other point they were making was that environmental pollution is implicated in deaths by asthma…this logically ties up with increased severity of asthma

But the cause of death was the undertreated asthma.  If it wasn’t the pollution it would have been the next day’s pollen. I live in the Los Angeles basin.  I know that whenever there is ‘unhealthful’ air quality I will feel it.  What I object to is people making blanket statements that are based on supporting a particular cause rather than on factual information. here you are right…I was sloppy…try replacing trigger with airway irritant…my point is that as well as researching the cause it is important to look at factors that affect severity and number of attacks…it’s no good me clearing the house of dust mites and then getting a house full of smoke from the factory just down the road

If you are allergic to dust mites then this will be beneficial. Remember that it is the allergen exposure that places your lungs in a hyper responsive state.  So cleaning you home against dust mites will protect you from the smoke from the factory across the way (or your neighbor’s barbecue). "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

Response:

the other point they were making was that environmental pollution is implicated in deaths by asthma…this logically ties up with increased severity of asthma But the cause of death was the undertreated asthma.  If it wasn’t the pollution it would have been the next day’s pollen.

let’s try an analogy…you are riding in a car…another car hits yours head on…your seat belt is faulty and you go flying through the windscreen and die…the cause?…the driver of the other car…is the faulty seatbelt something that it would have been better to detect and fix beforehand…yes I live in the Los Angeles basin.  I know that whenever there is ‘unhealthful’ air quality I will feel it.  What I object to is people making blanket statements that are based on supporting a particular cause rather than on factual information.

that was true of the post that started the thread…but I’ve been responding to your arguments against a follow up post that made no blanket statements and that had links to what seemed to me to be accurately researched information here you are right…I was sloppy…try replacing trigger with airway irritant…my point is that as well as researching the cause it is important to look at factors that affect severity and number of attacks…it’s no good me clearing the house of dust mites and then getting a house full of smoke from the factory just down the road If you are allergic to dust mites then this will be beneficial. Remember that it is the allergen exposure that places your lungs in a hyper responsive state.  So cleaning you home against dust mites will protect you from the smoke from the factory across the way (or your neighbor’s barbecue).

that would be true if I could get rid of ALL the allergens in my immediate environment…maybe one day I’ll manage that, but since so far I’ve showed up as having a reaction to everything I’ve been tested for I very much doubt it…but, and I’ve done this, it’s still a good idea to arrange that the neighbours inform me when they are going to have a barbecue or a bonfire so that I can either be away for a while or at least shut my windows there is no reason to dismiss the impact that pollutants in the environment have on asthma simply because they aren’t the root cause…I would benefit from a drop in the levels of some pollutants…it seems to me that it’s something that I can benefit from learning more about eric

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this would be relevant if the type of pollution in East and West Germany had been identical and only the quantity different…since that was not the case the study isn’t relevant if only certain pollutants are responsible for exacerbating asthma Actually the effect of pollution on exacerbating asthma was demonstrated.  The study demonstrated that although the rate of asthma is unchanged, in polluted areas asthma symptoms will be more severe. no Colin…my whole point is that you are arguing as if pollution was a single chemical with a single effect…you cannot investigate it that way, and comparing an overall level of pollution with incidence of asthma does not prove that individual pollutants have no effect on asthma But the fact is that every study has indicated there is no evidence that pollution causes asthma.  Without supporting evidence, any claim that pollution can cause asthma is nothing more than unfounded speculation.

whilst the thread was started by a post positing environmental causes of asthma…I started this as a response to your reply to a post about environmental effects on the incidence of asthma…in which case I’m sure you would agree that asthma is more likely to be diagnosed when it is more severe…since figures for the incidence of asthma rely on it being diagnosed then there is a relationship…and asthma that is rarely triggered is not a major problem the other point they were making was that environmental pollution is implicated in deaths by asthma…this logically ties up with increased severity of asthma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Besides it has been solidify shown that the root cause of asthma is genetic. and the triggers are not…that is the point…if you do not ever encounter a trigger for your asthma you will never know you have the condition…so the root cause is genetic…but environmental factors are very important in every other aspect of asthma Actually, you have to differentiate between asthma triggers (almost 100% naturally occurring substances) and airway irritants.  The irritants will show their effects on asthmatics because the airways have become hypersensitive to stimuli.  This is an _effect_ of the asthma, not the cause.

here you are right…I was sloppy…try replacing trigger with airway irritant…my point is that as well as researching the cause it is important to look at factors that affect severity and number of attacks…it’s no good me clearing the house of dust mites and then getting a house full of smoke from the factory just down the road eric

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Question:

I have a 4 year old daughter that has had asthma since she was 2.  It seemed she had her attacks every month, and she would easily catch colds.  Until one day a friend of my introduced me to these wonderful herbal products.  I started giving her the advanced antioxidant therapy, every day.  I found out that they were working, because for three month straight she did not experienced an attack, until recently that I was out of town and my mom stoped giving them to her.  About 4 days later she got an attack, and my husband had to take her to the doctors, and put her back to the neubulisor for a few days.  I immediately put her back with the antioxidant, and in a few days she was fine.  I really believe in these products, because what use to take weeks now only took days to clear her asthma.   If you want information about the products, e-mail me at

Response:

Actually my son is still on cromolyn.  It is now in liquid form that is given via neb. — "I’m an original species, More enlightened than Nietzsche." –Audio Adrenaline, "Original Species" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually the first preventor drug usually prescribed in children is inhaled Intal (cromolyn); derived from an Egyptian herb. Side effects are minimal in most. Side effects are minimal as are the EFFECTS of cromolyn.  I was on that drug back in the early 70’s.  For those not familiar with that drug, it came in a capsule that you would place in the center of your inhaler.  You would then slide the inhaler to activate 2 metal prongs that would puncture the top of the capsule.  When you used the inhaler, you were activating a propeller type mechanism that the capsule sat in, and the centrifugal force spun the medicine out of the capsule and down in to your lungs. Excuse my French, but it didn’t do a goddamned thing except make me cough each time I took it on the first "puff" because it was an inhaled power.  It took a lot of will power to hold back the cough on the remaining 3 or 4 puffs. The problem with herbicidal treatments is more so that they just don’t work rather than causing adverse problems. Keep in mind that cromolyn is no longer used as a treatment.  This was almost 30 years ago!  Treatments have improved 1000x since then and are still improving. However this is no time to experiment with unregulated herbs; tho certain Chinese herbs have been used for ‘rescue’, they are of unknown purity and strength, plus have bad side effects, and don’t treat the underlying inflammation. Absolutely.

Response:

My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can.

Well, if he has asthma – he has asthma.  You have to face that fact.  It’s very unlikely that it will just go away.  Some people outgrow it, but it isn’t that common. If he had leukemia, would you opt for conventional treatment or some voo-doo type stuff?  That may be a harsh analogy, but both diseases are very real and require real medicine to treat them. 3 times a day sounds like a lot of medicine, but if you are uncomfortable, always get a 2nd medical opinion. One thing is for sure, do your son a favor and keep him off any of these silly herbicidal treatments.  He’ll be a miserable little boy who won’t be able to play because his asthma isn’t being treated properly.

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My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can. Actually the first preventor drug usually prescribed in children is inhaled Intal (cromolyn); derived from an Egyptian herb. Side effects are minimal in most.

Side effects are minimal as are the EFFECTS of cromolyn.  I was on that drug back in the early 70’s.  For those not familiar with that drug, it came in a capsule that you would place in the center of your inhaler.  You would then slide the inhaler to activate 2 metal prongs that would puncture the top of the capsule.  When you used the inhaler, you were activating a propeller type mechanism that the capsule sat in, and the centrifugal force spun the medicine out of the capsule and down in to your lungs.   Excuse my French, but it didn’t do a goddamned thing except make me cough each time I took it on the first "puff" because it was an inhaled power.  It took a lot of will power to hold back the cough on the remaining 3 or 4 puffs. The problem with herbicidal treatments is more so that they just don’t work rather than causing adverse problems. Keep in mind that cromolyn is no longer used as a treatment.  This was almost 30 years ago!  Treatments have improved 1000x since then and are still improving. However this is no time to experiment with unregulated herbs; tho certain Chinese herbs have been used for ‘rescue’, they are of unknown purity and strength, plus have bad side effects, and don’t treat the underlying inflammation.

Absolutely.

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Kenny My son was also diagnosed at 3 years of age with mild asthma. Our pediatrician recommended us to an allergist. After basic allergy tests revealed no allergys put him on preventative doses of "Flovent". We started out at twice a day and have improved to once a day. He has done well enough that he discontinued the preventive treatments this past summer. He is back now to one dose once a day because the Fall is his worst season. He has done remarkable well. Keep a positive thought. Judy My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can.

Before you buy.

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I’d second Sue’s opinion on this! My son too has severe asthma, he is under 2 and was diagnosed at 9months of age. There are NO herbal remedies that work…if you go that route you are surely to end up in the ER! Asthma can be tricky even with the traditional medications we have been to ER tons of times…until the asthma specialist found a dose that seems keep him more or less "controlled"…though this doesn’t mean no asthma attacks it just means that the ones he has are managable. Even under the best of times asthma maybe hard to manage. It is important that you get educated and that you really follow the plan that your asthma specialist suggests!  (after all they have the training in this area) of course you also need to follow common sense too. If you feel something is amiss than you are probably right…only you know your child best. Good luck with it all this! If you have any specific questions about childhood asthma that I may know the answer to… feel free to email me directly. Otherwise… This newsgroup is a wonderful place to come and learn! Between all the minds here I’m sure any of your questions can be answered!!! The people here are great! Vicky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can. ARRRGH!!  It will Not Hurt Your Child to follow doctor’s orders with asthma. It WILL Hurt Your Child to go hairing off into alternative medicines which probably won’t help, will almost certainly cause harm, and might even endanger his life. Taking medicine ‘indefinitely’ on a preventive basis sounds like the right course for your child. If you delay treatment, you stand a very good chance of letting his asthma get so severe that he will be in danger of a critical or even fatal attack. Asthma, if caught early and treated aggressively CAN be controled.  Delaying treatment is Not A Good Idea. Sue, who wishes she’d understood this when first diagnosed with asthma Official Secretary of OSGSL Dogs think they’re human Cats think they’re God

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My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can.

The medications your doctor wants your son to take have been scientifically demonstrated to be both safe and effective for the treatment of asthma. The reason that the ‘alternative’ treatments remain as ‘alternative’ is because they cannot be demonstrated to be safe or effective for the treatment of asthma. Yes there are herbs that open the airways.  In fact the drug found in one of these herbs has been studied, purified, altered to reduce side effects and increase safety, found to be safe, found to be effective, and marketed as ‘albuterol.’ The problem is that the original drug is in no way safe.  But the people who are after the contents of your wallet will sell it to you, do you think they care about your son’s health? "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

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Hi, I also have a son Ryan who has asthma. He has been on prevenitive meds since he was 6 months old. He has never had a really severe asthma attack. I would listen to the doctor. If your son turns out to be allergic to any of the herbs the results could be a disaster.. The doctor knows what he is doing as far as the asthma goes. Don’t gamble with your child’s health. Janice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can.

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My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can.

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My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can.

ARRRGH!!  It will Not Hurt Your Child to follow doctor’s orders with asthma. It WILL Hurt Your Child to go hairing off into alternative medicines which probably won’t help, will almost certainly cause harm, and might even endanger his life. Taking medicine ‘indefinitely’ on a preventive basis sounds like the right course for your child.   If you delay treatment, you stand a very good chance of letting his asthma get so severe that he will be in danger of a critical or even fatal attack. Asthma, if caught early and treated aggressively CAN be controled.  Delaying treatment is Not A Good Idea. Sue, who wishes she’d understood this when first diagnosed with asthma Official Secretary of OSGSL Dogs think they’re human Cats think they’re God

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My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can.

why Kenny? Priority 1…make sure your son stays alive…don’t let any prejudices get in the way of this…and as for cost, there is NO cure…got that…no cure, anyone selling you snake oil that claims to cure asthma is a liar, a cheat, a fraudster and is prepared for your son to die in order to increase their bank balance…it would be nice if we could all take a magical herbal powder and be cured for ever…it ain’t so so…first make sure that your doctor takes your son through all the tests…work out a basic programme of controlling the asthma with a preventative inhaler and find a rescue inhaler that suits him…meanwhile start looking for the things that trigger your son’s asthma…start by getting dust in the house down to a minimum, you will find lot’s of ideas about such things in this newsgroup…look at his diet…ask about allergy testing…learn a bit about what is actually happening with his asthma so that you can stay calm when he has an attack, so that you can help work out if you can help by changes in lifestyle (sounds silly for a child that age, but I can’t think of another word), and so that you can teach him to take control of his asthma as he grows old enough all the above are things that have been proven to help in the majority of cases…another thing to learn is that every single asthmatic has a unique condition, what works for one is never guaranteed to work for another…you have to start by playing the percentages and going for the generally applicable stuff and slowly weeding out the things that don’t help and adding in the more obscure things that do don’t expect quick and simple answers…if there were any then this newsgroup wouldn’t exist good luck eric

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seeking herbal or ANY form of non-traditional care for your son’s asthma may well be a death sentence.  HIS healthcare is in your hands at this point.  I might also caution you that in many locales in the US, failure to allow treatment can (in the absence of a religious beliefs) be suggestive of neglect and endagerment which a physician and/or ER would be required to report.   Bottom line is that you should seek to only have care that is recognized as beneficial and has been studied with sound scientific principles.  There are many sources of asthma education on the internet, along with the standards prescribed guidelines accepted by the American Association for Pediatrics and the CDC….. Good luck, if there is anything we can do to help please feel free to ask…… Scooby RCP, EMT-P Perinatal-Pediatric Respiratory Specialist This mail is a natural product.  The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

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My 3 year old son was just diagnosed yesterday with asthma.  His doctor is a specialist in this area and thinks that Ryan is going to have a rough go. He wants to start Ryan on preventitive medicine that he has to take 3 times a day, every day indefinitely.  I wanted to know if anyone has experienced success with alternative forms of medicine.  I’ve recently read that some herbs are known for opening the airways.  Please help with providing any information you can.

Use the medication your doctor provided.  There is NO form of alternative medicine, especially herbs, that is as safe and effective. Chris Owens

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Question:

My son (no almost was breast-fed exclusively for 9 months and is moderate-to-severe, of the intrinsic, non-allergic variety. No known hereditary links, not a premie, not a minority, not the slightest bit overweight, nothing we can point to at all as the probable origin. I’ve rehashed every move I made during my pregnancy so many times; just have to give up that need for a reason and keep focused on the treatment. Jeanne http://asthmatrack.net/

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That’s funny, I fed my 11 mo brest milk for 4 months and he still wound up with mild to moderate asthma.  This was followed up by RSV and pneumonia this last winter.  Go figure.

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  Source:  JAMA, The Journal of the American Medical Association, June 16,             1999 v281 i23 p2171.     Title:  Why the Rise in Asthma? New Insight, Few Answers.(Medical News &             Perspectives)    Author:  Mike Mitka  Subjects:  Asthma – Conferences, meetings, seminars, etc. Full Text COPYRIGHT 1999 American Medical Association. All Rights Reserved. SAN DIEGO–As the prevalence of asthma increases, the medical community continues to seek causes and treatment and prevention strategies. Asthma was a key topic at the 1999 International Conference of the American Lung Association and American Thoracic Society, held here in April, which had more than 16 000 attendees, including more than 6400 from outside the United States. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that in 1998, approximately 17 299 000 people in the United States, or 6.4% of the population, self-reported having asthma. The CDC also noted that between 1980 and 1994, the number of people self-reporting asthma grew 75%. And it’s not just a US problem- speakers said that asthma prevalence is increasing in many of the richer industrialized countries, although it disproportionately affects more in the poor communities of these nations. PUBLIC HEALTH STYMIED Speaking at the San Diego meeting, Surgeon General David Satcher, MD, PhD, praised the nation’s efforts to improve public health in many arenas, such as increasing childhood immunization rates, decreasing teenage pregnancy rates, and attacking tobacco use. But he singled out asthma as one condition in which public health efforts are not working. "We’re moving in the wrong direction, especially among minority children in the urban communities," Satcher said at a press conference. Among the reasons asthma prevalence continues to rise, Satcher noted an increase in a sedentary lifestyle that helps to increase obesity, and he added that in many urban areas, children spend more time indoors, where they’re exposed to poor ventilation and indoor allergens. He said the federal government is making a major commitment to asthma three ways: increasing overall research funding, working to improve intervention and prevention techniques, and focusing on the disproportionate impact asthma has on minorities and the poor. New insights into childhood asthma were a welcome feature of the meeting. Wendy H. Oddy and colleagues at the TVW Telethon Institute for Child Health Research in Perth, Western Australia, found a "substantial reduction in risk" of childhood asthma at age 6 years in children who had been exclusively breast-fed for at least the first 4 months of life. This cohort study involved 2834 Australian children enrolled prior to birth and followed prospectively to age 6. The researchers found that children who received milk other than breast milk in the first 4 months of life were more likely to develop physician diagnosed asthma and atopic disease and have more frequent and severe symptoms than children who were fed breast milk exclusively. Oddy’s study didn’t look for an explanation for the advantages of breast milk, but she speculated that with researchers just beginning to understand the importance of bioactive factors in that substance, feeding it to children is important. "Human infants are quite immature, and they really need as much help as they can get in the first few months of life to develop fully their immune systems," she said. "And that’s why it’s so important that infants are given that opportunity by receiving their mothers’ milk to get the very best protective and immunological factors." ANOTHER CONSIDERATION Tempering the claims by the Australian researchers was work presented by Anne Wright, PhD, and colleagues in the departments of pediatrics and pharmacology at the University of Arizona College of Medicine. Wright presented data showing that the odds of developing asthma were 4.8 times higher for breast-fed children whose mothers had asthma compared with mothers without asthma whether they were breast-fed or not. The study looked at 1069 children assessed in the prospective Tucson Children’s Respiratory Study. Feeding data were obtained through well-child visits and by questionnaire, and respiratory symptoms questionnaires were completed for the children at ages 2, 3, 6, 8, and 11 years. The investigators found no simple relationship with asthma at age 11 for the group as a whole, but did find the percentage of children developing asthma increased with an increased duration of breast-feeding by mothers with asthma. Breast-feeding by allergic mothers is associated with higher IgE and sensitization to Alternaria, the main allergen associated with asthma in children, Wright’s paper stated. The Arizona team concluded that there’s little consensus regarding the relationship of infant feeding and the development of asthma because of a variety of factors, including differing definitions of asthma, "mixed" feeders classified as breast feeders, lack of objective markers of asthma, differing definitions of family history, and lack of adjustment for confounders. In another study involving older children, researchers at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston found that obesity may increase the risk of developing asthma. Carlos Camargo, MD, said that body mass index (BMI) has a positive association with the risk of developing asthma, and that children in the highest group of BMI were roughly twice as likely to develop the disease as those in the lower group of BMI during 1 year of follow-up. The researchers examined data from 16862 US boys and girls between the ages of 9 and 14 in the 1996 Growing Up Today Study and speculated that the increasing prevalence of obesity in developed nations may help explain concomitant increases in asthma.                                 — End —

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Question:

betty…@mindspring.com (Betty Martini) writes:

[the usual sort of obsessional dreck she comes up with] Fuck off, crank. With enemies like you the chemical industry doesn’t need friends. —> email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <— Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

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On Sat, 10 Jul 1999 17:02:53 GMT, betty…@mindspring.com (Betty Martini) wrote: >As to asthma, its epidemic I think for two reasons, (1) no one with >asthma should use dairy products because it has casein in it, its like >glue to the respiratory system.  

No, it isn’t.  This OWT keeps surfacing.  The only reasons to avoid dairy are if you are sensitive to one of the components of dairy products. >Also, H. J. Roberts, M.D., who has declared Aspartame Disease >to be a world epidemic says in his books that aspartame >(NutraSweet/Equal) also plays a part because of its effect on the >respiratory system.  

Your doctor is so far gone down the garden path that he doesn’t even know what an epidemic IS, and you trust him to pass out nutritional advice.  Yes, there are people who should not take aspartame; it is not, however, a general toxin. Chris Owens

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Note this is a FREE non commercial project. I am collecting info on allergy resources/treatments. I can send this to you if you are interested. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For further details on natural remedies for allergies and other > illnesses send an email to me.

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As to asthma, its epidemic I think for two reasons, (1) no one with asthma should use dairy products because it has casein in it, its like glue to the respiratory system.  You might check out the NotMilk web site.  Also, H. J. Roberts, M.D., who has declared Aspartame Disease to be a world epidemic says in his books that aspartame (NutraSweet/Equal) also plays a part because of its effect on the respiratory system.   August 28, l999 is Aspartame Awareness Day and you can get our warning flyer to distribute by emailing fl…@dorway.com with nothing in message text or subject line.  You can get a copy of the FDA report of 92 symptoms triggered by aspartame including 4 types of seizure to coma and death, and a map of the 500 pages on www.dorway.com by emailing h…@dorway.com Regards, Betty You can get Dr. Roberts books and tapes at 1 800 – 814-9800. Neuro surgeon Russell Blaylock, M.D., says in a lecture on www.dorway.com that the reactions to aspartame are not allergic but toxic lik arsenic and cyanide.  His book Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills about aspartame you canrt at 1 800 -643-2665   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -bo…@purr.demon.co.uk (bogus address) wrote: >Ray <goldendiscov…@ukmax.com> writes: >> Daily Mail July 12 1999 >> The epidemic in asthma among children may be linked to eating fast >> foods, researchers claim. Rates of asthma have doubled in 20 years, >> at the same time as consumption of fats found in some cooking oils, >> margarines, biscuits, cakes and chips has soared. >The kind of diet that has lots of this stuff also tends to be low in >vitamin A, zinc, magnesium, manganese, fluorine, soluble fibre and >vitamin C, while being loaded with artificial colourings, flavourings >and preservatives. >I suspect anybody who thinks they’ve found *the* cause of the asthma >epidemic is kidding themselves.  The mega-agri-food businesses of the >advanced capitalist economies have been shovelling so much shit down >the throats of children in the last generation that we will probably >*never* identify all its damaging consequences.  No doubt the food >industry’s researchers would like to believe they’re going to find >some single cause they can focus all their efforts on, and have their >paymasters then sell us New! Improved! Trans-Fat-Free! foods at only >twice the price.  Pigs (with unsaturated lard) might fly. >—> email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <— >Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 >http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, >freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

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Ray <goldendiscov…@ukmax.com> writes: > Daily Mail July 12 1999 > The epidemic in asthma among children may be linked to eating fast > foods, researchers claim. Rates of asthma have doubled in 20 years, > at the same time as consumption of fats found in some cooking oils, > margarines, biscuits, cakes and chips has soared.

The kind of diet that has lots of this stuff also tends to be low in vitamin A, zinc, magnesium, manganese, fluorine, soluble fibre and vitamin C, while being loaded with artificial colourings, flavourings and preservatives. I suspect anybody who thinks they’ve found *the* cause of the asthma epidemic is kidding themselves.  The mega-agri-food businesses of the advanced capitalist economies have been shovelling so much shit down the throats of children in the last generation that we will probably *never* identify all its damaging consequences.  No doubt the food industry’s researchers would like to believe they’re going to find some single cause they can focus all their efforts on, and have their paymasters then sell us New! Improved! Trans-Fat-Free! foods at only twice the price.  Pigs (with unsaturated lard) might fly. —> email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <— Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

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Daily Mail July 12 1999 The epidemic in asthma among children may be linked to eating fast foods, researchers claim. Rates of asthma have doubled in 20 years, at the same time as consumption of fats found in some cooking oils, margarines, biscuits, cakes and chips has soared. Studies of the European countries now appear to have established a connection between the intake of trans fatty acids and the incidence of allergic conditions such as asthma and eczema. On in seven British children aged between two and 15 needs treatment for asthma and wheezing attacks. That represents about 1.5 million. The new research published in The Lancet medical journal, looked at the prevalence of asthma, allergic rhinoconjunctivitis and eczema in 13 to 14 year olds in 55 study centres across Europe, including some in Britain. They found that where fat intake was higher, asthma symptoms rose. Trans fatty acids occur naturally in certain foods such as butter, milk,lamb and beef, but are also produced during the processing and heating of vegetable oils. The process, called hydrogenation, is used to transform oils from liquid to semi-solid. The researchers, from universities in Germany and New Zealand, said the link between the fats and asthma was strongest for foods containing hydrogenated vegetable fat, such as margarines, biscuits, cakes and chips. They claim the effect of trans fatty acids on the immune system, in particular on the way inflammation is controlled, could be the mechanism responsible. Professor Anthony Seaton, of Aberdeen University, who suggested that diet might be responsible for rising levels of asthma in the early 1990s, said the research supported his theory.

Question:

I have a question re: allergic vs. nonallergic asthma. Am I right about the following? Symptoms Allergic symptoms are runny nose, itchy watery eyes while nonallergic are wheezing and/or coughing. Triggers Allergic-mites, pollen,mold, etc. while nonallergic is colds, resp. infection. Diagnosis Allergic- skin test, while nonallergic is harder to determine. Thanks in advance.

Some books that I have read claim that the terms "allergic" and "non-allergic" asthma are outmoded.  I’m not a specialist, so I don’t know about that. The way I understand it is this:  You can have allergies.  You can have asthma.  You can have both or neither.  And, your allergies and asthma may or may not be related. Often, it is next to impossible to figure out what triggers asthma.  If you are lucky, you will discover, thru careful trial and error, what makes things worse or better.  For me (and, I’ll bet, for a lot of readers here), it is hit or miss — what works sometimes does not always work, and I have no idea what makes my asthma better or worse (environment-wise). I have cough-variant asthma, and have never been an "allergic" type person. However, in attempting to get some control over this asthma, after my very worse attack a little over two years ago, my pulmonary doc recommended allergy testing. The allergy testing was positive for a few things (mostly the indoor stuff — dog pelt, cat fur, dust mites, cockroach, etc.).  I take the normal precautions — covered bedding, no overstuffed furniture, keeping down the dust, etc.  My doctor recommended immunotherapy. He correctly warned me that there was no guarantee that any of the allergens I tested positive to had a negative effect on my asthma.  He added that there was no guarantee that the immunotherapy would even help my asthma. But, that previous asthma attack had been so disabling, I was willing to take a chance. After two years of this, I still have no good idea if the immunotherapy is helping.  I have had one moderately bad attack since I began the immunotherapy, and a few minor attacks.  However, even prior to the immunotherapy, my attacks could be two months apart, or five years apart, and varied in severity. Who knows? My point being that it is probably worth it to do the allergy testing, and it is probably good for anyone, and especially asthmatics, to avoid allergens. I hope you find these comments at least a little useful. -GD

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My son, who is 2, has been diagnosed by our ped.  Until we see the specialist, I have a question re: allergic vs. nonallergic asthma. Am I right about the following? Symptoms Allergic symptoms are runny nose, itchy watery eyes while nonallergic are wheezing and/or coughing. Triggers Allergic-mites, pollen,mold, etc. while nonallergic is colds, resp. infection. Diagnosis Allergic- skin test, while nonallergic is harder to determine. Thanks in advance.

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I like what you had to say but I might have to disagree with it being hard to diagnose non-allergy asthma. That is what my son has had since he was 18 months and he is now five. Since a cold or viral infection is the only thing that triggers it we are well aware when he will have asthma. We had to watch him at first to see what his triggers might be as with both kinds but i think once you see a pattern of having colds turn into wheezing it is easy to see what kind it is. I would think that with allergies unless you go through the allergy testing which can be very difficult for children you would have a harder time telling what exacting they are allergic to that is causing the asthma. You can’t really tell what kind of pollen or food or etc. might be causing  it if they are exposed to all of these things on a regular basis without the testing. I would think you could get a good idea if the attack happens around a certain thing but some can have an attack right away or a little time after. I hope i didn’t confuse you but I just wanted to give my opinion. thanks barb

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My son, who is 2, has been diagnosed by our ped.  Until we see the specialist, I have a question re: allergic vs. nonallergic asthma. Am I right about the following? Symptoms Allergic symptoms are runny nose, itchy watery eyes while nonallergic are wheezing and/or coughing.

You are discussing three different manifestations of allergy. Runny nose could be allergic or nonallergic RHINITIS (hayfever). Itchy watery eyes could be allergic or nonallergic CONJUNCTIVITIS. Wheezing or coughing are common in both allergic and non allergic ASTHMA; tho coughing rather than wheezing may be more common in nonallergic asthma. Note that most asthma in children is allergy related, especially if either parent has allergies. Other manifestation of allergy include eczema and hives, tho some of these may be nonallergic. Triggers Allergic-mites, pollen,mold, etc. while nonallergic is colds, resp. infection.

Triggers for nonallergic asthma are irritants like dust and infections, among other things; also cold dry air. Triggers for allergic asthma include all of above plus allergens like dust mites, pollen, mold. Diagnosis Allergic- skin test, while nonallergic is harder to determine.

Asthma in toddlers is hard to diagnose and is often called RAD (reactive airways disease). Many outgrow it as their airways increase in size. Skin and blood (RAST) tests for allergy do not prove asthma. Asthma is diagnosed using lung function tests; hard to do in a toddler. Thanks in advance.

A link: http://www.aaaai.org/public/publicedmat/tips/tip20.html CHILDHOOD ASTHMA (AAAAI) A good book on the subject is ‘The Asthma Sourcebook’, Francis Adams, MD Also check out the FAQ for this newsgroup at: http://www.radix.net/~mwg/asthma-gen.html  alt.support.asthma FAQ Ellis

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Question:

David My own experiences have led me to avoid processed foods, excessive sugars, msg in large doses, and I do believe I feel better. Hi potency multi-vitamins are a must. I have not gone as extreme as your chiro recommended, but I should. I have a a aquaintence that tried a similar course as a last resort, and their child, who was sick all the time, is healthy now. Traditional medicine did not help my friend’s child at all. Chuck

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Also, can anyone tell me what the supplements are for? The supplements are to make the chiropractor a profit.  The diet is unnecessary unless your daughter is allergic to something in it.  Whilst chiropractors may be excellent at joint manipulation, they are not good sources of treatment for asthma.  BTW, you should talk to your doctor about having your daughter premedicate before exercise.

I’m not clear how you jumped to the chiropractor’s motive as profit. The original poster did not indicate this person SOLD any of the prescribed suppliments.  I just assumed this father would have to go down to the local GNC store for them.  Do chiropractors typically sell supplements? I agree about the allergy.  It won’t do anything unless she is allergic (or has any kind of insulin stability problem-sugar can affect this without an allergy being present).  But in cases of allergy investigation, this sounds like a typical starting point.  Remove everything suspected and bring them back one at a time.  But this definitely sounds like a job for an allergist, not a layman (even under the advice of someone who claims to know-our chiropractor in question).  way too radical for a child unless the symptoms are severe-this sounds like the cure is worse than the disease.  My $.02. — -Doug Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.

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I ask this question on behalf of my 11 year old daughter – an active soccer player, rhythmic gymnast and figure skater. She has had several bouts with exercise-induced asthma attacks, mostly on the soccer field and ice rink. They are not necessarily severe and there has never been an episode outside of strenuous physical activity. A pirbuterol accetate inhaler provides pretty quick relief. Recently, however, while rehab-ing a nagging ankle injury (stress fracture, soft tissue impingement or ostrigonum – we’re not completely sure) we were referred to a doctor of chiropracty. He is reputable in the chiropractic world and treats other gymnasts and skaters we know. In routine questioning, the issue of asthma came up and he somehow linked her diet to the condition. He claimed that dairy products, wheat and sugar were to blame for elevated levels of mucus in her bronchial lining which harbored and cultured bacteria responsible for the episodes. He has recommend that we remove all dairy products (milk, cheese, yogurt, meat, etc.), wheat (bread, cereal, bagels, etc.) and sugar (gatorade included!) from her diet and put her on soy-derivatives (tofu, rice milk, etc.), gluten-free buckwheat or rice breads and almond butter. No more peanut butter sandwiches, Harvest Bars, glasses of milk (skim of course), gatorade and the list goes on. In addition, he has prescribed quite a few supplements like colostrum powder, digestive enzymes, flax seed oil, lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidobacterium. The diet change is pretty drastic for an 11-year old and before we force this new way of eating on her, I was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience with diet-triggered (or cured), exercise-induced asthma? If so, has dietary modification worked? Would you recommend this as a remedy and, if so, can you also recommend diet plans, recipes and STORES that carry these dietary specialties (we’ve found a local grocery store that has 1/2 an isle dedicated to this type of stuff but the selection is not very big). Also, can anyone tell me what the supplements are for? Thanks a lot for any advice/experiences. ……. David

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Recently, however, while rehab-ing a nagging ankle injury (stress fracture, soft tissue impingement or ostrigonum – we’re not completely sure) we were referred to a doctor of chiropracty. He is reputable in the chiropractic world and treats other gymnasts and skaters we know. In routine questioning, the issue of asthma came up and he somehow linked her diet to the condition. He claimed that dairy products, wheat and sugar were to blame for elevated levels of mucus in her bronchial lining which harbored and cultured bacteria responsible for the episodes.

Unless your daughter has been diagnosed with a food allergy then she should eat the same diet that is healthy for anybody else.  The excess levels of mucous in asthma are a result of airways inflammation which is driven by the ‘allergic cascade.’   Chiropractors are not trained in medicine.  In fact I am surprised that you are going to one for a possible bone or soft tissue injury as they are really only trained to treat simple cases of back pain.  (And long term chiropractic treatment of back pain has been found to be just as effective as no treatment). In general, chiropractors believe a lot of strange things – because they are not really trained in medicine. The best thing to do is take your daughter to a registered physical therapist and get your medical advice from a real doctor. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." Einstein

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I ask this question on behalf of my 11 year old daughter – an active soccer player, rhythmic gymnast and figure skater. She has had several bouts with exercise-induced asthma attacks, mostly on the soccer field and ice rink. They are not necessarily severe and there has never been an episode outside of strenuous physical activity. A pirbuterol accetate inhaler provides pretty quick relief.

Yes, the prescription bronchodilator inhaler pirbuterol (Maxair) is one of the 4 drugs recommended for rescue and exercise. Recently, however, while rehab-ing a nagging ankle injury (stress fracture, soft tissue impingement or ostrigonum – we’re not completely sure) we were referred to a doctor of chiropracty. He is reputable in the chiropractic world and treats other gymnasts and skaters we know.

Chiropractors are not licensed as MDs (medical doctors) and cannot prescribe prescription drugs like pirbuterol. In routine questioning, the issue of asthma came up and he somehow linked her diet to the condition.

Really!!! What was his rational? He claimed that dairy products, wheat and sugar were to blame for elevated levels of mucus in her bronchial lining which harbored and cultured bacteria responsible for the episodes.

If she has food allergies or intolerances, these should be determined by proper tests. The specialist qualified to determine this is an allergist (MD). Blood (RAST) and skin tests can be run by the allergist to determine her allergies. This is always a good idea with a child with asthma, so she knows what allergens to avoid. Food allergies are not a common cause of asthma or rhinitis (hay fever). Common allergens are pollen, dust mites, mold. Both allergens and irritants like smoke can trigger asthma. He has recommend that we remove all dairy products (milk, cheese, yogurt, meat, etc.), wheat (bread, cereal, bagels, etc.) and sugar (gatorade included!) from her diet and put her on soy-derivatives (tofu, rice milk, etc.), gluten-free buckwheat or rice breads and almond butter. No more peanut butter sandwiches, Harvest Bars, glasses of milk (skim of course), gatorade and the list goes on. In addition, he has prescribed quite a few supplements like colostrum powder, digestive enzymes, flax seed oil, lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidobacterium. The diet change is pretty drastic for an 11-year old and before we force this new way of eating on her, I was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience with diet-triggered (or cured), exercise-induced asthma?

Asthma is not cured by drastic diet modifications like this, unless it can be shown she has allergies or intolerances to all these foods. Asthma is controlled by prescription asthma drugs like pirbuterol. She should be eating a balanced diet according to the Food Pyramid. For example, deleting milk from her diet could cause osteoprosis in later years. She could develop an allergy to soy products. If so, has dietary modification worked?

In general diet does not cause asthma in children over 5 and adults. Infants and toddlers tend to have a lot of allergies before their immune systems develop; it could be implicated there. Would you recommend this as a remedy and, if so, can you also recommend diet plans, recipes and STORES that carry these dietary specialties (we’ve found a local grocery store that has 1/2 an isle dedicated to this type of stuff but the selection is not very big). Also, can anyone tell me what the supplements are for?

There is a writeup on supplements in the March ‘99 issue of Consumer Reports. ‘Herbal Rx, The Promises and Pitfalls’ Supplements are basically an unregulated industry with no guarantees of safety, purity, or even strength of the dose in a particular package. Many health professionals sell supplements on the side to enhance their income; did you ask your chiropracter whether he could supply the supplements he recommends. This is not to say, some supplements are effective.  However supplements do not effectively treat asthma. In general, it’s better to get your nutrition from eating a balanced diet, rather than taking a bunch of supplements. (I do take vit C, E, and a multi–but for general health, not for asthma) Thanks a lot for any advice/experiences. ……. David

I suggest you increase your knowledge of asthma by 1. reading the FAQ for alt.support.asthma at http://www.radix.net/~mwg/asthma-gen.html  alt.support.asthma FAQ 2. Buy a good reference book on asthma. I recommend ‘The Asthma Sourcebook’, Francis Adams, MD, 2nd Ed Nov ‘98 3. Have your daughter’s allergies evaluated by an allergist, so she knows what to avoid. Ellis

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Dear David, My primary care physician practices both traditional Western medicine and alternative medicine, whichever will be more effective in any given situation.  I have used supplements and herbal remedies for other conditions I’ve had – and they have been effective – but when it comes to asthma, traditional Western medical methods are really the only way to control it. Consequently, I use Singulair and an albuterol inhaler.  The only thing my doctor has ever said about supplements or diet is that a daily dose of Evening Primrose Oil (about 1500 mg) would be helpful to the lung tissue. Other than that, you really do have to rely on the usual asthma meds. Take care, Catherine

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I’d make an appointment with an allergist and discuss food allergies (and other allergies that might be affecting your daughter)–regardless of one’s opinion of chiropractors either way, the main point to me is that a chiropractor isn’t an allergy or asthma specialist and has no real background in the medicine involbed wotj same.  His having mentioned up a possible area to explore is valid enough (as any non-specialist might do)–now I’d follow through with an allergist to methodically determine what your daughter truly is and isn’t allergic to. I believe food allergies are rare, but not unheard of for asthma–but even if they are the cause, I doubt _all_ the things your chiropractor implicated are the cause (and I do wonder how he could with one stroke decide all milk _and_ sugar products as a problem).  I agree its an awfully drastic change to make based on very little information.  A visit with an allergist would determine whether there are any specific things to avoid I’d also hesitate about suddenly going to all those supplements, especially when they’re prescribed by someone who doesn’t have a backgrounbd in nutrition.  If an allergist determines your daughter really should avoid these foods, then I’d talk to him about the supplements, or ask him who else you can talk to about them.  I definitely wouldn’t start on them without more solid information. And given your daughter’s activity level, it sounds like you wouldn’t want to just pull her off all the foods that are fueling her activity anyway–to do something so drastic, I’d want to meet with a nutritionist or some such to discuss how she can continue to fuel her activity adequately without any milk or sugar–if your daughter simply starts eating more poorly, there’s a good chance she could get into more health trouble that way, too. But first I’d schedule an appointment with an allergist, before even considering any of this.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ask this question on behalf of my 11 year old daughter – an active soccer player, rhythmic gymnast and figure skater. She has had several bouts with exercise-induced asthma attacks, mostly on the soccer field and ice rink. They are not necessarily severe and there has never been an episode outside of strenuous physical activity. A pirbuterol accetate inhaler provides pretty quick relief. Recently, however, while rehab-ing a nagging ankle injury (stress fracture, soft tissue impingement or ostrigonum – we’re not completely sure) we were referred to a doctor of chiropracty. He is reputable in the chiropractic world and treats other gymnasts and skaters we know. In routine questioning, the issue of asthma came up and he somehow linked her diet to the condition. He claimed that dairy products, wheat and sugar were to blame for elevated levels of mucus in her bronchial lining which harbored and cultured bacteria responsible for the episodes. He has recommend that we remove all dairy products (milk, cheese, yogurt, meat, etc.), wheat (bread, cereal, bagels, etc.) and sugar (gatorade included!) from her diet and put her on soy-derivatives (tofu, rice milk, etc.), gluten-free buckwheat or rice breads and almond butter. No more peanut butter sandwiches, Harvest Bars, glasses of milk (skim of course), gatorade and the list goes on. In addition, he has prescribed quite a few supplements like colostrum powder, digestive enzymes, flax seed oil, lactobacillus acidophilus and bifidobacterium. The diet change is pretty drastic for an 11-year old and before we force this new way of eating on her, I was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience with diet-triggered (or cured), exercise-induced asthma? If so, has dietary modification worked? Would you recommend this as a remedy and, if so, can you also recommend diet plans, recipes and STORES that carry these dietary specialties (we’ve found a local grocery store that has 1/2 an isle dedicated to this type of stuff but the selection is not very big). Also, can anyone tell me what the supplements are for?

The supplements are to make the chiropractor a profit.  The diet is unnecessary unless your daughter is allergic to something in it.  Whilst chiropractors may be excellent at joint manipulation, they are not good sources of treatment for asthma.  BTW, you should talk to your doctor about having your daughter premedicate before exercise. Chris Owens

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alternative medicine, and many of them think that they can help asthma (I have no opinion on this for I’m not informed enough). I am wondering though if your child happens to be the blood type O.  The food restrictions that your chiroprator is recommending for asthma sounds like it comes straight our of the book (four diets, four blood types, one is right for your type).  The supplements that he suggests also come straight out of this book for blood type O’s. I have been following this diet as well.  I have elliminated all dairy, all gluten, all refined sugars etc. and am on a couple of suppliments.  I did not go on this diet however for help with asthma nor have I received any help for asthma from my dietary changes.  I have received other help and generally feel physically better, but even while on the diet I got pneumonia which exacerbated my asthma and still put me in the hospital. I am curious the next time you see your Chiropractor if you would ask him if he is aware of this book.  It’s pretty popular right now even in the medical profession and they do talk about asthma with this diet in the book. Juli Gordon

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I am not a child but a full grown adult who has a sthma for 15 years. I  also have empheysema.  I was in terrrible straiats and almost died twice.  Styroids saved  my life them but took a great toll on my bones and so i had to stop them.   Having been given  5 years to live from the onset of my  condition  it is now  17 years and i am in a much better condaition.  I still have to take broncodialators,   and even an oral medcation when I get an attack. The dramatic part of my feeling better was when I  eliminated all milk products, sugar, limited red meat. I also discoverred that I had a lot of allergies, and so long as i stay on a diet  I am  fin.   Unfortounately a  new food may a triger an attack Yes,  I would say food is  a major  factor in controlling  asthma.  sincerly     Qicksyl

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Question:

When I was first diagnosed, I was sitting on the doctor’s table for my annual physical.  His nurse had stuck my finger, as she always does. He came in, looked at the chart, looked up at me and said, "your blood glucose level is 250.   You’re diabetic."  He went on from there, prescribed a pill and told me it was basically all up to me, said something about exercising a lot.  I don’t know what he said, exactly.  I was completely in shock. Ya know, this really pisses me off.  How dare a doc do this.  Wonder if this is a result of the increase in Type 2s.  Do they really think they don’t have to offer support or education.  Seems there are many on here that had similar experiences.

As far as doctors offering support, good luck. Don’t hold your breath. I’m a social worker with alot of experience working in a hospital…..generally when a patient needs ’support’ or a doctor has a patient with some emotional problem, he picks up that trusty phone and beeps me.  It scares the shit out of them and they (in general) don’t want to be bothered. As far as education goes, I saw the same thing happen with my dad.  I think his GP diagnosed him with T2 diabetes.  They gave him a meter and a bottle of Glipizide and sent him on his merry way.  No referrals for education classes or anything.  He died last year of asthma with possible diabetic complications only a few years after dx.  To be fair, with younger doctors, alot more is being done to educate THEM about bedside manners and dealing with the patient’s psycho/social problems. I know because I’ve taught a few classes for medical students in dealing with patient’s ‘other’ problems that could be influencing medical treatment.  So hopefully, I think the tide is turning with younger doctors and we’ll be seeing alot of more emphasis on education and treating the patient’s "whole" person……medical, social and psychological problems. Beanie Type 1 Diag 10/98  (Humulin H and NPH)

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I have to eat up to 30 mgs of carbs for my afternoon snack,(my dietitian told me to<G) or I will read 60 before dinner. Jacquie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bGs went very low when I made the initial change in diet, and then went up rather high again.   Particularly I get rather large peaks at the before dinner measurement.   I haven’t sussed this out yet. Try a mid-afternoon snack, about 15 gm of carbohydrate.  At diabetes education they told us not to go more than 3-5 hours without a snack. What often happens is you go low and the liver dumps it’s glucose reserve into the body, raising levels – which is what you see before dinner… With me, it happens about 90, with warning signs of a queasy stomach and often getting a clammy feeling.  I also get sleepy, but that also happens about 150 and so it is not as good a sign. —–Burton No time spent with a Cat in your lap is ever truly wasted! Remove the anti-spam cat to e-mail me…

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I have to eat up to 30 mgs of carbs for my afternoon snack,(my dietitian told me to<G) or I will read 60 before dinner.

Yup – people vary.  My afternoon pattern is a snack after about 4 hours, but then I burn through that quickly and need another an hour to an hour and a half later… You have to find your pattern and work with it… —–Burton No time spent with a Cat in your lap is ever truly wasted! Remove the anti-spam cat to e-mail me…

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bGs went very low when I made the initial change in diet, and then went up rather high again.   Particularly I get rather large peaks at the before dinner measurement.   I haven’t sussed this out yet.

Try a mid-afternoon snack, about 15 gm of carbohydrate.  At diabetes education they told us not to go more than 3-5 hours without a snack. What often happens is you go low and the liver dumps it’s glucose reserve into the body, raising levels – which is what you see before dinner… With me, it happens about 90, with warning signs of a queasy stomach and often getting a clammy feeling.  I also get sleepy, but that also happens about 150 and so it is not as good a sign. —–Burton No time spent with a Cat in your lap is ever truly wasted! Remove the anti-spam cat to e-mail me…

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In the last five weeks I have been setting out to change my diet, to learn as much as possible, and to get control.   To such an extent that the GP was irritated when I bought a meter and went to tell him I wanted a prescription for the little strips!   He likes to be in control and to decide when the patient should go on a meter.   Tough – I plan to take control of this situation myself.   So I have bought an exercise cycle and some cookbooks and am learning a whole new world of cooking.

Good for you! That is precisely the approach you need to take. I, too, had to confront my Dr and demand a prescription for a meter and strips — and I sat with him and told him "you have given me a life threatening diagnosis — I am going to take care of it — and you are going to help, or I will find another doctor!" Amazing change of attitude. I did my part, of course – diet, exercise, medication, testing every day, etc. — now I am medicine free and control with diet and exercise, something he didn’t think I could do ("most people don’t do it – especially men" was his intitial comment when I chewed him out). He says I attacked it more agressively than any patient he has had. You can do it. Educate yourself. This ng can help tremendously! Do what is required – really do it, not just lip service or do it partially. It can only help. You’ll feel better and you just might – probably will – get it under control! But insist your doctor help also, or get another. Good luck. Bill

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And with all of it, I think that’s what makes me the most angry; I want to know what totally screwed up my immune system.

Take heed, my answer is somewhat of a phylosophical nature. Let me at first tell you that in my work I come into contact with many people that are more or less severely ill for a prolonged period of time. A lot of them do have the same question: Why me? There’s no real answer, I think. Some people are born more lucky than others. We do however perform a show for everybody about healthy, happy people, where nothing can go wrong. Look at our educational system. It does not teach us how to deal with life events. Look at the perfect picture in the advertisements, and in the glossy magazines. The odd sob story that is depicted in it, is no more than that. It is a life far from our own. Until we are struck by lightning ourself. Our world is shattered, and we have to pick up the broken pieces, and try to make something out of it again. That’s far from easy, and again some are better at it than others. But it certainly takes time, much time, to adjust to the new situation. Now for something less phylosophical. Lately there is some evidence that our own achieved hygiene may play a role in immune related diseases. Nowadays one can find for instance much more asthma in children than there was in the past. It is thought that in our hygienic way of life we do come far less often into contact with, in the evolutionary sense, "old" micro organisms. Our immune system however expects these micro organisms to try to enter our body, and to react to that. The part that plays a role in the immune system that interacts with these "old" micro organisms is the cellular immune reaction. As this part is now less developed than it used to be in less hygienic envronments, the balance of the immune system is shifted, and allergic reactions develop far more easily. Allergic reactions are also cellular in type, but of a different expression. And in that way it is supposed that also autoimmune reactions may play a more significant role in our spectrum of diseases than it did in the past. So do have your granddaughter play in the mud. She will get ill doing so, but it will be the right disease ) [Ehrm, a less dangerous way of stirring up our immune system in the right way is sought after]. Happy New Year.

Have a happy, and most important, healthy 1999 as well. —

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   BTW, a report here in the USA reported that Americans are eating    significantly more vegetables than they did ten years ago (I’ll    try to find the cite).  Unfortunately, almost all of the increase    is deep-fried, especially potatos (french fries), or cooked in    fat (potato chips). Would not know Jude, I do know I am eating significantly more veggies and significantly LESS fried food Darling Classical Musical Flutist Daughter is vegetarian and working on vegan "Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business" Using a Java script enabled browser go to:  http://go.compuserve.com/diabetes Anyone can read, Members can post, If you join Compuserve mention 73455,43 What do you do when CPR fails?……BARIUM Net-Tamer V 1.08X – Registered

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Jennifer I was diagnosed about six weeks ago at the age of 61.   Prior to this I had had quite a few problems including a tendency to fly off the handle and scream at the cats, who then went and peed on my wife’s bed, which reinforced the scream cycle! I was actually quite worried about the constant dry mouth, dysfunctional genitals, and so on.   So I have to say that I was pleased to have a diagnosis.   I don’t think the medical people around here are much use, but it may be that it’s just the holiday season. My doubt in my GP is derived mostly from the fact that I was presenting classic symptoms of DM and he did not spot the problem although Julie (my wife) did.   Also he told me that I was allowed one piece of fruit a day, which is a lot of bollocks! In the last five weeks I have been setting out to change my diet, to learn as much as possible, and to get control.   To such an extent that the GP was irritated when I bought a meter and went to tell him I wanted a prescription for the little strips!   He likes to be in control and to decide when the patient should go on a meter.   Tough – I plan to take control of this situation myself.   So I have bought an exercise cycle and some cookbooks and am learning a whole new world of cooking. bGs went very low when I made the initial change in diet, and then went up rather high again.   Particularly I get rather large peaks at the before dinner measurement.   I haven’t sussed this out yet. I am not impressed by low carbohydrate diet theories as it seems to me that one inevitably has to eat a high fat diet.   But I have learned about the Glycaemic Index and am studying this at the moment.   This evening I had a peak, and rather than not eating made a meal of pulses and wholemeal pasta.      A few hours later the peak was away down, though I still feel hungry. In summary, finding out what was wrong has made me motivated to do something about it!   I find it rather surprising that people talk of healthy people by comparison with diabetics.   I’m afraid I still consider myself to be healthy!   My weight is even showing signs of beginning to come down, though I’ll believe that when I see it! Robert Wendy started a thread a few days ago called "out of control", which had questions in it pertaining to Type 1’s…does the pump help (bad) control or MDI, etc (I don’t remember all the specifics she brought up). Here’s a question I’d like to pose to Type 2’s–how does having this affect you emotionally?

Robert Tusler <http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~rtusler

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Wow! I feel pretty lucky. We are retired AF, and as soon as I was diagnosed I was sent to the internal med clinic, the Dr I saw there talked to me for an hour, and "We" planned out what "WE" were going to do about this disease. He also decided to get real aggressive with my BP. Made me an appointment for a diabetic class, and dietitian. I go in every three to five weeks. I really feel this kind of treatment from my Dr helped me get to where I am. My first Dr has left and I was a little nervous about how the new Dr would treat me….Surprise !!! He is great too.<G  I am really blessed. Jacquie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was first diagnosed, I was sitting on the doctor’s table for my annual physical.  His nurse had stuck my finger, as she always does. He came in, looked at the chart, looked up at me and said, "your blood glucose level is 250.   You’re diabetic."  He went on from there, prescribed a pill and told me it was basically all up to me, said something about exercising a lot.  I don’t know what he said, exactly.  I was completely in shock. Ya know, this really pisses me off.  How dare a doc do this.  Wonder if this is a result of the increase in Type 2s.  Do they really think they don’t have to offer support or education.  Seems there are many on here that had similar experiences. As far as doctors offering support, good luck. Don’t hold your breath. I’m a social worker with alot of experience working in a hospital…..generally when a patient needs ’support’ or a doctor has a patient with some emotional problem, he picks up that trusty phone and beeps me.  It scares the shit out of them and they (in general) don’t want to be bothered. As far as education goes, I saw the same thing happen with my dad.  I think his GP diagnosed him with T2 diabetes.  They gave him a meter and a bottle of Glipizide and sent him on his merry way.  No referrals for education classes or anything.  He died last year of asthma with possible diabetic complications only a few years after dx.  To be fair, with younger doctors, alot more is being done to educate THEM about bedside manners and dealing with the patient’s psycho/social problems. I know because I’ve taught a few classes for medical students in dealing with patient’s ‘other’ problems that could be influencing medical treatment.  So hopefully, I think the tide is turning with younger doctors and we’ll be seeing alot of more emphasis on education and treating the patient’s "whole" person……medical, social and psychological problems. Beanie Type 1 Diag 10/98  (Humulin H and NPH)

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Hi,  I’m a new poster. I have type two and was diagnosed in June. I weighed 280 pounds, my BP was out of control, I had no energy.  Being diagnosed was a wake up call for me. I have so far lost 65 pounds, my last BP was 115/65 with the help of metiformin my bg is between 85 and 95. I feel great, and like Alan finally feel in control of my life.  Oh yeah and my last A1c was 5.1. Jacquie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a question I’d like to pose to Type 2’s–how does having this affect you emotionally? In ways I never expected. Since beginning to get the disease under control, I feel optimistic about the future like I never have before. I enjoy my wife and kids more, and feel like I have some say in my fate. This may be a side effect of feeling so much better now that I am not actively poisoning myself at every meal. My eyesight has improved, my sex life is back, I can sleep through the night and get through a day at work without thinking I am going to collapse at any moment. Not to say I’m not aware that I could get hit by a truck tomorrow, but in an odd way diabetes has given me a sense of purpose, and a feeling that the work I’ve done to get my BG under control has been worth it. I’m far from ashamed or secretive about it; I find the entire experience endlessly fascinating. I am amazed by how little I knew about a disease my mother had for most of the time I knew her. I am hopeful that further advances will make it even easier to live with this disease, and I am grateful to have developed it at a time when science has learned so much and made so many choices and treatments available. I’m also very grateful for this group, for the information and support I’ve received here. It’s an honour to know you all in this way. That’s my emotional two cents. Alan "Now is all we have."               Delenn, "Babylon 5" To reply in E-Mail, remove SPAMSUCKS from my address.

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One wonders whether we would eat better if broccoli and squash and carrots and apples had the same size advertising budget as Burger King. Probably not. Whoppers and Big Macs taste better than that stuff, and somehow I don’t think "Ronald McCauliflower" would work well as an advertising gimic

They do?  Bullsh*t.  It’s just what you are used to. BTW, a report here in the USA reported that Americans are eating significantly more vegetables than they did ten years ago (I’ll try to find the cite).  Unfortunately, almost all of the increase is deep-fried, especially potatos (french fries), or cooked in fat (potato chips). Jude —         Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting       Oak Park, IL  708-848-0134  URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

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One wonders whether we would eat better if broccoli and squash and carrots and apples had the same size advertising budget as Burger King. Probably not. Whoppers and Big Macs taste better than that stuff, and somehow I don’t think "Ronald McCauliflower" would work well as an advertising gimic

Call me crazy, but even as a reformed McDonald’s addict, I think apples and squash taste better than Big Macs. They might not be as desirable and obsessable, but strictly for what they do to the taste buds, I have to go with the health food here. Maybe I AM eating better… Alan "Now is all we have."                Delenn, "Babylon 5" To reply in E-Mail, remove SPAMSUCKS from my address.

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The way I treat this problem is buy reading asking questions and finding others in the same situation as myself and talking to them about there experences. As far as doctors are concerened I think that when I was diaganosed I would not have remembered anything he told me right then and there any way. Off course this attidude could also stem from the fact that I treat doctors as a consultant to my health not the final word.Finally I think that if we had a doctor we didn’t like I would try to find another that works better with you. Mike Norris Jr. Just My .02$worth

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When I was first diagnosed, I was sitting on the doctor’s table for my annual physical.  His nurse had stuck my finger, as she always does. He came in, looked at the chart, looked up at me and said, "your blood glucose level is 250.   You’re diabetic."  He went on from there, prescribed a pill and told me it was basically all up to me, said something about exercising a lot.  I don’t know what he said, exactly.  I was completely in shock.

Ya know, this really pisses me off.  How dare a doc do this.  Wonder if this is a result of the increase in Type 2s.  Do they really think they don’t have to offer support or education.  Seems there are many on here that had similar experiences.   I was sure that it was my just punishment from God, <snip , for just being plain ole BAD. <snip No one seemed to either understand or care.  

<snip This guilt thing is really pissing me off.  It seems that when the docs can’t find a certain page in a certain book that describes exactly what you are experiencing, it has to be your fault.   <snip So I decided to just not be a diabetic any more.  I know that sounds stupid,

Nope, doesn’t sound stupid to me.  I did it.  But I just quit eating.  Not a healthy thing to do either.  Didn’t work either.  And I didn’t last very long. <snip Right now, I’m just angry and sad and upset, but mostly, I guess, furious.  I guess that’s coming across in a lot of my posts lately, but mostly I’m just furious and frustrated. And scared, also

Seems that diabetics live a lifetime of scared.   Ole Ms America and her wonderful outlook.  I feel that she is giving a good heads up to people to be aware.  But she is also ignoring the feelings that go with it.  And one of the biggest feelings is the fright.  Which feeds the anger and frustration.  And everyone here accepts that we have it. Otherwise, none of us could cope for longer than a day or week. But when I listen to you Type 1’s talk about balancing this against that, and grams of CHO (took me a while to even figure out what that WAS), and boluses, and Human vs. humalog vs. animal, and R and hypos, and skim milk and all that, it scares the shit out of me.

<snip You know, it might appear from that side of the fence that there is so much to worry about.  And, of course, there is.  But don’t you think you have just as much sh*t to deal with now?  I think what you are seeing is that YMMV issue.  Just as some Type 2s feel that low carb is great, and others feel it is OK, and others don’t feel.  It is the same type of issues that you are describing in this paragraph.  We, each of us, are dealing with what we can.  Some on here preach a bit louder than others, but it all comes down to the same thing. We are all scared.  We are all angry.  We are all frustrated.  And we, each of us, use our coping mechanisms as best we can.  Some of us come across as being sarcastic (me, I’m afraid) because that is my type of humor.  Others come across as preaching because that is what we need to hang on for today.  And others feel the need to nit-pick.  Because we CANNOT dwell on what might happen.  Because we are afraid.  (If you note how many "I hope" lines are added to a lot of posts.)   Chin up, Wendy.  We all understand where you are.  Most of us have been there and will return there. We will all still be here when you are not an argument waiting to happen. (This is meant in a good sense.  Accepting where you are and acknowledging your right to be there.)  And we will all still love ya. Hang in there, girl. Judy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s how I feel, at least right now.  Catch me in a week, and it may be totally different.  I’m committed to working it out somehow.  But at this particular moment, I’m not sure how it’s gonna look.

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In 1987 a man I had been involved with for a long time died from complications (he was about 10yrs older than me).  My father died in ‘68 at age 57 from the same thing.  In the mid ’80s I was finishing my degree changing careers to be a therapist. A close friend was a psychologist & we were going to be partners.  In ‘87 I came down with severe bronchitis, then pleurisy.  Never really recovered.  In ‘89 I was sitting on the table in a dr’s office who had treated me before but not for awhile (insurance changes) when he walked in holding my file and said "how long have you been a diabetic?"  I don’t remember what he said after that (figured well, that’s it) but I ended up in the hospital several days later hypo from the high dose of glyburide he put me on and for the next 2 yrs had severe panic attacks.  In ‘91 dx’d with severe fibromyalgia & osteoarthritis.  In ‘92 ended up with osteomyelitis after having a toenail removed (worst pain I ever had next to labor).  In ‘94 angioplasty in my left iliac artery (stent inserted).  In ‘95 & ‘96 surgery for early stage bladder cancer.  I’m on 10 different meds per day, many I take several times, including vicodin for severe chronic pain.  I can walk down steps but much difficulty coming up.  I fatigue very easily & nap every day.  The degree I worked so hard for after raising 3 kids on my own since divorce in ‘72 now goes unused;  I had to go on SSDI in ‘89.  I can’t exercise enough to keep the bg’s low, I’ve lost weight (75 lbs total) over the last years but still fighting a losing battle.  My muscles are deteriorating even though I stretch every day & walk slowly on my treadmill.  I can’t sit, stand, walk or even lay down in one position for more than 15 minutes without pain.  I can’t lift my 23 mo granddaughter.  The money from my SSDI settlement is gone. The person who’s been helping me financially and emotionally is fading out of my life.  My kids have their own struggles. I’m in my early 50’s. I got an $8/mo raise in SS for 1999; my HMO doubled my copay on rx’s from $12 to $24/per.  I worked hard all my life and am now stuck with a crummy health policy that hasn’t even given me a referral to a diabetes dr or rheumatologist in 2 yrs.  Since I had to stop working I’ve lost many friends; when you don’t feel good most of the time people are sympathetic at first but get tired of excuses after awhile.  I don’t have a purpose in my life; I can’t make plans for the future.  I’ve contemplated suicide many times but there are still things I enjoy and I want to see my grandchildren grow up.  I do the best I can but so much energy is spent thinking about what to eat (or Not), how to survive (or Not), how to reduce the pain (temporarily), which pill do I take now, there’s not much left for joy. I hate the holidays because so much of the festivities involve food. I want to eat turkey and stuffing and mashed potatoes and a roll AND dessert!!! like everyone else!  And I want to feel good enough after all the preparations to actually enjoy the day. I know I probably was destined to get diabetes since my father had it, but all the rest is a mystery.  I have my theories and even my dr wonders what I was exposed to, but nothing I’ll ever be able to prove.  And with all of it, I think that’s what makes me the most angry; I want to know what totally screwed up my immune system.  No offense to anyone, but as terrible as this disease is, I think I might have had a fighting chance if I hadn’t come down with all the rest.  And I also know I will stay depressed for a day or two, and then get angry, and then get up and do some exercises and talk on the phone and go for a drive and listen to music and survive for another day.  Oh yeah, BTW, Happy New Year. Ginny A child of the ’60s, a believer in peace and equality, striving to become a human being.

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One wonders whether we would eat better if broccoli and squash and carrots and apples had the same size advertising budget as Burger King.

Probably not. Whoppers and Big Macs taste better than that stuff, and somehow I don’t think "Ronald McCauliflower" would work well as an advertising gimic (shoot me. snide comments are my emotional defense mechanism )

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Wendy started a thread a few days ago called "out of control", which had questions in it pertaining to Type 1’s…does the pump help (bad) control or MDI, etc (I don’t remember all the specifics she brought up). Here’s a question I’d like to pose to Type 2’s–how does having this affect you emotionally? I know how you feel about Dr Bernstein and low-carbs. But I think there’s more to it than that. Obviously, you’re

<snip a moment. How do really *feel* about it? That’s obviously something I don’t understand from my perspective. Anyone care to enlighten me? This might help us "types" understand where each other is coming from.

Good question, Jennifer. I had been feeling poorly for quite some time before I was diagnosed, suffering from a lot of little ailments that some try to dismiss as "getting older" (i.e., "middle-aged" spread, achy joints, lack of focus and concentration, etc.). I’d also had a thyroid problem that was successfully treated, but that treatment didn’t touch the achy joints, which were getting to be a problem because they were limiting my ability to maintain an exercise program (which was affecting my weight and my concentration). So, when I was diagnosed with diabetes, I was relieved to know that there really *was* something wrong and that it was something I could do something about relatively easily and not something I would have to just learn to live with. (Obviously, I have to live with the diabetes, but if I do the right things, I’ll be in good control; living with other conditions, on the other hand, might involve hard choices between living in pain or living with side effects of medication that only partially controls the pain.) I’m healthier than I have been in a good long time. When I went hiking with friends this summer, they noticed that I had not just a lot more stamina but also a lot more confidence on the trail. All I could tell was that I didn’t have to stop and rest (or take pictures) nearly as often, but they could see some more subtle differences as well. Alice F

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Here’s a question I’d like to pose to Type 2’s–how does having this affect you emotionally? I know how you feel about Dr Bernstein and low-carbs. But I think there’s more to it than that.

Thanks for asking, Jennifer. Let me just add that I suspect you do NOT know how "we" feel about Dr. Bernstein and low-carbs.  You know about some people’s ideas, but there are entirely too many of us, and we are entirely too diverse, for you to know how "we" feel. When I was first diagnosed, I was sitting on the doctor’s table for my annual physical.  His nurse had stuck my finger, as she always does. He came in, looked at the chart, looked up at me and said, "your blood glucose level is 250.   You’re diabetic."  He went on from there, prescribed a pill and told me it was basically all up to me, said something about exercising a lot.  I don’t know what he said, exactly.  I was completely in shock. I remained in shock for, I think, a couple of years.  He HAD to be wrong; not ME!  And secretly, I was sure that it was my just punishment from God, for being fat, for eating whatever I wanted, for just being plain ole BAD. I read the books; none of them made any sense.  I suspect that I was hyperinsulinemic because prior to diagnosis, I would have occasional hypos if I went for a while without eating.  I had gained something like 80 pounds in a year — probably a result of hyperinsulinemia itself and also the resultant constant hunger.  But I just figured I was fat.  So when I went on the glyburide, I expected things to get better, only they got worse. I was hungry ALL the time, and though I tried desperately to stay on the diet the dietitician prescribed for me, I would experience constant hypos (at least one a day, sometimes more), which required me to eat.  I dieted rigorously and gained weight.  I was practically passing out all the time.  No one seemed to either understand or care.  My doctor kept lowering my dosage, but basically he offered me NO other options than the ones I had — pills, weight gain, hypos.  The doctor, the dieticians, looked at me like I was crazy.  It seemed that I had hit a wall. So I decided to just not be a diabetic any more.  I know that sounds stupid, but I just couldn’t deal with it, so some part of me decided that it just wasn’t there.  I stopped going to the doctor, ate whatever I wanted, continued to exercise.  I was chronically tired, getting up two and three times a night to pee, developing hideous yeast infections all over my body, but I didn’t put anything together.   Then one day I was in the supermarket, felt a sharp pain in my head and suddenly I couldn’t see out of my left eye.  Thought maybe I should go to an opthalmologist.  The pain and (then temporary) blindness was just an "ocular migraine," but she did note that the blood vessels in my left eye were completely gone, shot, stripped.  The optic nerve was pretty much dead too.  She sent me to my PCP for a round of tests; he discovered a cardiac arrhythmia.  The cardiologist put me on coumadin for that, which caused my eye to bleed, which destroyed my eyesight permanently.  Blah blah blah. Long, tragic story.  My PCP was upset, said that this was the result of uncontrolled sugars.   On the glyburide again.  Same old story.  I was in despair, gave up totally.  Decided that I would die young and that was that, because I sure as hell wasn’t going to take those effing drugs any more.  I seriously and literally chose to die.   Then I read "Dr. Atkins’ New Diet Revolution" and decided to give it a shot.  What the hell — I was killing myself anyway.  Wonder of wonders, I lost weight IMMEDIATELY, my bgs plummeted within a couple of weeks to normal levels, where they STAYED, even after a meal, and I felt better than I had in years.  I had lots of energy, my gas and intestinal distress problems disappeared, I wasn’t hungry any more.  It truly was a salvation. At least, life started to get a little more hopeful.  I thought maybe I could live after all, a life that was bearable.  My doctor, my glaucoma specialist, my cardiologist, all were thrilled with the progress I made. As my doctor said (laughing), "You’re in great shape, given the shape you’re in." That lasted about a year, but I think the thing that’s hardest about diabetes is that you bring into the experience the person you were before you got diabetes, no matter what age.  If you’re a kid, well, kids love sweet stuff, so if you’re deprived of that, it’s a bummer.  If you’re an adult with a full-blown never-quite-dealt-with eating disorder, you bring that with you too, and that’s what I brought.  Lots of feelings of deprivation and sadness and loss over not being able to eat spaghetti (I lived on it for one year in my twenties) or brownies or bagels and cream cheese any more.  Maybe those "lowfat" people are right, I thought.  Maybe I SHOULD be eating another way.  Let me try.  of course, delusion meets emotional need, meets "being reasonable," and the whole thing is a tangle. Right now, that’s where I am, in a total tangle.  If I maintain a very low carbohydrate diet — under 50 grams a day — I can maintain good bgs.  If I don’t, I can’t — that simple.  Yeah, I could take medications, but I’m already on enough medications to choke a horse, and they all interact with each other in subtle ways.  I’m already going twice a month for PT tests for my blood thinner; how will glucophage or whatever interact with THAT? I already feel like a ticking bomb.  I have arthritis; am in awful pain frequently, which cuts into my exercise, which effects my cardiovascular health and my bgs.  But I can’t take aspirin or even too much tylenol, because it effects my blood thinner.  The blood thinner makes my eye bleed, pretty much guaranteeing that I’ll never get the sight back in that eye, but if I don’t take it, there’s a stroke to contend with.  ALL OF WHICH depend on my keeping good bgs.   But I WANT to eat the other stuff; I WANT to be "normal."   Right now, I’m just angry and sad and upset, but mostly, I guess, furious.  I guess that’s coming across in a lot of my posts lately, but mostly I’m just furious and frustrated. And scared, also.  Right now, as I struggle (pretty much unsuccessfully) to keep my carb level down, my bgs continue to climb.  I have a doctor’s appointment next week.  I’m afraid he’ll want me on meds or worse, on insulin.  I am scared to death of going on insulin, not because of the shots, but because of the need for discipline and control, which I have so little of.  If you told me look, you’ll need twelve shots a day, every two hours, and then you don’t have to think about it, I’d say cool, I can do that.  But when I listen to you Type 1’s talk about balancing this against that, and grams of CHO (took me a while to even figure out what that WAS), and boluses, and Human vs. humalog vs. animal, and R and hypos, and skim milk and all that, it scares the shit out of me.  I’m a mother, and one of my children has fairly serious medical problems that need to be dealt with; the other has minor problems.  I work full time.  I can barely keep my head above water to keep from drowning as it is.  I feel like if I don’t get a grip on things now, if I have to go the insulin route, I’ll drown for sure.  Everything is panic and despair and confusion. That’s how I feel, at least right now.  Catch me in a week, and it may be totally different.  I’m committed to working it out somehow.  But at this particular moment, I’m not sure how it’s gonna look.

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Well, Jennifer, of course I felt "different," ashamed, and so on growing up, it just wasn’t connected to diabetes. There are other issues that produce those feelings in a lot of kids. About T2 (dx 6 years ago), first scared, angry. Then invisible and discounted (not <real [insulin-injecting] diabetes], failed because the first attempt at controlling with diet and exercise didn’t work. Relieved when a drug did work. Scared again when I had an emergency angioplasty (wondering now whether being on a sulfonylurea brought it on with hyperinsulinemia), calling old friends I wanted to talk to before I died from the hospital, drugged out of my gourd because the nitro they gave me just about took my head off and nothing else they gave me touched the pain, just made me not care about it. The usual, mixed pleasure, annoyance, relief when coworkers and friends actually think about what’s good or not for me to eat when there’s an office "do." I’ve lived most of my life as an outsider, as "not normal," for any number of reasons. In some ways, this is just one more. I am shocked at what "normal" Americans eat, as shown on TV. One wonders whether we would eat better if broccoli and squash and carrots and apples had the same size advertising budget as Burger King. My sense of shock shows me how outside the mainstream I am. It’s a preoccupation, constant. I carry energy bars in the car, in my overnight bag (I’m away a couple of nights a week), in some of my jacket pockets. I may not go severely hypo, but I’ve been hypo enough to not be able to form words or finish sentences or focus on the task at hand (fortunately all of those events occurred at home or in my workplace, not in my car). The feeling of terror that sometimes accompanies the hypo, that I’m going to die if I don’t eat something RIGHT NOW, makes me want to ensure that I never have another. At the same time, I feel guilty about overtreating minor lows, never exercising enough, eating chocolate (my drug of choice). It’s always in the back of my mind: what time is it, how long since I last ate, what did I eat, will it last? should I snack, should I test, oops, forgot to test, eat anyway, test after, walk at lunch, can’t walk, have to finish this job, crap, there goes my exercise for today, what time is it, when did I eat last, should I have a whole meal, even though I don’t feel hungry? last time I ate light at dinner, woke up high and with a hypo hangover headache, maybe just a few crackers, what are these people thinking about me, they always seem to see me eating something, they don’t believe I’m diabetic I bet, what time is it, how come I feel so spacey, maybe I should test now. Am I gonna have enough strips left for the rest of the month if I test 6 times today? Weekends at home are not so worrisome: if I’m cranky, my spouse tells me to eat something. There’s plenty of yardwork for exercise. My time and attention are my own. My grandmother had diabetes and died of its complications. I’m an editor and fear retinopathy, glaucoma, cataracts. I’m figuring that I will probably die before I get a chance to retire, so I take all the time off to which I am entitled and enjoy my life as much as I can NOW. Sorry so long — you asked. BTW, you DO NOT know how I feel about Bernstein and low-carbing (unless you were addressing this thread solely to those engaged in the low-carb flamewars). Don’t assume that every type 2 feels the same. WE DON’T, any more than all T1s feel the same about MDI or beef insulin, or Humalog. — Nanuq of the North Remove grzl to send email: I’m only a grizzly before (decaf) coffee! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wendy started a thread a few days ago called "out of control", which had questions in it pertaining to Type 1’s…does the pump help (bad) control or MDI, etc (I don’t remember all the specifics she brought up). Here’s a question I’d like to pose to Type 2’s–how does having this affect you emotionally? I know how you feel about Dr Bernstein and low-carbs. But I think there’s more to it than that. Obviously, you’re not going to have the same feelings I had growing up as a teenage Type 1 with feeling different, ashamed, trying to cover it up, etc. You generally get Type 2 "older" and from what I gather, most 2’s on here are 30 or 40+ in age. I, of course, was living with my parents when I was diagnosed at 12. That adds another perspective to my Type 1 as I watched my parents worry, cry, and wonder if there was any hope for their daughter to live a normal(?) life. But I’m curious to see the "emotional" side of Type 2. Us Type 1’s will talk about it over and over. Like I said, forget Bernstein and eating low-carb 24 hrs a day for a moment. How do really *feel* about it? That’s obviously something I don’t understand from my perspective. Anyone care to enlighten me? This might help us "types" understand where each other is coming from.

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Wendy started a thread a few days ago called "out of control", which had questions in it pertaining to Type 1’s…does the pump help (bad) control or MDI, etc (I don’t remember all the specifics she brought up). Here’s a question I’d like to pose to Type 2’s–how does having this affect you emotionally? I know how you feel about Dr Bernstein and low-carbs. But I think there’s more to it than that. Obviously, you’re not going to have the same feelings I had growing up as a teenage Type 1 with feeling different, ashamed, trying to cover it up, etc. You generally get Type 2 "older" and from what I gather, most 2’s on here are 30 or 40+ in age. I, of course, was living with my parents when I was diagnosed at 12. That adds another perspective to my Type 1 as I watched my parents worry, cry, and wonder if there was any hope for their daughter to live a normal(?) life. But I’m curious to see the "emotional" side of Type 2. Us Type 1’s will talk about it over and over. Like I said, forget Bernstein and eating low-carb 24 hrs a day for a moment. How do really *feel* about it? That’s obviously something I don’t understand from my perspective. Anyone care to enlighten me? This might help us "types" understand where each other is coming from. Jennifer Type 1, 20 yrs, dx’d at 12

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Here’s a question I’d like to pose to Type 2’s–how does having this affect you emotionally?

Hmmmm… you know, I’d rather eat an candy basket filled with artificial chocolate (yeeeee-uck) then describe my own emotions, but whynot, wudafug, here goes… I suspect the primary emotion was anger. Anger that this happened to me. Anger at me for what stupid stuff I might have done to bring this on or at least rush it along. Anger that I have to diet an exercise not so I feel better or so I can see how women might check me out while I’m walking past them, but because my health and lifespan depend on it (I know, it always did, but not more so). And then there’s fear. Fear that no matter what I do, my life may be shorter than I’d hoped it would be. Fear that life’s little bodily annoyances may be the beggining of something more insicidous. Are my eyes blurry this morning because I was staring at my computer screen for hours, or is it beggining retinopathy? Is that numbnes in my leg because of how I was sitting, or is it something worse. So, no, no one’s making fun of us, or trying to use the Hershey Bar M.O. to kill us. But we have our own issues, our own "things in the picnic basket". Enough from me. I’m going back to lurking/occasional snide responses mode….

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Here’s a question I’d like to pose to Type 2’s–how does having this affect you emotionally?

In ways I never expected. Since beginning to get the disease under control, I feel optimistic about the future like I never have before. I enjoy my wife and kids more, and feel like I have some say in my fate. This may be a side effect of feeling so much better now that I am not actively poisoning myself at every meal. My eyesight has improved, my sex life is back, I can sleep through the night and get through a day at work without thinking I am going to collapse at any moment. Not to say I’m not aware that I could get hit by a truck tomorrow, but in an odd way diabetes has given me a sense of purpose, and a feeling that the work I’ve done to get my BG under control has been worth it. I’m far from ashamed or secretive about it; I find the entire experience endlessly fascinating. I am amazed by how little I knew about a disease my mother had for most of the time I knew her. I am hopeful that further advances will make it even easier to live with this disease, and I am grateful to have developed it at a time when science has learned so much and made so many choices and treatments available. I’m also very grateful for this group, for the information and support I’ve received here. It’s an honour to know you all in this way. That’s my emotional two cents. Alan "Now is all we have."                Delenn, "Babylon 5" To reply in E-Mail, remove SPAMSUCKS from my address.

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Question:

I asked my wife to exert whatever pressure possible to ensure the doctor actually performs some tests rather than merely pulling a diagnosis out of thin air.

My daughter (now 6) has had asthma since age 2 1/2. She was under a asthma treatment plan with her Pediatrician until last December when I couldn’t get her wheezing under control. I finally insisted on a referral to a Pediatric Pulmonologist. This Dr. ordered a whole slew of tests: chest and sinus x-rays, Pulmonary Function Test, Sweat Test to rule out Cystic Fibrosis, and some blood tests. The Pulmonary Function test is the one that will really determine asthma. I’m glad the Dr ran all the tests though. At least I know she tried to find out if the problem was being caused by something other than asthma. Donna

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1. What testing may be done to determine if one has asthma

The ‘official’ test used to diagnose asthma is called Pulminory Functions Testing.  In this he will sit in a device that looks like a telephone booth and blow into a tube while a computer measures the results.  He will then get treated with albuterol and the test repeated.  The results of the test will be compared and a certian percentage improvement (as well as a specific shape on the graph) will indicate asthma. Frequently a doctor will prescribe other testing to rule out conditions that can mimic asthma.  Rather than ‘prove’ it is asthma they rule out the other possibilities. Of course another way to ‘confirm’ asthma is to walk into the doctor’s office with an active asthma attack. 2. If one has asthma, what drugs are available and what long term side-effects do they carry

There is a wide variety of medications used to treat asthma.  Each with its good points and its bad points. For a child, doctors tend to prefer albuterol on an ‘as needed’ basis to treat asthma symptoms. And one of the cromylin medications (such as Intal) for long term control.  Intal has its good points and its bad points – its good point is that it is virtually without side effects – its bad point is that it is one of the weaker medications. Another medication for children is the new medication Singulair.  The good point is that it (so far) seems free of major side effects but the bad point is that it frequently does not do anything at all for many asthmatics (it is also a new medication without an established track record). 3. If testing does exist, what type of specialist should one see to ensure testing

The two most common specalists who treat asthma are pulminogolists and allergists.  In addition there are doctors who specalise in the treatment of asthma. Currently there is a concern that doctors are oversensitive to asthma and as a consequence are overdiagnosing.  A second opinion from an asthma doc sounds like a good idea. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for any and all advice. JN

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife took our 6 yr. old son to the Doc to check his breathing.  I noticed him having difficulty in his breathing at night, morning, and after exercise.  Not having a great deal of trust in the medical establishment these days, I asked my wife to exert whatever pressure possible to ensure the doctor actually performs some tests rather than merely pulling a diagnosis out of thin air. After simply looking at out son’s eyes, ears, and throat, the doctor exclaimed the following: 1. Everything appears OK 2. My son may have a slight case of Asthma 3. No tests exist for this sort of thing How everything is OK if he may have a slight case of Asthma is something a can’t figure out.  Nevertheless, the doctor PRESCRIBED VENTOLIN (Albuterol Oral Inhaler for Proventil/Ventolin) for my son’s possible slight case of Asthma even though everything appears OK.  This is what gets me.  It appears that this doctor has Prescribed in order to Diagnose.  In other words, if the medicine works, my son must actually have asthma.  I thought prescription was supposed to come after diagnosis.

A trial period of medication can be useful in aiding in an asthma diagnosis. If the asthma drug helps, it tends to support the asthma diagnosis. While I don’t intend to use this newsgroup as a sole source of info (I have lots of research to do!), I’d appreciate information from anyone re: the following: 1. What testing may be done to determine if one has asthma 2. If one has asthma, what drugs are available and what long term side-effects do they carry 3. If testing does exist, what type of specialist should one see to ensure testing JN

Your son’s symptoms are consistent with a case of Mild asthma. Symptoms are often worse at night and after exercise. This can make it difficult to diagnose, since symptoms decrease in daytime when doctor’s office is open. Wheezing or coughing are usually present. Perhaps the doctor heard some wheezing in his stethoscope? A spirometer lung function test can be used in the diagnosis. Lung function is measured before and after administering a bronchodilator like Ventolin. An improvement of 15% in lung function tends to support the asthma diagnosis. For exercise-induced asthma, a treadmill test can be administered, but its an expensive test. Drugs–Ventolin is a short-acting bronchodilator to be used for ‘rescue’ or exercise. It shouldn’t be prescribed for maintenance, under new guidelines. For maintenance, steroid inhalers like Vanceril, Flovent and Pulmicort are often prescribed. In children, a trial of Intal or Tilade is usually tried first, as they have virtually no long term side effects. (Steroid inhalers, in medium and high dose, can somtimes cause slowness in growth.) Specialist–probably a pediatric allergist would be the referral to ask for. Many managed care plans won’t pay for referrals in cases of Mild asthma. However if he has allergies, such a referral would be appropriate. (Most childhood asthma is allergic, most adult onset asthma is nonallergic) A good introductory book on the subject is " Family Guide to Asthma and Allergies", American Lung Assoc, and Norman Edelman, MD, c97, LifeTime Media, paperback $13.95 Some links: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~kupstas/FAQ.html Allergy & Asthma  FAQ kupstas http://www.cs.unc.edu/~kupstas/FAQ_web.html  Allergy and Asthma FAQ – Other Web Sites http://www.radix.net/~mwg/asthma-gen.html  alt.support.asthma FAQ http://www.aaaai.org/patpub/resource/publicat/tips/tip20.html   CHILDHOOD ASTHMA (AAAAI) http://www.aaaai.org/profinfo/publicat/paramete/treatmen/children.html  Asthma in children Practice Parameters for the Diagnosis and treatment  of Asthma (AAAAI) Ellis

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Any advice is greatly appreciated! My wife took our 6 yr. old son to the Doc to check his breathing.  I noticed him having difficulty in his breathing at night, morning, and after exercise.  Not having a great deal of trust in the medical establishment these days, I asked my wife to exert whatever pressure possible to ensure the doctor actually performs some tests rather than merely pulling a diagnosis out of thin air. After simply looking at out son’s eyes, ears, and throat, the doctor exclaimed the following: 1. Everything appears OK 2. My son may have a slight case of Asthma 3. No tests exist for this sort of thing How everything is OK if he may have a slight case of Asthma is something a can’t figure out.  Nevertheless, the doctor PRESCRIBED VENTOLIN (Albuterol Oral Inhaler for Proventil/Ventolin) for my son’s possible slight case of Asthma even though everything appears OK.  This is what gets me.  It appears that this doctor has Prescribed in order to Diagnose.  In other words, if the medicine works, my son must actually have asthma.  I thought prescription was supposed to come after diagnosis. While I don’t intend to use this newsgroup as a sole source of info (I have lots of research to do!), I’d appreciate information from anyone re: the following: 1. What testing may be done to determine if one has asthma 2. If one has asthma, what drugs are available and what long term side-effects do they carry 3. If testing does exist, what type of specialist should one see to ensure testing Thanks for any and all advice. JN

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