Question:
Ho Ho Ho–He’s Baaaack! It’s Petey time– Cough through your nose—oh yeah! that works! The above space is from the time it took me to pick up my spastically coughing body off the floor! cib
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I went to the doctor today for a hypotensive crisis (jolly good fun), and strated coughing like crazy. This cough has been coming and going for 6 month now. I have twice been diagnosed with bronchitis (in Italy, while I lived there) and have been given antibiotics. No effect. Chest x-rays: everything normal. Today’s chest x-rays clear again. Coughing my lungs out, though. Hi Elgin The Buteyko view is that even if you have a genetic predisposition to asthma, you won’t get asthma unless you habitually hyperventilate. Often, when asthma comes on late in life, it follows on some prolonged stressful event. As you know stress makes you hyperventilate, which is quite a normal reaction. Prolonged stress makes you habituate to this condition. Professor Buteyko’s advice on coughing is to stifle it as much as you can. You’ll find if you just live with the tickle for a while it will just go away. If you must cough, do it through your nose as gently as possible. Coughing is murder on the airways. Best wishes Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm
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Yes, because he is one of the millions of doctors who does’nt understand chronic hyperverventilation syndrome.
They understand the concept well enough to know that it is a spurious explanation of asthma–and that the Brisbane study that you continue to cite has been discredited often. You already know that, but acknowledging it interferes with your mindless evangelism for this quackery. Since there is already a group that devotes itself to buteyko, your continued posting here can only be construed as an attempt to sell something or be irritating. You have failed at the former and have succeeded at the latter.
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http://www.rph.wa.gov.au/patient/index.html I don’t know how long this will last but it’s nice talking to someone who isn’t obnoxious on this news group.
miss me petey you obnoxious sweetie? peters victims http://x63.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=625283217 http://x71.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=532268341 I’m finally getting used to my adult onset asthma (4 months now) and have just recently finally figured out pretty much what triggers my attacks. My inhaled steriods were finally starting to work and my dependancy on my Albuteral was lessoning to the point where sometimes I didn’t need it all day long. I started to feel a little complacent, and that was my first mistake. Now I’ve been reading this NG long enough to see the verbal jousting between the pro and anti Buteyko posts. I guess in my utter denial of the prospect that I may have to take meds for the rest of my life I started to research the different breathing techniques for Buteyko and I cut back on my Vanceril in an effort to wean myself off these meds I have to take. That was my second mistake. For two days I was symptom free and down to 2 puffs of Vanceril in the morning and I felt really good thinking I was going to be different from everbody else. I was going to beat this thing. I was on my way to visit my parents (another state 1 1/2 hours drive) I felt great and I forgot to bring my Albuterol inhaler (my third and almost fatal mistake) I was about half way there when I felt my throat and my chest tightening up a little. But I didn’t worry, I would just breathe through my nose a bit in shallow breaths and everything would be all right, and I kept driving. Within 15 minutes or so, I started to get severe shortness of breath, a few minutes later I started wheezing and my throat started constricting. I was having a full blown asthma attack and I was 60 miles from the nearest sizable town driving down a country road in the middle of North Carolina and I didn’t have my rescue inhaler. I knew in an instant why this was happening to me. The effects of the inhaled steroid was wearing off ! I frantically found a drugstore in a small town I was passing through and went in to see if there was anything I could buy to alleviate my problem. The only thing that drugstore sold for asthma relief was Primatene Mist, and guess what? Beside costing $16 it doesn’t work. Thank God there was a Pharmacist working there that day who the good sense to immediately called 911. Result: I was flown by Nightingale (helicopter) air ambulance ($785.00) to the nearest Emergency Room ($335.00) and had to stay overnight hooked up to a mask (haven’t got that bill yet, but I know it will be equivalent to the Gross National Product of a small developing country) My Doctor has me on Double Strength Vanceril now after the one hour verbal tongue thrashing he gave for being so stupid. He told me were it not for the actions of that Pharmacist, I most likely wouldn’t be here now. I appologize for the long post, but I have noticed many new sufferers like myself since I have joined and if I can prevent one person from making the same mistake I did, I think it warrants it. — Jim– why Peter Kolb posts – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I still think a.s.a. is a great place to reach out to people looking for help. When I started posting to this ng a few years ago I really got caught up in it. I actually got physically sick from indulging this addiction. I then dropped a.s.a. completely for a long time. Now, with the benefit of some experience in working in this hostile environment and having been able to distance myself from it, I’ve come up with a few golden rules that work for me: 1. Never lose sight of the goal. The purpose is not to win arguments with irrational up-themselves people, but to spread the message to others following the discussion. On another issue, those of you who write to a.s.a may like to advertise our WEB site in your signature.
Information on Peter Kolb’s FAQ provided by grateful asthmatics http://x63.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=656808812
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Hi Peter, I have never hyperventilated. Never. Have done lots of other strange things, but my breathing has been one of the more normal things about my life. So I don’t think that theory applies to me. Elgin, you would’nt know if you were hyperventilating or not.
This guy (petey) seems to have a salesman attitude. You can’t embarass him, intimidate him or show him how he is wrong. He may be a "True Believer" with only his "Faith" to prop him out of the morass. Don’t waste keystrokes trying to have a discussion with him, he knows your body better than you do.
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I suggested to Elgin that he tried a gentle cough through his nose. How does this make me a salesman? I didn’t ask Elgin to send me any money for this advice.
How much are you charging for the videos on your web site these days? Will you send him the set for free? — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.
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Hi Peter, I have never hyperventilated. Never. Have done lots of other strange things, but my breathing has been one of the more normal things about my life. So I don’t think that theory applies to me.
Elgin, you would’nt know if you were hyperventilating or not. Typically, hyperventilators are not aware that they are doing it.(Ref 1). In fact the unanimous opinion in the literature is that it is very hard to detect because there is no obvious sign of overbreathing. (eg Ref 2,3) It is quite possible to sustain hyperventilation with just the occasional sigh. Saltzman (Ref 2) writes: "The fact that an arterial blood PCO2 below 30mm of mercury can be maintained with a relatively normal ventilatory pattern should be appreciated if the clinical syndrome is to be recognized." Here, for example, is an interesting passage from "Hyperventilation Syndrome: A Diagnosis Begging for Recognition" (Ref 3). It was written by 3 medical doctors. Begin Quote: —- Since the original descriptions in soldiers, it is now recognized that hyperventilation occurs in many per- sons under stresses of daily living. It is manifest not only in those overtly stressed, anxious and depressed but also in those who appear outwardly calm as they "bottle up" their feelings, often because of undeveloped or lack of acceptable emotional outlets. Physicians and lay persons alike readily recognize acute hyperventila- tory attacks occurring under acute stress. However, chronic or recurrent hyperventilation problems often are unrecognized probably for a variety of reasons, including the frequent lack of obvious overbreathing, a tendency to focus on one or two complaints that alone are not particularly suggestive of hyperventilation, minimal discussion of the topic in medical school and cursory coverage in medical textbooks. <—— End Quote. But you really don’t need to go to the medical literature for all this to make sense. You see, Elgin, normal arterial CO2 is between 35 and 45 mm mercury. Your doctor would not be surprized to find your CO2 level anywhere in the normal range, and you would not be visibly overbreathing. Possibly if you were down at 20 you might be visibly overbreathing, in other words, having an acute attack. And these very low levels, you would get pretty sick. There is not a doctor that would dispute that you would eventually die if your CO2 level went low enough. But what happens say between 30 and 35? At this level you are also not obviously overbreathing. Yet by definition you are hypervenritlating because below 35 is defined to be hyperventilation. This represents a very gray area and this is what all the fuss is about. If you are dead below a certain minimum level and you are perfelcty healthy at say 40, then there must be a gray area in between where you just get sick. It is this gray area which most doctors have been ignoring all this time and it is this gray area which causes the biochemical disruptions that lead to inflammatory hyperresponsiveness in asthma (Ref 4) and the many other symptoms associated with chronic hyperventilation syndrome. Also, I tried coughing through my nose, but that didn’t work and gave me really, really strange looks from the people around me. My coughs are decidedly too strong for that. I thought I would nburst a vein…
Elgin, we do whatever it takes to fix the problem. Some of the people on this group that can’t think beyond the square they’re in can’t visualize the possibility that anything other than a dangerous drug can help them, in spite of the fact that the pill that cures asthma has not yet been invented! If an already damaged and vulnerable lung gets injured by the violent forces unleashed in a cough, then it makes sense to try to suppress it as much as you can. We do the same for open mouth breathing, which we recognize to be a major cause of overbreathing. What do you do at night when you can’t control your mouth? Well, there is only one solution and that is to shut it with tape or whatever it takes to keep it closed. People here think we’re weird, but at least we get a good nights sleep while they are snoring their heads off. And talking of snoring, how much air do you think you need to suck in to sustain a good snore? What do you do with all that air when your body is not engaged in any activity? Fundamentally, all that hyperventilation just stuffs up your biochemical factory. Do you really think it is co-incidence that so many asthma attacks take place between two and four in the morning? Thanks anyways,
That’s OK Elgin. I don’t know how long this will last but it’s nice talking to someone who isn’t obnoxious on this news group. Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer References: 1. Brasher RE, "Hyperventilation Syndrome", Lung, VOL 161, 1983, 257-273 2. Saltzman HA, Heyman A, Sieker HO, "Correlation of clinical and physiological manifestations of sustained hyperventilation", The New England Journal of Medicine, VOL 268:26, 27 June 1963, 1431-1436 3. Magarian GJ, Middaugh DA, Linz DH, "Hyperventilation Syndrome: a diagnosis begging for recognition", West J Med, VOL 138, 1983, 733-736 4. Kazarinov VA, "Buteyko Method: The experience of implementation in medical practice", The biochemical basis of KP Buteyko’s theory of the diseases of deep respiration, EDITOR: Buteyko KP; PUBLISHER: Patriot Press Moscow; 1990; PAGES: 198-218. Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm
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Hey Colin, I pretty much ignore the Buteyko saleman, but I am just wondering how the heck someone can cough through their nose. Please just humor me…It’s my warped sense of humor:} Pam
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If you must cough, do it through your nose as gently as possible. I"m not sure how one would "cough through your nose". I know there is a great deal of imformation about asthma and I have a great deal to learn, but this is a new one on me. Wouldn’t that be considered a sneeze or maybe blowing your nose? Could someone clarify that for me please? My advice is to ignore the Buteyko salesmen. They have a bunch of harebrained ideas that they use to try to sell you their ‘training.’
I suggested to Elgin that he tried a gentle cough through his nose. How does this make me a salesman? I didn’t ask Elgin to send me any money for this advice. And Pamela, you’ve already indicated that you really don’t want any advice from me. But if there are other people who have trouble with the idea of coughing through the nose, just try it. Best is a genlte throat clearing with mouth closed. If you cough through your nose at least you’re doing it reasonably gently. Listen to your doctor if your doctor does not recommend buteyko to you then it is for a good reason.
Yes, because he is one of the millions of doctors who does’nt understand chronic hyperverventilation syndrome. I suggest you see a doctor who does understand chronic hyperventilation syndrome. Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm
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(PamlaKS) writes: I pretty much ignore the Buteyko saleman, but I am just wondering how the heck someone can cough through their nose. Please just humor me…It’s my warped sense of humor:}
Perhaps those Butteyko salesmen have their oral orifices previously engaged with each other’s, shall we say, appendages? Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
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advice from me. But if there are other people who have trouble with the idea of coughing through the nose, just try it. Best is a genlte throat clearing with mouth closed. If you cough through your nose at least you’re doing it reasonably gently.
I hate to fuel the fire, but here it goes anyway. It’s not as easy as some people think. A normal person’s cough may involve a little tickle somewhere in the upper part of the chest and/or throat. OK, maybe clearing their throat may help them, or some weird kind of muffled cough (coughing through the nose, as you put it). But what about those of us who have a tickle that is far down, below the point where a simple clearing of the throat will help? What about those of us who have a tickle that is so intense that only the kind of cough that makes your lungs rumble will help (you know, that cough that people with bronchitis generally have)? Will you tell them to just control it somehow? For me, if I try not to cough when I get like this, it eventually gets so intense that my body starts coughing and sneezing at the same time, whether I like it or not. It is an involuntary response. I have had asthma problems for most of my life. I have regularly avoided medication and have always tried to control things on my own. The end result: no major attacks, and very little medication. The *overall* end result: the asthma has gotten progressively worse over the years, and the inflammation is (as has always been) painful. I can’t do anything anymore (used to be in great shape, but those days are long gone because I have a hard time just going up a set of stairs, not to mention what happens when the weather gets bad and the smog alerts start coming out). I think it’s dangerous to encourage people to try mind over matter techniques, which is what this Buteyko (sp?) stuff that you like seems to do. Yes, because he is one of the millions of doctors who does’nt understand chronic hyperverventilation syndrome. I suggest you see a doctor who does understand chronic hyperventilation syndrome.
I’ve read about how Buteyko supporters believe that asthma is nothing but hyperventilation. I don’t see how that can be. I would be willing to believe that the acute attacks that land people in hospitals might be some form of hyperventilation, because they get nervous and try harder and harder to breathe. However, that does not explain the inflammation. I have never been in the hospital due to my asthma, but I’ve got pretty painful inflammation (aside: my docs say the inflammation from the asthma is the cause of the pain, but I pretty much NEVER hear any other asthma sufferers complain about pain, only inability to breathe. I get curious as to why, sometimes. End of aside.). The flovent seems to calm that down mostly, which is nice. I have always been able to control myself and not freak out if I suddenly experience breathing problems. …and yet, I *still* have the inflammation. I’m quite sure that my inflammation is there for some reason other than hyperventilation. Again, sorry to fuel the fire. I get the impression that people who have been on this group for a while are probably tired of the arguments, but I felt like I had to have my say. 
Vicky
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so far all the evidence points to Peter Kolb being either a fraudster or a fool
Is it not feasible that there may be some evidence that also points to Peter Kolb being a fraudster *and* a fool… why do you negate the possibility that he exhibits a combination of both those characteristics, after all, they are not mutally exclusionary. Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."
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so far all the evidence points to Peter Kolb being either a fraudster or a fool Is it not feasible that there may be some evidence that also points to Peter Kolb being a fraudster *and* a fool… why do you negate the possibility that he exhibits a combination of both those characteristics, after all, they are not mutally exclusionary. Sheldon
Sheldon is, of course, completely correct let me rephrase the sentence so far all the evidence points to Peter Kolb being a fraudster, a fool or most likely both much more accurate — eric "live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
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If you must cough, do it through your nose as gently as possible.
I"m not sure how one would "cough through your nose". I know there is a great deal of imformation about asthma and I have a great deal to learn, but this is a new one on me. Wouldn’t that be considered a sneeze or maybe blowing your nose? Could someone clarify that for me please? Thanks, Pam
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Hi Elgin The Buteyko view is that even if you have a genetic predisposition to asthma, you won’t get asthma unless you habitually hyperventilate.
Notice that this is nothing more than ‘point of view.’ The sad fact is that in over 40 years the Buteyko supporters have not been able to demonstrate that this theory has anything to do with reality. One way of spotting the frauds is when they can not provide any basic research that specifically tests and demonstrates the theory. "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off." General Colin Powell
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If you must cough, do it through your nose as gently as possible. I"m not sure how one would "cough through your nose". I know there is a great deal of imformation about asthma and I have a great deal to learn, but this is a new one on me. Wouldn’t that be considered a sneeze or maybe blowing your nose? Could someone clarify that for me please?
My advice is to ignore the Buteyko salesmen. They have a bunch of harebrained ideas that they use to try to sell you their ‘training.’ Listen to your doctor if your doctor does not recommend buteyko to you then it is for a good reason. "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off." General Colin Powell
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Hi Peter, I have never hyperventilated. Never. Have done lots of other strange things, but my breathing has been one of the more normal things about my life. So I don’t think that theory applies to me. Also, I tried coughing through my nose, but that didn’t work and gave me really, really strange looks from the people around me. My coughs are decidedly too strong for that. I thought I would nburst a vein… Thanks anyways, Elgin * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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I suggested to Elgin that he tried a gentle cough through his nose. How does this make me a salesman? I didn’t ask Elgin to send me any money for this advice.
But you will after you lure him to your website. "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off." General Colin Powell
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I went to the doctor today for a hypotensive crisis (jolly good fun), and strated coughing like crazy. This cough has been coming and going for 6 month now. I have twice been diagnosed with bronchitis (in Italy, while I lived there) and have been given antibiotics. No effect. Chest x-rays: everything normal. Today’s chest x-rays clear again. Coughing my lungs out, though. Hi Elgin The Buteyko view is that even if you have a genetic predisposition to asthma, you won’t get asthma unless you habitually hyperventilate.
translation for Elgin The Buteyko view is a load of unproven or impossible nonsense that has become a successful cottage industry by preying on newly diagnosed asthmatics they have found a way of masking some of the symptoms of asthma…they equate this with "curing" it…then when the symptoms reoccur after a while, which they usually will simply because the underlying inflammation is not being treated and is getting worse, they will blame the asthmatic for not doing it properly so far all the evidence points to Peter Kolb being either a fraudster or a fool — eric "live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
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Hello all, I went to the doctor today for a hypotensive crisis (jolly good fun), and strated coughing like crazy. This cough has been coming and going for 6 month now. I have twice been diagnosed with bronchitis (in Italy, while I lived there) and have been given antibiotics. No effect. Chest x-rays: everything normal. Today’s chest x-rays clear again. Coughing my lungs out, though.
Hi Elgin The Buteyko view is that even if you have a genetic predisposition to asthma, you won’t get asthma unless you habitually hyperventilate. Often, when asthma comes on late in life, it follows on some prolonged stressful event. As you know stress makes you hyperventilate, which is quite a normal reaction. Prolonged stress makes you habituate to this condition. Professor Buteyko’s advice on coughing is to stifle it as much as you can. You’ll find if you just live with the tickle for a while it will just go away. If you must cough, do it through your nose as gently as possible. Coughing is murder on the airways. Best wishes Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm
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Hello all, I went to the doctor today for a hypotensive crisis (jolly good fun), and strated coughing like crazy. This cough has been coming and going for 6 month now. I have twice been diagnosed with bronchitis (in Italy, while I lived there) and have been given antibiotics. No effect. Chest x-rays: everything normal. Today’s chest x-rays clear again. Coughing my lungs out, though. Then they made me breathe into some evil machine that wouldn’t accept my readings because I didn’t have enough breath. Finally it did, after 5 tries. My doc said I had asthma and prescribed me an inhalor and send me packing to a pulmonary specialist who will see me next week. Can that be? I am 27 years old. Can one suddenly develop asthma out of nowhere? Isn’t it a genetic thing? I don’t smoke, either. That is basically my question: no one in my family has this – is it possible I develop it at 27? Also, in regard to the inhalor: I did what it said to do and started gagging and throwing up. My cough got *stronger* after that. Is that a normal reaction? I don’t feel any relief. Did I do it wrong? That was not very pleasant… Thanks a bunch, Elgin * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all, I went to the doctor today for a hypotensive crisis (jolly good fun), and strated coughing like crazy. This cough has been coming and going for 6 month now. I have twice been diagnosed with bronchitis (in Italy, while I lived there) and have been given antibiotics. No effect. Chest x-rays: everything normal. Today’s chest x-rays clear again. Coughing my lungs out, though. Then they made me breathe into some evil machine that wouldn’t accept my readings because I didn’t have enough breath. Finally it did, after 5 tries. My doc said I had asthma and prescribed me an inhalor and send me packing to a pulmonary specialist who will see me next week. Can that be? I am 27 years old. Can one suddenly develop asthma out of nowhere? Isn’t it a genetic thing? I don’t smoke, either. That is basically my question: no one in my family has this – is it possible I develop it at 27?
I was diagnosed at age 35. This sort of thing happens all the time. Also, in regard to the inhalor: I did what it said to do and started gagging and throwing up. My cough got *stronger* after that. Is that a normal reaction? I don’t feel any relief. Did I do it wrong? That was not very pleasant…
Call your doctor and tell him ASAP! "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off." General Colin Powell
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I went to the doctor today for a hypotensive crisis (jolly good fun), and strated coughing like crazy. This cough has been coming and going for 6 month now. I have twice been diagnosed with bronchitis (in Italy, while I lived there) and have been given antibiotics. No effect. Chest x-rays: everything normal. Today’s chest x-rays clear again. Coughing my lungs out, though. Then they made me breathe into some evil machine that wouldn’t accept my readings because I didn’t have enough breath. Finally it did, after 5 tries. My doc said I had asthma and prescribed me an inhalor and send me packing to a pulmonary specialist who will see me next week. Can that be? I am 27 years old. Can one suddenly develop asthma out of nowhere? Isn’t it a genetic thing? I don’t smoke, either. That is basically my question: no one in my family has this – is it possible I develop it at 27? Also, in regard to the inhalor: I did what it said to do and started gagging and throwing up. My cough got *stronger* after that. Is that a normal reaction? I don’t feel any relief. Did I do it wrong? That was not very pleasant… Thanks a bunch, Elgin
sounds like you are in the right place asthma has a genetic basis…but that doesn’t mean one entire family will all have asthma and another won’t have any…genetics doesn’t work as simply as that…especially since diagnosis of asthma has improved…my grandfather, for instance, died of bronchitis many years ago…it’s only recently with a few more asthmatics in the family that we’ve realised he was probably asthmatic most of his life there are a wide variety of asthma symptoms…we all have different ones…often the same person will have different kinds of asthma at different times…cough variant asthma is actually fairly common, which may be what you have, it doesn’t involve wheezing and is sometimes misdiagnosed…it sounds like you have a pretty competent doctor there are two main types of inhaler…preventers and rescue…there are several different options of both drug and delivery system for each…if you are having any sort of problem with the inhaler you have been prescribed then you should go back to the doctor and see what other options he has got…different people react differently to each, so it may take a while to find the right ones for you hang on in there…with a good treatment plan the milder forms of asthma can be controlled to the point of barely even being an irritation whatever…you are in good company…and welcome — eric "in the beginning was the word, and the word was ‘try switching the damn thing on first’"
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