Question:
This is a long post, so I apologise in advance. I have been reading this newsgroup for a few weeks now, and I am very impressed with the quality of the informaton I have found. I have a few questions that I would like some help with. My 12 year old daughter apparently has asthma-I say apparently because she has not been to a pulmonologist yet, and the one her pediatrician wants her to see can’t take her until May(!) She had practically never been sick in her life, but last year she started telling me that every time they ran the mile in P.E. she would start to cough, felt like she couldn’t breathe,and didn’t feel better for quite a while. I had no idea at the time that this was a sign of asthma–just thought she was out of shape. Then she got a virus over Christmas that took a while to get over. Later in the spring she developed a cough that wouldn’t go away, and I took her to the doctor, who said she was wheezing and put her on Azmacort and Maxair. She said at the time that sometimes when kids get sick, their lungs get twitchy for a while. She got better, and stopped using her inhalers. she was okay over the summer, although I noticed that sometimes she would get out of breath, and it would have a kind of hollow sound to it. Then in September she got very congested, coughing, and wheezy, doctor put her back on the same inhalors but still didn’t feel that we should be looking for asthma. Well, at the end of November, after six weeks of azmacort 16 puffs a day, Maxair 8 puffs a day, two rounds of antibiotics, and 5 days of prednisone she was still wheezing and congested, and could’nt make it through a day at school because she was so nauseated from the drainage. At that point she was sent for chest and sinus xrays, and blood tests. Any form of infection was ruled out. She had a spirometry, which was normal, but she had used Proventil in the Doctor’s office a couple hours before. We also did a test for alpha1 antitrypsin deficiency because her father, who was heterozygous for it, died from it at the age of 43 (he had liver disease,but his sister tells me he had respiratory problem a lot as a child and teen.) Her test came back last week, and she does have the gene. (I know that this is not what’s causing her problems now, but it is a concern for later in her life, and I want to do whatever it takes to protect her lungs now.) At this point her pediatrician consulted with the above-mentioned pulmonologist and she was put on Flovent 110mcg 4 puffs bid, Intal 2 puffs bid, and serevent 2 puffs bid.(Also Astilin, which she hates and doesn"t use like she should.) The change has been amazing. She was also given a peak flow meter, and when she got it she was lucky if she could get it up to 300 (she’s 12 and 5′8"–can’t find an average on the chart for her height!) Now she’s usually around 400-410 most mornings and evenings. I’m sorry this took so long-now my questions: Doctor’s a little vague about when she can come down on the amount of meds she’s using. I took her down to 2 puffs Flovent the other day with her doctors okay and she’s doing fine it looks like. Should we be aiming to get her down or off the other stuff? If this isn’t asthma what could it be? What kinds of information should I be noting for the Pulmonologist when we go? She got her peak flow up to 430 once. Is this her personal best, or should I consider 410 her best since that’s her recent afternoon rate? I bought the Asthma Sourcebook and it is helpful, but I still am confused, mainly about medications and the approach we should be taking. I apologise again for the length of this post, but I do appreciate any perspectives you can give me.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 12 year old daughter apparently has asthma-I say apparently because she has not been to a pulmonologist yet, and the one her pediatrician wants her to see can’t take her until May(!) She had practically never been sick in her life, but last year she started telling me that every time they ran the mile in P.E. she would start to cough, felt like she couldn’t breathe,and didn’t feel better for quite a while. I had no idea at the time that this was a sign of asthma–just thought she was out of shape. Then she got a virus over Christmas that took a while to get over. Later in the spring she developed a cough that wouldn’t go away, and I took her to the doctor, who said she was wheezing and put her on Azmacort and Maxair. She said at the time that sometimes when kids get sick, their lungs get twitchy for a while. She got better, and stopped using her inhalers. she was okay over the summer, although I noticed that sometimes she would get out of breath, and it would have a kind of hollow sound to it. Then in September she got very congested, coughing, and wheezy, doctor put her back on the same inhalors but still didn’t feel that we should be looking for asthma. Well, at the end of November, after six weeks of azmacort 16 puffs a day, Maxair 8 puffs a day, two rounds of antibiotics, and 5 days of prednisone she was still wheezing and congested, and could’nt make it through a day at school because she was so nauseated from the drainage. At that point she was sent for chest and sinus xrays, and blood tests. Any form of infection was ruled out. She had a spirometry, which was normal, but she had used Proventil in the Doctor’s office a couple hours before. We also did a test for alpha1 antitrypsin deficiency because her father, who was heterozygous for it, died from it at the age of 43 (he had liver disease,but his sister tells me he had respiratory problem a lot as a child and teen.) Her test came back last week, and she does have the gene. (I know that this is not what’s causing her problems now, but it is a concern for later in her life, and I want to do whatever it takes to protect her lungs now.) At this point her pediatrician consulted with the above-mentioned pulmonologist and she was put on Flovent 110mcg 4 puffs bid, Intal 2 puffs bid, and serevent 2 puffs bid.(Also Astilin, which she hates and doesn"t use like she should.) The change has been amazing. She was also given a peak flow meter, and when she got it she was lucky if she could get it up to 300 (she’s 12 and 5′8"–can’t find an average on the chart for her height!) Now she’s usually around 400-410 most mornings and evenings. I’m sorry this took so long-now my questions: Doctor’s a little vague about when she can come down on the amount of meds she’s using. I took her down to 2 puffs Flovent the other day with her doctors okay and she’s doing fine it looks like. Should we be aiming to get her down or off the other stuff? If this isn’t asthma what could it be? What kinds of information should I be noting for the Pulmonologist when we go? She got her peak flow up to 430 once. Is this her personal best, or should I consider 410 her best since that’s her recent afternoon rate? I bought the Asthma Sourcebook and it is helpful, but I still am confused,
I checked my typical peak flow chart from the 1991 Expert Panel Report. It shows a typical Peak Flow of 467 liter/min for a child/adolescent 67" tall. I would use the 430 number as her personal best. One way to help validate the asthma diagnosis is to chart her daily peak flows for 2 weeks. Measure the low peak flow 1st thing in the morning before using a bronchodilator. Measure the high peak flow around 2pm after using a bronchodilator; variations of 15-20% tend to support the asthma diagnosis. Also if asthma meds help this also supports the asthma diagnosis. The A1AD gene also supports it, so circumstantial evidence is pretty strong. However see the links I listed below on A1AD as this is considered to be inherited emphysema that can worsen with age, especially if not properly treated. The way to confirm asthma is to have a methacholine challenge test in a pulmonary function test lab. They test lung function before and after administering the methacholine challenge at different levels, a drop in lung function of 20% tends to confirm the asthma. Then they administer the antidote which is a bronchodilator, to bring lung function back up. There is also a test for exercise-induced asthma. They simply have you exercise for a while to see if lung function drops. You might want to ask for an additional referral to an allergist to check her allergies. Many allergists are good asthma doctors and can refer to the pulmonary lab for further tests if needed; plus give advice on avoiding allergens. Even if she doesn’t have allergies an allergist may be a good choice, hopefully at an earlier date than May. She should still also see the pulmonologist, especially in view of the A1AD condition. The meds she’s on now sound OK. Flovent 110 is the corticosteroid inhaler, used 2 puffs twice a day for Moderate asthma. Intal is a mild anti-inflammatory which has minimimum side effects. (Tilade is a similar inhaler which works better for some people, but Intal is prescribed 2:1 over Tilade, Tilade works better for nonallergic asthma according to some reports) Serevent works well as a long-acting bronchodilator. In terms of reducing the meds, this should be coordinated with Peak Flow Readings and her doctor. The med with the worst side effects is of course the corticosteroid inhaler, Flovent. It would be nice if this could be reduced to a Low Dose, ie 1 puff twice a day. Continuing the ‘combination’ therapy (Serevent, Intal) can allow a lower dose of the Flovent. Peak Flow readings need to be maintained in the Green Zone (80-100%); and an Action Plan implemented if they fall into the Yellow Zone (50-80%), usually double inhaled steroids and use bronchodilator as needed. Regarding exercise-induced asthma, the usual procedure is to pretreat with a bronchodilator (Maxair, Proventil, Ventolin) before exercise. Her PE teacher should be made aware of the situation and she should stop exercising for a while if she starts to have breathing problems. She should carry her bronchodilator with her at all times in case she has an exacerbation, and for the exercise pretreatment. Astelin is a new antihistamine nasal spray, www.astelin.com If it is a problem, there are other meds that can be used Rhinitus and sinusitus needs to be well controlled as postnasal drip can aggravate the asthma. Keep reading ‘The Asthma Sourcebook’, its an excellent reference of current asthma treatment. Here are links on A1AD: A1AD INHERITED EMPHYSEMA http://www.lungusa.org/noframes/learn/lung/luna1ad.html A1AD Related Emphysema http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/AAT_MF.html Inherited Emphysema http://www.alphalink.org/faqtext.htm Alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency FAQ http://bc.sympatico.ca/healthyway/REV_HTML/R7093.html What is Alpha1-Antitrypsin Deficiency? http://www.alaw.org/cld.html Lung Disease (ALA Washington) http://www.alpha1.org/whatis/pamphlet.html Alpha 1 National Assoc. http://www.alphaone.org/ The Alpha1 Community Internet Guide Ellis
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Doctor’s a little vague about when she can come down on the amount of meds she’s using. I took her down to 2 puffs Flovent the other day with her doctors okay and she’s doing fine it looks like. Should we be aiming to get her down or off the other stuff?
It’s important to use the Flovent every day as directed, the Maxaire (or other bronchodilator) as needed or before exercise, if that is a problem. The Intal should be used daily. There is an improved form of Intal, called Tilade, that might be better, and you can ask about it. It probably won’t hurt to use the Flovent 2 puffs twice daily, if it reduces the use of the bronchodilator. It has less long-term side effects at that dose (or even higher) than the bronchodilator. But, use the bronchodilator when needed. It’s better to breathe than die. Donald Hellen (Note: Anti-Spam Measure… remove the "*" in front of our address to reply by email.)
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I also have a 12-yr-old daughter with asthma. She has been diagnosed since the age of 2. At this very minute she has a thermometer stuck in her mouth as her peak flow readings are dropping and I trying to see if she has caught a new cold virus or the Christmas tree will be out on its branches. I would insist your doctor to consult with the pulmonologist for every one of your questions. Why do you have to wait until May to get in? And can you pitch a fit? I would consider the 410 her average. Do you keep peak flow records? If you don’t have a form, make one up yourself. Document all her peak flow readings. What medication she is on and when you change it. Take a reading after she uses a bronchodilator to see what kind of effect it has. Any changes in her routine, a cold virus, exercise, visits to a friend, visits with furry friends, class field trips and where they went. Some reactions take a while to show up. Mark any change you make in the household. New pet or pet being booted outdoors and all the furniture and rugs cleaned? Covers on the mattress and pillow? New furnace filter? Since exercise seemed to bring on the problem. Keep close tabs on any episodes related to exercise. And read, read, read. If you have been lurking did you catch the address for Mothers of Asthmatics? http://www.podi.com/health/aanma (temperature is up – could this be the second cold virus in a month or a return of the old one?) very best wishs, Kathy
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Doctor’s a little vague about when she can come down on the amount of meds she’s using. I took her down to 2 puffs Flovent the other day with her doctors okay and she’s doing fine it looks like. Should we be aiming to get her down or off the other stuff? If this isn’t asthma what could it be?
One possibility is that dust mite allergen may be a contributing factor. Simple way to test would be to get a mite proof pillow encasing for each pillow she sleeps with. There is a good bit of med. lit on this issue. May be able to find locally, but easier thru one of the mail order places (Nat’l allergy supply, Allergy control products, etc.)
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doctor’s a little vague about when she can come down on the amount of meds she’s using. I took her down to 2 puffs Flovent the other day with her doctors okay and she’s doing fine it looks like. Should we be aiming to get her down or off the other stuff? If this isn’t asthma what could it be? One possibility is that dust mite allergen may be a contributing factor. Simple way to test would be to get a mite proof pillow encasing for each pillow she sleeps with.
Just a little more difficult than that. Dust mites are in the mattress, bed coverings, rugs, stuffed animals…etc.etc.etc. I would venture to say that we *all* are allergic (even if only a tiny amount) to dust mites. As far as asthmatics are concern every little thing you can do to less the habitat of dust mites will be helpful. I’ll list a few here (money prohibits/limits alot of these) Vacuum frequently. Dust frequently. Encase pillows and mattresses with coverings. Get a HEPA filter and keep it running 24 hours/day and keep bedroom door closed. Keep all animals out of bedroom. Get rid of stuffed animals in bedroom. Get rid of carpets in bedroom(whole house). Get rid of curtains in bedroom(whole house)use mini blinds. Any thing fabric will hold dead human cells and dust mites eat these things. bill
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Doesn’t anyone feel sorry for these poor cats having to eat the same flavour dry food all the time (granted Iams has about 5 flavours but they still get bored of it).
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Doesn’t anyone feel sorry for these poor cats having to eat the same flavour dry food all the time (granted Iams has about 5 flavours but they still get bored of it).
Although some of them seem to think so, cats are not furry litlle humans. They don’t know there are other flavors available. My girls have eaten the same food all their lives and continue to wolf it down. IMHO, switching too much just makes for finicky eaters. Kathie
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Before I moved in with my husband, my cats would eat the same thing everyday. My husband fed his boys a variety. Now that they are together my husband has given the variety to everyone and my girls have become as picky as the boys. I guess the saying about what you don’t no won’t hurt goes into affect here.
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My cat has become a canned food afficionado, and through so much variety she’s settled into 2-3 particular flavors. She only gets one can a day in addition to dry food. The moral of my story here is that food variety for a cat (mine, at least), allows it to find out what it likes best.
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Doesn’t anyone feel sorry for these poor cats having to eat the same flavour dry food all the time (granted Iams has about 5 flavours but they still get bored of it).
The breeder we bought our cat from feeds her cats a mixture of five different premium brands. To me, this seems like a good idea. My cat will eat anything now because she grew up on such a variety. Oh, she does seem to like Flint River the best, but if I give her something else she’ll eat it too. In my mind, mixing foods together not only prevents finickiness but if any of these foods is lacking a nutrient, she is not dependent on one single brand for all her nutrition. Of course, I know some cats would just pick out the kibbles they like and leave the rest, but maybe the key is to start when they are kittens. -yngver
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Doesn’t anyone feel sorry for these poor cats having to eat the same flavour dry food all the time (granted Iams has about 5 flavours but they still get bored of it).
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Doesn’t anyone feel sorry for these poor cats having to eat the same flavour dry food all the time (granted Iams has about 5 flavours but they still get bored of it).
Although some of them seem to think so, cats are not furry litlle humans. They don’t know there are other flavors available. My girls have eaten the same food all their lives and continue to wolf it down. IMHO, switching too much just makes for finicky eaters. Kathie
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Before I moved in with my husband, my cats would eat the same thing everyday. My husband fed his boys a variety. Now that they are together my husband has given the variety to everyone and my girls have become as picky as the boys. I guess the saying about what you don’t no won’t hurt goes into affect here.
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My cat has become a canned food afficionado, and through so much variety she’s settled into 2-3 particular flavors. She only gets one can a day in addition to dry food. The moral of my story here is that food variety for a cat (mine, at least), allows it to find out what it likes best.
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Doesn’t anyone feel sorry for these poor cats having to eat the same flavour dry food all the time (granted Iams has about 5 flavours but they still get bored of it).
The breeder we bought our cat from feeds her cats a mixture of five different premium brands. To me, this seems like a good idea. My cat will eat anything now because she grew up on such a variety. Oh, she does seem to like Flint River the best, but if I give her something else she’ll eat it too. In my mind, mixing foods together not only prevents finickiness but if any of these foods is lacking a nutrient, she is not dependent on one single brand for all her nutrition. Of course, I know some cats would just pick out the kibbles they like and leave the rest, but maybe the key is to start when they are kittens. -yngver
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Alrite i have a ‘93 Civic LX model and on acceleration when the engine is cold i hear a sort of rattling sound that goes away after the engine warms up. Now my experience is only with older cars and this normally indicates main/engine bearing problem… whaddya think? Theres only like 80k on the engine. And what can i do about squeeky brakes… when ya first step on the brake its like CHirp! then it fades to squeeeeek and i replaced the pads not to long ago but long enough ago for them to be broken in.
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Rattling when cold, is piston slap. It goes away as motor warms up and pistons expand to fit the cylinders. Just be easy until engine is warm enuf to not "rattle." BTW change the the timing belt and water pump at 90,000 Miles. C. Tague aka. Mista Bone "Baby won’t you rock it tonight." 93 Honda Civic DX HB 1.5L NO VTEC! #17 DSP AEM,Neuspeed, Eibach, Stillen, & BFG R1
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Alrite i have a ‘93 Civic LX model and on acceleration when the engine is cold i hear a sort of rattling sound that goes away after the engine warms up. Now my experience is only with older cars and this normally indicates main/engine bearing problem… whaddya think?
Where’s the sound coming from? I had a metallic rattle when cold coming from underneath my ‘88 Integra many years back. Turned out to be a loose heat shield over the catalytic converter–when warm the metal expanded sufficiently that the rattle went away. Cost maybe twenty bucks to get it resoldered and clamped. Just a thought that isn’t an expensive engine problem. :) Dennis
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Alrite i have a ‘93 Civic LX model and on acceleration when the engine is cold i hear a sort of rattling sound that goes away after the engine warms up. Now my experience is only with older cars and this normally indicates main/engine bearing problem… whaddya think? Theres only like 80k on the engine. And what can i do about squeeky brakes… when ya first step on the brake its like CHirp! then it fades to squeeeeek and i replaced the pads not to long ago but long enough ago for them to be broken in.
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Rattling when cold, is piston slap. It goes away as motor warms up and pistons expand to fit the cylinders. Just be easy until engine is warm enuf to not "rattle." BTW change the the timing belt and water pump at 90,000 Miles. C. Tague aka. Mista Bone "Baby won’t you rock it tonight." 93 Honda Civic DX HB 1.5L NO VTEC! #17 DSP AEM,Neuspeed, Eibach, Stillen, & BFG R1
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Alrite i have a ‘93 Civic LX model and on acceleration when the engine is cold i hear a sort of rattling sound that goes away after the engine warms up. Now my experience is only with older cars and this normally indicates main/engine bearing problem… whaddya think?
Where’s the sound coming from? I had a metallic rattle when cold coming from underneath my ‘88 Integra many years back. Turned out to be a loose heat shield over the catalytic converter–when warm the metal expanded sufficiently that the rattle went away. Cost maybe twenty bucks to get it resoldered and clamped. Just a thought that isn’t an expensive engine problem. :) Dennis
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[stuff deleted about host's name on invitation] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I’ve said before, I believe that a host is someone who takes on the responsibility for making sure the guests are happy, entertained, and comfortable throughout the event. A host greets guests and says good-bye to them. A host keeps an eye on the event and makes sure everyone is doing ok. Sometimes the bride and groom do this without help from any parents. In this case, I think the invitations should be issued by the bride and groom. If they want to acknowledge parents, they can do so with a "son of" and "daughter of" line. (If they really want to honor one or both sets of parents they can put them at the top of the invitation as, I suppose, honorary hosts.) If the bride’s family is looking after guests, then the bride and groom can call themselves honored guests and the groom’s family, if desired, can properly be acknowledged with a "son of" line (and, of course, vice versa if the groom’s family hosts). When both sets of parents take on host duties, then both are properly named at the top of the invitation.
[more stuff deleted - including sending thank you to the host] At all of the weddings I have been to in Minnesota (and western Wisconsin) one of the honorary duties is host/hostess. This is done to allow the parents of the bride and groom to enjoy the day with the bride and groom. This is often an older friend of one or both of the families who knows what is supposed to happen and does all the host things mentioned above. When such a position exists – they really weren’t involved in the planning and expenses at all – they are just there as a double check that everyone has a good time, etc. IMO, there should be no wrong or right way (obviously only my opinion) but the bride and groom should determine together what they want to say – because as it has been said many times – it is _their_ wedding — I know this is easier said then done, heck, who am I to talk I haven’t gone through this. 
Paula PS I never thought about sending a thank you to the host/hostess (I always knew who did the planning/paying and just sent to all involved with it) but after thinking about their responsibility – I probably should include them on my list too. — Roseville, MN, USA * necessarily those of my company.
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BTW, I think it’s lovely that you send a thank you note – is this common in your area (ie. do most wedding guests send a thank you note to the hosts)?
Nope, it’s not all that common. I just think that anyone who’s provided an evening of entertainment for me should at least get a note of thanks From my perspective, it seems as though thank you notes are pretty rare (with the possible exception of brides thanking their guests for gifts, and even that appears to be a hated task for many brides). My experience has been that people fall all over themselves with shock when they get a thank you note. It’s such a small effort on my part and they seem so thrilled, so I try to do it whenever I can. (I’m sure there are other thank you note writers out there–I just don’t know all that many of them.) Ericka
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| | As a guest, however, I also like to know who | the real hosts are. If I have some difficulty, I want to know who to phone. Often wedding invitations come with little maps and other info, such as bride’s, groom’s and/or parents’ phone numbers. We provided numbers that guests could call for any reason, including the phone number of the church and the reception hall in case they got lost on the way! | When it’s all over, I want to know who to send a thank | you letter to. I don’t want to send a letter saying thanks for | arranging such a lovely evening to someone who had no hand in | arranging it! | As is often the case nowadays, the B&G may live in a different city than their parents. Thus, weddings are not always held in the bride’s hometown anymore. So even though the wedding invitation might be issued from the bride’s and/or groom’s parents, the parents may not have all that much to do when it comes to "arranging" the wedding. As traditions and social norms change, I expect you will find it increasingly difficult to determine who actually did the wedding arrangements just by looking at the invitation. In my case, we put both sets of parents on the invitation but they had little to do with the planning or execution of the wedding because they live out of town. On the other hand, my parents acted as hosts at the reception, mingling with other guests, introducing people in my family to my husband’s family, etc. Still, I think I’d be a little miffed if someone sent my parents a note saying "what a wonderful wedding you did!" when *I* actually did all the work. 
BTW, I think it’s lovely that you send a thank you note – is this common in your area (ie. do most wedding guests send a thank you note to the hosts)? — Colette George Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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{much deleted about whose names to put on the invitations} Before you put *anyone’s* name on them (except your own, obviously) CHECK WITH THEM. My mother requested that my parents’ names *not* be on it, since they disapproved of the wedding. That was fine with us (it’s a *really* long story…). Beth — "We are not free; it was never intended we should be. A book of rules is placed in our cradles, and we never get rid of it until we reach our graves."–E.W. Howe, 1924
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I agree as well, with putting both sets of parents’ names on the invites. My parents are footing the bill for almost the entire wedding (excluding the rehearsal dinner), but my mom wanted both sets of parents to be included on the invitation. Here’s why: My brother was just married about 3 weeks ago now. The invitations that my new sister-in-law ordered and sent out only had her parents name on there. It made my mom feel like they were declaring to the world that this was *their* wedding and didn’t really involve the Sparks side except for the groom.
I agree that it is often a nice sentiment to include both sets of parents on the invitations, and I’d be the last person to disagree with the people who choose to do so. However, I think perhaps some people are getting a bit more emotionally invested in this piece of paper than might be good for them. An invitation to a wedding is just that–an *invitation*–and the names that go at the top are the people hosting the event, just as is the case for every other event for which people send out invitations. If one or both sets of parents are not functioning as hosts (which, by the way, does not necessarily have anything to do with who’s paying for what), then omitting the names of those parents at the top of the invitation should not necessarily be taken as a slight by those parents. (Note that when other hostilities are in evidence, someone might choose to see this as yet another offense, but I’m just saying that in and of itself, there is not disrespect implies by not listing a non-host in a position reserved for hosts.) As I’ve said before, I believe that a host is someone who takes on the responsibility for making sure the guests are happy, entertained, and comfortable throughout the event. A host greets guests and says good-bye to them. A host keeps an eye on the event and makes sure everyone is doing ok. Sometimes the bride and groom do this without help from any parents. In this case, I think the invitations should be issued by the bride and groom. If they want to acknowledge parents, they can do so with a "son of" and "daughter of" line. (If they really want to honor one or both sets of parents they can put them at the top of the invitation as, I suppose, honorary hosts.) If the bride’s family is looking after guests, then the bride and groom can call themselves honored guests and the groom’s family, if desired, can properly be acknowledged with a "son of" line (and, of course, vice versa if the groom’s family hosts). When both sets of parents take on host duties, then both are properly named at the top of the invitation. Obviously, this is only my own opinion (though I think it’s grounded in a certain rationality). I understand that it’s easy for a groom’s family to feel left out. I certainly think that it’s a nice gesture to acknowledge both families in some way (the "son of" line is traditionally a part of a Jewish wedding invitation–yet another time the Jews have come up with a nice solution to a wedding etiquette dilemma!). As a guest, however, I also like to know who the real hosts are. If I have some difficulty, I want to know who to phone. When it’s all over, I want to know who to send a thank you letter to. I don’t want to send a letter saying thanks for arranging such a lovely evening to someone who had no hand in arranging it! Ericka
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: he explained to me about the "film wars" of the : early 80’s that a 35mm camera of today is just as good as a medium format. False : First of all, it’s auto-focus and he can take "quick" pictures, True : and the quality of the print is all in the film and the lab. Partially true : Can anyone give me : any insight into this? I’ve been told to always use a medium-format camera. The real question is whether you (the Bride and Groom) will be able to tell the difference between photos taken with 35mm vs. medium format equipment. In 4×5" pictures, they are indistinguishable. In a 16×20 wall portrait, the difference will be obvious. At 8×10, I can tell the difference, but you may not be able to, or you may not care. I think you should visit a photographer who shoots with both 35mm and medium format, and ask him to show you the difference it makes in the prints. — Paul Nuber Hewlett-Packard Co. Fort Collins, CO
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : he explained to me about the "film wars" of the : early 80’s that a 35mm camera of today is just as good as a medium format. False : First of all, it’s auto-focus and he can take "quick" pictures, True : and the quality of the print is all in the film and the lab. Partially true : Can anyone give me : any insight into this? I’ve been told to always use a medium-format camera. The real question is whether you (the Bride and Groom) will be able to tell the difference between photos taken with 35mm vs. medium format equipment. In 4×5" pictures, they are indistinguishable. In a 16×20 wall portrait, the difference will be obvious. At 8×10, I can tell the difference, but you may not be able to, or you may not care. I think you should visit a photographer who shoots with both 35mm and medium format ….
I agree with what Paul has advised. The respective formats have their strengths. However you must realize several more important advantages of medium format – especially square format – for wedding photography. Even if you are only getting 5" pictures, the medium format negative has the advantages of greater flexibilty in cropping, ability to have retouching done right on the negative, and FAR GREATER flexibility in album layout. Here’s the scoop on negative retouching. Common facila problems needing attention are lines, scars, blemishes, and pimples. Removing them is a simple matter on a medium format negative. Once they are pencilled out on the negative, they are gone forever on all subsequent prints. In 35mm, this retouching cannot be done on the neg and must be done on EVERY PRINT. The 35mm frame is proportioned for an 8×12 or 4×6 print. An 8×10 print – common for albums – cuts off 17% of the image length. That is a serious problem for groups and full length shots, so the photogapher must compose very carefully if 8×10s are to be made. There are 4×6 albums, but no albums yet that I’m aware of for 8×12. The unpredictable nature of wedding photography often necessitates cropping and realignment of the images. That is an easy matter for medium format. Many pro labs supply the photographer a set of variable-size aperture cards for placement of the neg. To do this in 35mm requires expensive hand custom printing. In 35mm, focus is far more critical due to the degree of enlargement. For an 8×10, a 2-1/4 neg is enlarged about 4X; a 35mm neg about 8x. Focus errors do happen, no matter what kind of gear is used. They will kill a 35mm image before a medium format image. Still another medium format advantage is that you can use the faster films – like ASA 400 Vericolor and Pro 400 – with no apparent increase in grain in the print. Do the same in 35mm and there is a visible loss of image detail and increase in grain. Like many photographers, I like ASA 400 film because it gives me more time for sunrise and suset pictures and lets me use soft bounce-flash lighting instead of harsh direct flash. I can operate my flash at lower power which is easier on my battery and the guest’s eyes. The pictures have a wonderful natural look. So retouching and cropping costs often make 35mm shooting more expensive than medium format. But there are many situations where 35mm is better than medium format. Wide-to-tele zooms are not available yet in medium format. I can zoom my 35mm lens faster than changing my medium format lens. My 35’s motor drive is fast. The infrared enhanced autofocus gets me good shots even in the dark. The equipment is lighter and more responsive. The computer comtrolled cameras and flashes allow me to do wonderful shots mixing flash and natural light. I can also do neat shots with strobe effect and second-curtain sync (example – showing the bouquet streak thru the air and sharp at themoment it is caught). Bottom line: there’s no clear winner. It depends on what the wedding couple want. Those placing a high priority on their album expect pro equipment and materials to be used so that means medium format. Those wanting lots of natural pictures wuickly and making thier own book are usually happy with 35mm. Mixing is also possible. /|/| /||)|/ /~ /| ||)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
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| | For me, including both sets of parents on the invitations was a | "feel-good" thing, decoupled from the financial aspects. | I totally agree. My husband and I paid for the entire wedding ourselves, but we wanted to honour our parents in some way and felt it appropriate to put both names on the invitation. They were thrilled. -- Colette George Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Another $.02 worth...... I agree as well, with putting both sets of parents' names on the invites. My parents are footing the bill for almost the entire wedding (excluding the rehearsal dinner), but my mom wanted both sets of parents to be included on the invitation. Here's why: My brother was just married about 3 weeks ago now. The invitations that my new sister-in-law ordered and sent out only had her parents name on there. It made my mom feel like they were declaring to the world that this was *their* wedding and didn't really involve the Sparks side except for the groom. Well her feelings were already a little sensitive on the subject for varying reasons, so she wanted to just make sure that the same kind of feelings were not conveyed to my honey's side by us. Anyway I'm happy to put both sets of names on the invitation. It really is a celebration for all the parents and yourselves. Too, your parents, his parents, and yourselves are inviting the guests. It just seemed a nice thing to do. (I know that this goes against traditional wording and is considered one of the contemporary wordings. Oh well. I like contemporary over traditional when I decorate anyway Sonja and Fred November 6, 1993-- Analyst/Programmer Rochester, Minnesota
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The rule of ettiquette is that whoever pays for the wedding is the host. In this case it's not clear exactly who's paying for the wedding, since the money is kind-of a gift to you, and then you can spend it on whatever you want. IMO that makes it somewhat ambiguous about who's actually paying for the wedding, and thus leaves it up to you how you want your invitations to read.
No, no! The person or persons acting as hosts are the hosts of the wedding, regardless of whether they are paying for the wedding or not! The function of host(ess) cannot be bought. The host is the person who greets guests, makes sure they're being taken care of properly, accepts their congratulations for having produced a lovely wedding, receives guests on their way out the door, and so forth. The bridal couple can certainly be the hosts, but many choose a role more appropriate to guests of honor precisely so that they can be free of the responsibilites of being hosts. Certainly, many brides and grooms help out with the duties of hosting, but it's the responsibility not the money that makes one a host. Ericka
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| | For me, including both sets of parents on the invitations was a | "feel-good" thing, decoupled from the financial aspects. | I totally agree. My husband and I paid for the entire wedding ourselves, but we wanted to honour our parents in some way and felt it appropriate to put both names on the invitation. They were thrilled. -- Colette George Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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[parents] can only afford $5000 for the wedding…actually, I would get the $5000 anyway as a graduation gift and if I choose to spend it on the wedding, then so be it. Anyway, my fiance is in the working world and we’ve decided to go ahead with it spending an additional $5000 on the wedding and $5000 on the honeymoon. So on the invitation should I put "Mr. and Mrs. Richard Leung invite you to the marriage of their daughter…" or "Pamela Leung and David Harper along with her parents…" or since the money isn’t really "wedding money", "Pamela Leung and David Harper invite you…".
The rule of ettiquette is that whoever pays for the wedding is the host. In this case it’s not clear exactly who’s paying for the wedding, since the money is kind-of a gift to you, and then you can spend it on whatever you want. IMO that makes it somewhat ambiguous about who’s actually paying for the wedding, and thus leaves it up to you how you want your invitations to read. IMO, it is appropriate to include your parents (and his too) on the invitation whether or not they are actually paying. My invites read something like "Together with their parents XXX and YYY request the honor of your presence …" I felt that it was a good thing to include the parents even though the paying of the wedding was somewhat ambiguous (neither set of parents had at the time actually said whether they would contribute or not, and we were prepared to pay for the whole thing ourselves). The point was that they were backing us emotionally, even though they had not (yet, they did later, partially) committed to backing us financially. For me, including both sets of parents on the invitations was a "feel-good" thing, decoupled from the financial aspects. — — Michal Impressive amounts of material can be accreted in this manner.
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Hi everyone! I just had a quick question about wedding invitations…but first, here’s the situation: I’m getting married on Sept 3, 1994. So far, I have the reception hall and wedding location and now it’s photographer time. I just met with one last night and I was told when he explained to me about the "film wars" of the early 80’s that a 35mm camera of today is just as good as a medium format. First of all, it’s auto-focus and he can take "quick" pictures, and the quality of the print is all in the film and the lab. Can anyone give me any insight into this? I’ve been told to always use a medium-format camera. Anyway…to the invitations…since I am now into my super-senior year of college, and my college fund has run out, my parents have told me that if I (and my fiance) insist on Sept, that they can only afford $5000 for the wedding…actually, I would get the $5000 anyway as a graduation gift and if I choose to spend it on the wedding, then so be it. Anyway, my fiance is in the working world and we’ve decided to go ahead with it spending an additional $5000 on the wedding and $5000 on the honeymoon. So on the invitation should I put "Mr. and Mrs. Richard Leung invite you to the marriage of their daughter…" or "Pamela Leung and David Harper along with her parents…" or since the money isn’t really "wedding money", "Pamela Leung and David Harper invite you…". Thanks in advance! Pam Leung :) :wq D D D D D A A A A A
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Hi everyone! I just had a quick question about wedding invitations…but first, here’s the situation: I’m getting married on Sept 3, 1994. So far, I have the reception hall and wedding location and now it’s photographer time. I just met with one last night and I was told when he explained to me about the "film wars" of the early 80’s that a 35mm camera of today is just as good as a medium format. First of all, it’s auto-focus and he can take "quick" pictures, and the quality of the print is all in the film and the lab. Can anyone give me any insight into this? I’ve been told to always use a medium-format camera.
Pamela, What the photographer told you is true and false. The film wars he mentioned is another way of saying that the film technology is always moving forward and that the technical quality is better than it was before. Improvements in the film are passed down to both 35mm and medium format users. So when he says that the 35mm camera can now equal the results found in medium format cameras he is comparing the new film in the 35mm camera to the old film in the medium format cameras. But when you put the new films in the medium format camera the technical quality of it’s print also improves just as much. At which point the technical quality gap between the 35mm and the medium format cameras reappears. The 35mm auto focus cameras allow for quick or candid pictures to be taken, but this is not to say that it is impossible to take quick photographs with a manual focus camera. An example where auto focus cameras can be helpful is in low light conditions where use the electronic flash can help the camera focus where focusing manually would be impaired. The problem with this is these special flash units are designed for the autofocus camera and are relatively low in output power. This means the camera with the flash has a limited range in which good photographs can be produced while in the low light conditions. So the best place for this combination is taking candid shots of guests at their tables at the reception or at dance floor where the camera to subject distance is short. As to his second statement about the quality of the print being in the film and the lab, well that is not quite true in and by itself. The photographer, the camera, the film, and the lab form a chain of quality, should any link of the chain be weak or break down the quality of the print would fail. An example of this, lets say that the photographer shoots a wedding completely using the best cameras, film, and processing labs but he or she doesn’t know what to photograph or does not get the pictures you wanted. What good are the photographs? Sure they are technically good but they are useless and of no value to you. Quality to me is giving what the customer wants and needs at a fair price. So what about the medium format cameras? Why do professionals use them? Where are many reasons a professional wedding photographer would use the medium format camera, but the bottom line for them is quality. The professional has learned which camera system works the best for different photographic requirements and situations. It is posible that a photographer would both formats in a wedding assignment. But if he or she is limited to a single system they will choose the system that will provide the best quality product. So what you are paying for is the photographer’s experience, judgement and skill, not the price of his film and processing only. What is the bottom line? Quality, getting what you want at a fair price. When you look at the work of various photographers in your area ask yourself is this the kind of pictures I want of my wedding? Are the photographs sharp enough for you? Are the face colors real? Is the wedding dress really white and can you see the fine details in the dress? Does the photographer capture the spirit of the Wedding? What separates this photographer’s work from the others, what is that special something? Independant of the technical issues of camera formats and films, what is the end result, do you like what you see? You may find that a good photographer can make good photographs with either camera formats and that a poor photographer cannot make a good photograph with all the best possible camera equipment. I hope I have of some help, Don Farra "Have you ever been in love? Only then you can photograph." A. Stieglitz
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[stuff deleted about host's name on invitation] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I’ve said before, I believe that a host is someone who takes on the responsibility for making sure the guests are happy, entertained, and comfortable throughout the event. A host greets guests and says good-bye to them. A host keeps an eye on the event and makes sure everyone is doing ok. Sometimes the bride and groom do this without help from any parents. In this case, I think the invitations should be issued by the bride and groom. If they want to acknowledge parents, they can do so with a "son of" and "daughter of" line. (If they really want to honor one or both sets of parents they can put them at the top of the invitation as, I suppose, honorary hosts.) If the bride’s family is looking after guests, then the bride and groom can call themselves honored guests and the groom’s family, if desired, can properly be acknowledged with a "son of" line (and, of course, vice versa if the groom’s family hosts). When both sets of parents take on host duties, then both are properly named at the top of the invitation.
[more stuff deleted - including sending thank you to the host] At all of the weddings I have been to in Minnesota (and western Wisconsin) one of the honorary duties is host/hostess. This is done to allow the parents of the bride and groom to enjoy the day with the bride and groom. This is often an older friend of one or both of the families who knows what is supposed to happen and does all the host things mentioned above. When such a position exists – they really weren’t involved in the planning and expenses at all – they are just there as a double check that everyone has a good time, etc. IMO, there should be no wrong or right way (obviously only my opinion) but the bride and groom should determine together what they want to say – because as it has been said many times – it is _their_ wedding — I know this is easier said then done, heck, who am I to talk I haven’t gone through this. Paula PS I never thought about sending a thank you to the host/hostess (I always knew who did the planning/paying and just sent to all involved with it) but after thinking about their responsibility – I probably should include them on my list too. — Roseville, MN, USA * necessarily those of my company.
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BTW, I think it’s lovely that you send a thank you note – is this common in your area (ie. do most wedding guests send a thank you note to the hosts)?
Nope, it’s not all that common. I just think that anyone who’s provided an evening of entertainment for me should at least get a note of thanks From my perspective, it seems as though thank you notes are pretty rare (with the possible exception of brides thanking their guests for gifts, and even that appears to be a hated task for many brides). My experience has been that people fall all over themselves with shock when they get a thank you note. It’s such a small effort on my part and they seem so thrilled, so I try to do it whenever I can. (I’m sure there are other thank you note writers out there–I just don’t know all that many of them.) Ericka
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| | As a guest, however, I also like to know who | the real hosts are. If I have some difficulty, I want to know who to phone. Often wedding invitations come with little maps and other info, such as bride’s, groom’s and/or parents’ phone numbers. We provided numbers that guests could call for any reason, including the phone number of the church and the reception hall in case they got lost on the way! | When it’s all over, I want to know who to send a thank | you letter to. I don’t want to send a letter saying thanks for | arranging such a lovely evening to someone who had no hand in | arranging it! | As is often the case nowadays, the B&G may live in a different city than their parents. Thus, weddings are not always held in the bride’s hometown anymore. So even though the wedding invitation might be issued from the bride’s and/or groom’s parents, the parents may not have all that much to do when it comes to "arranging" the wedding. As traditions and social norms change, I expect you will find it increasingly difficult to determine who actually did the wedding arrangements just by looking at the invitation. In my case, we put both sets of parents on the invitation but they had little to do with the planning or execution of the wedding because they live out of town. On the other hand, my parents acted as hosts at the reception, mingling with other guests, introducing people in my family to my husband’s family, etc. Still, I think I’d be a little miffed if someone sent my parents a note saying "what a wonderful wedding you did!" when *I* actually did all the work. BTW, I think it’s lovely that you send a thank you note – is this common in your area (ie. do most wedding guests send a thank you note to the hosts)? — Colette George Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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{much deleted about whose names to put on the invitations} Before you put *anyone’s* name on them (except your own, obviously) CHECK WITH THEM. My mother requested that my parents’ names *not* be on it, since they disapproved of the wedding. That was fine with us (it’s a *really* long story…). Beth — "We are not free; it was never intended we should be. A book of rules is placed in our cradles, and we never get rid of it until we reach our graves."–E.W. Howe, 1924
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I agree as well, with putting both sets of parents’ names on the invites. My parents are footing the bill for almost the entire wedding (excluding the rehearsal dinner), but my mom wanted both sets of parents to be included on the invitation. Here’s why: My brother was just married about 3 weeks ago now. The invitations that my new sister-in-law ordered and sent out only had her parents name on there. It made my mom feel like they were declaring to the world that this was *their* wedding and didn’t really involve the Sparks side except for the groom.
I agree that it is often a nice sentiment to include both sets of parents on the invitations, and I’d be the last person to disagree with the people who choose to do so. However, I think perhaps some people are getting a bit more emotionally invested in this piece of paper than might be good for them. An invitation to a wedding is just that–an *invitation*–and the names that go at the top are the people hosting the event, just as is the case for every other event for which people send out invitations. If one or both sets of parents are not functioning as hosts (which, by the way, does not necessarily have anything to do with who’s paying for what), then omitting the names of those parents at the top of the invitation should not necessarily be taken as a slight by those parents. (Note that when other hostilities are in evidence, someone might choose to see this as yet another offense, but I’m just saying that in and of itself, there is not disrespect implies by not listing a non-host in a position reserved for hosts.) As I’ve said before, I believe that a host is someone who takes on the responsibility for making sure the guests are happy, entertained, and comfortable throughout the event. A host greets guests and says good-bye to them. A host keeps an eye on the event and makes sure everyone is doing ok. Sometimes the bride and groom do this without help from any parents. In this case, I think the invitations should be issued by the bride and groom. If they want to acknowledge parents, they can do so with a "son of" and "daughter of" line. (If they really want to honor one or both sets of parents they can put them at the top of the invitation as, I suppose, honorary hosts.) If the bride’s family is looking after guests, then the bride and groom can call themselves honored guests and the groom’s family, if desired, can properly be acknowledged with a "son of" line (and, of course, vice versa if the groom’s family hosts). When both sets of parents take on host duties, then both are properly named at the top of the invitation. Obviously, this is only my own opinion (though I think it’s grounded in a certain rationality). I understand that it’s easy for a groom’s family to feel left out. I certainly think that it’s a nice gesture to acknowledge both families in some way (the "son of" line is traditionally a part of a Jewish wedding invitation–yet another time the Jews have come up with a nice solution to a wedding etiquette dilemma!). As a guest, however, I also like to know who the real hosts are. If I have some difficulty, I want to know who to phone. When it’s all over, I want to know who to send a thank you letter to. I don’t want to send a letter saying thanks for arranging such a lovely evening to someone who had no hand in arranging it! Ericka
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: he explained to me about the "film wars" of the : early 80’s that a 35mm camera of today is just as good as a medium format. False : First of all, it’s auto-focus and he can take "quick" pictures, True : and the quality of the print is all in the film and the lab. Partially true : Can anyone give me : any insight into this? I’ve been told to always use a medium-format camera. The real question is whether you (the Bride and Groom) will be able to tell the difference between photos taken with 35mm vs. medium format equipment. In 4×5" pictures, they are indistinguishable. In a 16×20 wall portrait, the difference will be obvious. At 8×10, I can tell the difference, but you may not be able to, or you may not care. I think you should visit a photographer who shoots with both 35mm and medium format, and ask him to show you the difference it makes in the prints. — Paul Nuber Hewlett-Packard Co. Fort Collins, CO
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : he explained to me about the "film wars" of the : early 80’s that a 35mm camera of today is just as good as a medium format. False : First of all, it’s auto-focus and he can take "quick" pictures, True : and the quality of the print is all in the film and the lab. Partially true : Can anyone give me : any insight into this? I’ve been told to always use a medium-format camera. The real question is whether you (the Bride and Groom) will be able to tell the difference between photos taken with 35mm vs. medium format equipment. In 4×5" pictures, they are indistinguishable. In a 16×20 wall portrait, the difference will be obvious. At 8×10, I can tell the difference, but you may not be able to, or you may not care. I think you should visit a photographer who shoots with both 35mm and medium format ….
I agree with what Paul has advised. The respective formats have their strengths. However you must realize several more important advantages of medium format – especially square format – for wedding photography. Even if you are only getting 5" pictures, the medium format negative has the advantages of greater flexibilty in cropping, ability to have retouching done right on the negative, and FAR GREATER flexibility in album layout. Here’s the scoop on negative retouching. Common facila problems needing attention are lines, scars, blemishes, and pimples. Removing them is a simple matter on a medium format negative. Once they are pencilled out on the negative, they are gone forever on all subsequent prints. In 35mm, this retouching cannot be done on the neg and must be done on EVERY PRINT. The 35mm frame is proportioned for an 8×12 or 4×6 print. An 8×10 print – common for albums – cuts off 17% of the image length. That is a serious problem for groups and full length shots, so the photogapher must compose very carefully if 8×10s are to be made. There are 4×6 albums, but no albums yet that I’m aware of for 8×12. The unpredictable nature of wedding photography often necessitates cropping and realignment of the images. That is an easy matter for medium format. Many pro labs supply the photographer a set of variable-size aperture cards for placement of the neg. To do this in 35mm requires expensive hand custom printing. In 35mm, focus is far more critical due to the degree of enlargement. For an 8×10, a 2-1/4 neg is enlarged about 4X; a 35mm neg about 8x. Focus errors do happen, no matter what kind of gear is used. They will kill a 35mm image before a medium format image. Still another medium format advantage is that you can use the faster films – like ASA 400 Vericolor and Pro 400 – with no apparent increase in grain in the print. Do the same in 35mm and there is a visible loss of image detail and increase in grain. Like many photographers, I like ASA 400 film because it gives me more time for sunrise and suset pictures and lets me use soft bounce-flash lighting instead of harsh direct flash. I can operate my flash at lower power which is easier on my battery and the guest’s eyes. The pictures have a wonderful natural look. So retouching and cropping costs often make 35mm shooting more expensive than medium format. But there are many situations where 35mm is better than medium format. Wide-to-tele zooms are not available yet in medium format. I can zoom my 35mm lens faster than changing my medium format lens. My 35’s motor drive is fast. The infrared enhanced autofocus gets me good shots even in the dark. The equipment is lighter and more responsive. The computer comtrolled cameras and flashes allow me to do wonderful shots mixing flash and natural light. I can also do neat shots with strobe effect and second-curtain sync (example – showing the bouquet streak thru the air and sharp at themoment it is caught). Bottom line: there’s no clear winner. It depends on what the wedding couple want. Those placing a high priority on their album expect pro equipment and materials to be used so that means medium format. Those wanting lots of natural pictures wuickly and making thier own book are usually happy with 35mm. Mixing is also possible. /|/| /||)|/ /~ /| ||)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
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| | For me, including both sets of parents on the invitations was a | "feel-good" thing, decoupled from the financial aspects. | I totally agree. My husband and I paid for the entire wedding ourselves, but we wanted to honour our parents in some way and felt it appropriate to put both names on the invitation. They were thrilled. -- Colette George Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Another $.02 worth...... I agree as well, with putting both sets of parents' names on the invites. My parents are footing the bill for almost the entire wedding (excluding the rehearsal dinner), but my mom wanted both sets of parents to be included on the invitation. Here's why: My brother was just married about 3 weeks ago now. The invitations that my new sister-in-law ordered and sent out only had her parents name on there. It made my mom feel like they were declaring to the world that this was *their* wedding and didn't really involve the Sparks side except for the groom. Well her feelings were already a little sensitive on the subject for varying reasons, so she wanted to just make sure that the same kind of feelings were not conveyed to my honey's side by us. Anyway I'm happy to put both sets of names on the invitation. It really is a celebration for all the parents and yourselves. Too, your parents, his parents, and yourselves are inviting the guests. It just seemed a nice thing to do. (I know that this goes against traditional wording and is considered one of the contemporary wordings. Oh well. I like contemporary over traditional when I decorate anyway Sonja and Fred November 6, 1993-- Analyst/Programmer Rochester, Minnesota
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The rule of ettiquette is that whoever pays for the wedding is the host. In this case it's not clear exactly who's paying for the wedding, since the money is kind-of a gift to you, and then you can spend it on whatever you want. IMO that makes it somewhat ambiguous about who's actually paying for the wedding, and thus leaves it up to you how you want your invitations to read.
No, no! The person or persons acting as hosts are the hosts of the wedding, regardless of whether they are paying for the wedding or not! The function of host(ess) cannot be bought. The host is the person who greets guests, makes sure they're being taken care of properly, accepts their congratulations for having produced a lovely wedding, receives guests on their way out the door, and so forth. The bridal couple can certainly be the hosts, but many choose a role more appropriate to guests of honor precisely so that they can be free of the responsibilites of being hosts. Certainly, many brides and grooms help out with the duties of hosting, but it's the responsibility not the money that makes one a host. Ericka
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| | For me, including both sets of parents on the invitations was a | "feel-good" thing, decoupled from the financial aspects. | I totally agree. My husband and I paid for the entire wedding ourselves, but we wanted to honour our parents in some way and felt it appropriate to put both names on the invitation. They were thrilled. -- Colette George Bell-Northern Research Ltd. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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[parents] can only afford $5000 for the wedding…actually, I would get the $5000 anyway as a graduation gift and if I choose to spend it on the wedding, then so be it. Anyway, my fiance is in the working world and we’ve decided to go ahead with it spending an additional $5000 on the wedding and $5000 on the honeymoon. So on the invitation should I put "Mr. and Mrs. Richard Leung invite you to the marriage of their daughter…" or "Pamela Leung and David Harper along with her parents…" or since the money isn’t really "wedding money", "Pamela Leung and David Harper invite you…".
The rule of ettiquette is that whoever pays for the wedding is the host. In this case it’s not clear exactly who’s paying for the wedding, since the money is kind-of a gift to you, and then you can spend it on whatever you want. IMO that makes it somewhat ambiguous about who’s actually paying for the wedding, and thus leaves it up to you how you want your invitations to read. IMO, it is appropriate to include your parents (and his too) on the invitation whether or not they are actually paying. My invites read something like "Together with their parents XXX and YYY request the honor of your presence …" I felt that it was a good thing to include the parents even though the paying of the wedding was somewhat ambiguous (neither set of parents had at the time actually said whether they would contribute or not, and we were prepared to pay for the whole thing ourselves). The point was that they were backing us emotionally, even though they had not (yet, they did later, partially) committed to backing us financially. For me, including both sets of parents on the invitations was a "feel-good" thing, decoupled from the financial aspects. — — Michal Impressive amounts of material can be accreted in this manner.
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Hi everyone! I just had a quick question about wedding invitations…but first, here’s the situation: I’m getting married on Sept 3, 1994. So far, I have the reception hall and wedding location and now it’s photographer time. I just met with one last night and I was told when he explained to me about the "film wars" of the early 80’s that a 35mm camera of today is just as good as a medium format. First of all, it’s auto-focus and he can take "quick" pictures, and the quality of the print is all in the film and the lab. Can anyone give me any insight into this? I’ve been told to always use a medium-format camera. Anyway…to the invitations…since I am now into my super-senior year of college, and my college fund has run out, my parents have told me that if I (and my fiance) insist on Sept, that they can only afford $5000 for the wedding…actually, I would get the $5000 anyway as a graduation gift and if I choose to spend it on the wedding, then so be it. Anyway, my fiance is in the working world and we’ve decided to go ahead with it spending an additional $5000 on the wedding and $5000 on the honeymoon. So on the invitation should I put "Mr. and Mrs. Richard Leung invite you to the marriage of their daughter…" or "Pamela Leung and David Harper along with her parents…" or since the money isn’t really "wedding money", "Pamela Leung and David Harper invite you…". Thanks in advance! Pam Leung :) :wq D D D D D A A A A A
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Hi everyone! I just had a quick question about wedding invitations…but first, here’s the situation: I’m getting married on Sept 3, 1994. So far, I have the reception hall and wedding location and now it’s photographer time. I just met with one last night and I was told when he explained to me about the "film wars" of the early 80’s that a 35mm camera of today is just as good as a medium format. First of all, it’s auto-focus and he can take "quick" pictures, and the quality of the print is all in the film and the lab. Can anyone give me any insight into this? I’ve been told to always use a medium-format camera.
Pamela, What the photographer told you is true and false. The film wars he mentioned is another way of saying that the film technology is always moving forward and that the technical quality is better than it was before. Improvements in the film are passed down to both 35mm and medium format users. So when he says that the 35mm camera can now equal the results found in medium format cameras he is comparing the new film in the 35mm camera to the old film in the medium format cameras. But when you put the new films in the medium format camera the technical quality of it’s print also improves just as much. At which point the technical quality gap between the 35mm and the medium format cameras reappears. The 35mm auto focus cameras allow for quick or candid pictures to be taken, but this is not to say that it is impossible to take quick photographs with a manual focus camera. An example where auto focus cameras can be helpful is in low light conditions where use the electronic flash can help the camera focus where focusing manually would be impaired. The problem with this is these special flash units are designed for the autofocus camera and are relatively low in output power. This means the camera with the flash has a limited range in which good photographs can be produced while in the low light conditions. So the best place for this combination is taking candid shots of guests at their tables at the reception or at dance floor where the camera to subject distance is short. As to his second statement about the quality of the print being in the film and the lab, well that is not quite true in and by itself. The photographer, the camera, the film, and the lab form a chain of quality, should any link of the chain be weak or break down the quality of the print would fail. An example of this, lets say that the photographer shoots a wedding completely using the best cameras, film, and processing labs but he or she doesn’t know what to photograph or does not get the pictures you wanted. What good are the photographs? Sure they are technically good but they are useless and of no value to you. Quality to me is giving what the customer wants and needs at a fair price. So what about the medium format cameras? Why do professionals use them? Where are many reasons a professional wedding photographer would use the medium format camera, but the bottom line for them is quality. The professional has learned which camera system works the best for different photographic requirements and situations. It is posible that a photographer would both formats in a wedding assignment. But if he or she is limited to a single system they will choose the system that will provide the best quality product. So what you are paying for is the photographer’s experience, judgement and skill, not the price of his film and processing only. What is the bottom line? Quality, getting what you want at a fair price. When you look at the work of various photographers in your area ask yourself is this the kind of pictures I want of my wedding? Are the photographs sharp enough for you? Are the face colors real? Is the wedding dress really white and can you see the fine details in the dress? Does the photographer capture the spirit of the Wedding? What separates this photographer’s work from the others, what is that special something? Independant of the technical issues of camera formats and films, what is the end result, do you like what you see? You may find that a good photographer can make good photographs with either camera formats and that a poor photographer cannot make a good photograph with all the best possible camera equipment. I hope I have of some help, Don Farra "Have you ever been in love? Only then you can photograph." A. Stieglitz
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