Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << That’s why real doctors don’t sell stuff directly to their patients…or at least it’s a practice frowned upon mightily by all the MD/DO professional organizations.  Real doctors are prohibited from owning pharmacies or MRIs or any other businesses to which they might refer their own patients. None of my doctors hand over freebies of any kind. This way they cannot be accused of favoritism towards one brand or another, and most of them refuse to take samples from suppliers. << As to the free samples from drug reps:  that’s how a lot of my patients get the medicine they need.  Many good drugs aren’t covered by Medicare, and without some samples in my closet to give to the patient, the patient would have to settle for a drug that either doesn’t work as well, or simply doesn’t work at all. I think it would be a better practice if drug companies cut their prices by an amount equal to the money they spend on luncheons and free doo-dads, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.  Until that changes, I will gladly accept free samples of drugs to ensure that I have enough on hand to give my un- or under-insured patients. So, what would happen if all of your patients, Mark, and said we want free samples because we hear that XXXX and XXX are getting free samples from you, what would you do then?  Stop giving them free samples all together to all of your patients, or have to some other explanation for your favoritism? Most people would understand that Mark is giving samples to his uninsured & under-insured patients, like he said in his post.  Ethical people understand the concept of some people being helped because they lack the financial means to pay for everything themselves.  It’s the basis for Medicaid & health insurance programs for uninsured children. Not everybody thinks helping someone with a disadvantage is "favoritism". Maybe those damn parking spaces close to the door at the mall should be re-painted?  After all, why show "favoritism" to anybody just because they have a physical challenge, eh? Unbelievable, DEBBEE……

Debbee is just pissed that she does not get any free samples. Like Jan, she only thinks of herself. Aloha, Rich.. Michele

The best defense to logic is ignorance.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << They sell a video on how it works. Pickpocketing 101. What’s the difference between this and taking money from pharmaceutical and chemical companies?  Or taking a trip on them too?   It is not a person’s life savings. That makes a BIG difference. Or in the case of those Redding, CA doctors doing surgeries that were unneccessary? Agreed. Those doctors should be criminally prosecuted, and should meet Hulda in court every day.

Heck, they are ALL enjoying themselves in Mexico!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << That’s why real doctors don’t sell stuff directly to their patients…or at least it’s a practice frowned upon mightily by all the MD/DO professional organizations.  Real doctors are prohibited from owning pharmacies or MRIs or any other businesses to which they might refer their own patients. None of my doctors hand over freebies of any kind. This way they cannot be accused of favoritism towards one brand or another, and most of them refuse to take samples from suppliers. << As to the free samples from drug reps:  that’s how a lot of my patients get the medicine they need.  Many good drugs aren’t covered by Medicare, and without some samples in my closet to give to the patient, the patient would have to settle for a drug that either doesn’t work as well, or simply doesn’t work at all. I think it would be a better practice if drug companies cut their prices by an amount equal to the money they spend on luncheons and free doo-dads, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.  Until that changes, I will gladly accept free samples of drugs to ensure that I have enough on hand to give my un- or under-insured patients. So, what would happen if all of your patients, Mark, and said we want free samples because we hear that XXXX and XXX are getting free samples from you, what would you do then?  Stop giving them free samples all together to all of your patients, or have to some other explanation for your favoritism? Most people would understand that Mark is giving samples to his uninsured & under-insured patients, like he said in his post.  Ethical people understand the concept of some people being helped because they lack the financial means to pay for everything themselves.  It’s the basis for Medicaid & health insurance programs for uninsured children. Not everybody thinks helping someone with a disadvantage is "favoritism".

What does it say about the person who thinks that it is is favoritism? Not very much, I would say. Maybe those damn parking spaces close to the door at the mall should be re-painted?  After all, why show "favoritism" to anybody just because they have a physical challenge, eh?

I wonder if Debbee still uses her blue placard? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michele

Response:

Jan Drew-w-w-w-w-w-w where are you-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The difference between paying a pharmaceutical company for medicines and paying Hulda for her zapper, synchrometer, liver cleanses and Tijuana-based treatments (oh, right, I forgot the Mexicans kicked her out…) is that… …this might be tough for you… …Hulda is a quack and her treatments are based on a delusional fairy tale view of how the world works.  Modern pharmaceuticals, medical approaches to disease and surgical interventions are based on reproducible scientific inquiry. (Cue Jan to post a list of "bad words" like **reproducible** **proof**  **science**, etc.) Mark, MD

Response:

BELOW: Comparing conventional medicine to Hulda Clark Cancer Zapper: What’s the difference between this and taking money from pharmaceutical and chemical companies?  

Jan — busy Jan —- Baking — Cake — File Jan — Defending —- Hulda! *** – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of the Hulda victims have spent their life savings on her quackery. Sure glad there is nobody who has ever spent their life savings on conventional medicine. Only to be told, we can do nothing, go home and get things in order. http://www.drclark.net/utilities/prod_wind.htm Jan Mark, Who in hell said it was a persons life savings? Do you think that other people do not know what a scam is besides yourself? Dr Terry Polevoy recently stated that there is no cure for cancer, so does that mean that mainstream medicine is also a waste of money and a scam? I wasted $50 bucks on Hulda’s dream but then I have wasted more with incompetent Doctors in the past. Stop treating people as idiots. No one here supports what you are insinuating. Regards, Rod << They sell a video on how it works. Pickpocketing 101. What’s the difference between this and taking money from pharmaceutical and chemical companies?  Or taking a trip on them too? It is not a person’s life savings. That makes a BIG difference. Or in the case of those Redding, CA doctors doing surgeries that were unneccessary? Agreed. Those doctors should be criminally prosecuted, and should meet Hulda in court every day.

Response:

<< …Hulda is a quack and her treatments are based on a delusional fairy tale view of how the world works.  Modern pharmaceuticals, medical approaches to disease and surgical interventions are based on reproducible scientific inquiry.         Tell me in your own words, Lowry, what personal experience you have had with Hulda’s Zapper, and how much money you are personally out over it?         I have never even seen one…. "If you’re gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

Response:

<< That’s why real doctors don’t sell stuff directly to their patients…or at least it’s a practice frowned upon mightily by all the MD/DO professional organizations.  Real doctors are prohibited from owning pharmacies or MRIs or any other businesses to which they might refer their own patients.         None of my doctors hand over freebies of any kind. This way they cannot be accused of favoritism towards one brand or another, and most of them refuse to take samples from suppliers. << As to the free samples from drug reps:  that’s how a lot of my patients get the medicine they need.  Many good drugs aren’t covered by Medicare, and without some samples in my closet to give to the patient, the patient would have to settle for a drug that either doesn’t work as well, or simply doesn’t work at all. I think it would be a better practice if drug companies cut their prices by an amount equal to the money they spend on luncheons and free doo-dads, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.  Until that changes, I will gladly accept free samples of drugs to ensure that I have enough on hand to give my un- or under-insured patients.   So, what would happen if all of your patients, Mark, and said we want free samples because we hear that XXXX and XXX are getting free samples from you, what would you do then?  Stop giving them free samples all together to all of your patients, or have to some other explanation for your favoritism? "If you’re gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << That’s why real doctors don’t sell stuff directly to their patients…or at least it’s a practice frowned upon mightily by all the MD/DO professional organizations.  Real doctors are prohibited from owning pharmacies or MRIs or any other businesses to which they might refer their own patients. None of my doctors hand over freebies of any kind. This way they cannot be accused of favoritism towards one brand or another, and most of them refuse to take samples from suppliers. << As to the free samples from drug reps:  that’s how a lot of my patients get the medicine they need.  Many good drugs aren’t covered by Medicare, and without some samples in my closet to give to the patient, the patient would have to settle for a drug that either doesn’t work as well, or simply doesn’t work at all. I think it would be a better practice if drug companies cut their prices by an amount equal to the money they spend on luncheons and free doo-dads, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.  Until that changes, I will gladly accept free samples of drugs to ensure that I have enough on hand to give my un- or under-insured patients. So, what would happen if all of your patients, Mark, and said we want free samples because we hear that XXXX and XXX are getting free samples from you, what would you do then?  Stop giving them free samples all together to all of your patients, or have to some other explanation for your favoritism?

Most people would understand that Mark is giving samples to his uninsured & under-insured patients, like he said in his post.  Ethical people understand the concept of some people being helped because they lack the financial means to pay for everything themselves.  It’s the basis for Medicaid & health insurance programs for uninsured children. Not everybody thinks helping someone with a disadvantage is "favoritism". Maybe those damn parking spaces close to the door at the mall should be re-painted?  After all, why show "favoritism" to anybody just because they have a physical challenge, eh? Michele

Response:

<< That’s why real doctors don’t sell stuff directly to their patients…or at least it’s a practice frowned upon mightily by all the MD/DO professional organizations.  Real doctors are prohibited from owning pharmacies or MRIs or any other businesses to which they might refer their own patients.    None of my doctors hand over freebies of any kind. This way they cannot be accused of favoritism towards one brand or another, and most of them refuse to take samples from suppliers.

Our ped does use the free samples to help people who do not have prescription coverage. AFAIAC, and so is he, that is the only reason to take them.

Response:

At least with CM there is some real hope for treatment. With Hulda henchmen, there is none. Pure quackery. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of the Hulda victims have spent their life savings on her quackery. Sure glad there is nobody who has ever spent their life savings on conventional medicine. Only to be told, we can do nothing, go home and get things in order. http://www.drclark.net/utilities/prod_wind.htm Jan Mark, Who in hell said it was a persons life savings? Do you think that other people do not know what a scam is besides yourself? Dr Terry Polevoy recently stated that there is no cure for cancer, so does that mean that mainstream medicine is also a waste of money and a scam? I wasted $50 bucks on Hulda’s dream but then I have wasted more with incompetent Doctors in the past. Stop treating people as idiots. No one here supports what you are insinuating. Regards, Rod << They sell a video on how it works. Pickpocketing 101. What’s the difference between this and taking money from pharmaceutical and chemical companies?  Or taking a trip on them too? It is not a person’s life savings. That makes a BIG difference. Or in the case of those Redding, CA doctors doing surgeries that were unneccessary? Agreed. Those doctors should be criminally prosecuted, and should meet Hulda in court every day.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        A friend just recently went to a Chiropractor, and came home with about $200.00 worth of nutritional supplements.  I looked at the stuff, and wrote down the supplements, # of mgs, etc., types, etc., and went to my local health food store, and find products that were the same, and came up with a $54.16 price tag.   That’s why real doctors don’t sell stuff directly to their patients…or at least it’s a practice frowned upon mightily by all the MD/DO professional organizations.  Real doctors are prohibited from owning pharmacies or MRIs or any other businesses to which they might refer their own patients.

What a hoot! Feb. 21

Question:

In my industry, the media and genral public are not permitted into the conventions. These is nothing sinister about that. i don’t know what your industry is, although i could hazard a guess (insurance)

Investigations and security consulting…we do work for some insurance comapnies. so i never said that there was anything sinister about the privacy of your conventions.

True, you never said it..but the implication is very apparent. pharmaceutical companies courting physicians in these lavish ways is highly unethical and they obviously know it or they wouldn’t keep such a low profile with these goings on and the general public.

I was at a convention today at a very lavish hotel (I was presenting a case which resulted in multiple indictments of several people for insurance fraud.) There were eight conventions going on. Two were medical, and one of those was sponsored by a pharmaceutical house. I saw the pharmaceutical company giving away such fun enticements as the PDR for PDAs which is a neat little program that allows a doctor to check meds where he goes. Note, they were not giving away the PDAs. This was the most lavish ‘take home’ that I saw. Lots of sticky note, etc… Oh, and they were not hiding who they were. In fact, they had the largest banner, etc. of all the groups. hey, i know….don’t take markP’s word for it…..everyone just go ask your MDs how many parties they’ve been invited to recently or how many ‘gifts’ they’ve received from pharm companies.

Next time we are at a doc’s office, I’ll ask… a couple of folks here seem to want us to ignore this type of blatant bribery–even ethical MDs call it like is–or pass it off as nothing unusual. why?

Because it is being blown out of proportion? It is being hyped up for TV ratings during the Olympics?

Response:

<< hey, i know….don’t take markP’s word for it…..everyone just go ask your MDs how many parties they’ve been invited to recently or how many ‘gifts’ they’ve received from pharm companies. What I find interesting is the coupons that arrive in the mail from drug companies, or the ones that are printed in newspapers or magazines for a prescription drugs, and advising the reader to go ask their doctor about this product, or go tell your doctor you are interested in such a product.  Coupons for money off a prescription drug???  

For many people, it makes a big difference. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now, to me, that is trying to entice someone to go try a product because they are offering you a savings on that particular prescription drug.  I wonder how many doctors have written script for a patient that brings in a coupon for a drug??? Is there some way this is traced back to the doctor, so the drug firms know which doctors are writing script for their "coupon saving" drugs???

Response:

I refer to my experience of the situation.  The article refers to what appear to be extreme cases

Nope. for what they say is a way to educate doctors showed that tactics like lavish  I would like to have more details about the company supposedly offering money to treat patients with a particular drug.

Supposedly?? "But doctors seemed thrilled to have been invited for a weekend in New York City with some seminars along the way, with all expenses paid by ******Pfizer****** on behalf of one of its drugs, Viagra."  I suspect the money was to cover extra evaluation, monitoring and reporting regarding the patients over a period of some years.

LOLOLOL,,,,,,,,,,,,, READ PETER,,,,,,,,,,,GET A GRIP! "He was presented with an estimated $10,000 worth, including an all-expenses-paid trip to a resort in Florida, dinner cruises, hockey game tickets, a ski trip for the family, Omaha steaks, a day at a spa and free computer equipment." This is all for the good of the patient correct? Do you ACTUALLY ever read the websites??? "It changes your prescribing behavior. You just sort of get caught up in it," said Mueller, who said he was offered a cash payment of $2,000 for putting four patients on the latest drug for high cholesterol. The company called this a clinical study; Mueller called it a bounty. "I’ve never been offered money before," he said. "I don’t remember that 10, 15 years ago." Though Mueller normally declines the offers, he agreed to attend a dinner, which Primetime secretly taped. Not only were the doctors wined and dined, but each was also offered a payment of $150 for just showing up to listen to a pitch for a new asthma treatment for children. The company called it "an honorarium," but Mueller saw it differently. "Again, it’s bribery," he said. "This is very effective marketing." There’s a wide range in value of the free gifts offered to doctors

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Honestly, does anyone know if doctors are constantly misdiagnosing babies/toddlers with Asthma?  I mean, personally, I know of two babies that were both diagnosed with Asthma and after this treatment, that treatment, months and months of work, and nothing helps, it turned out to be something else.  And I find myself hearing more and more about babies with Asthma. Is this a misdiagnosis on the doctors part?  Or is it common for babies/toddlers to have Asthma but outgrow it? asthma can be outgrown. it’s a sort of allergic reaction in some cases. i think more kids are diagnosed with asthma because it’s easier to test for now, plus it’s more common due to additives in foods & cities planting male trees (more pollen)  breastfed babies & babies brought up with cats are less  likely to have asthma or allergies… lee Really?  On the cat thing?  Do you know why they say that?

 i heard a bit on NPR about it (is it just NHPR that’s gone to an all talk format? i hate the new programming)… of course i couldn’t find anything on NPRs site about it, so i had to do some digging: http://hsc.virginia.edu/news/Archives00/cats-asthma.html  since i have 8 cats i find this interesting… i also have one cat that seems to have developed asthma in response to the baby! he’s started wheezing since i brought the baby home & it’s definately asthma. (this is the 3rd asthmatic cat i’ve owned. Tabitha was allergic to cigarette smoke & Rainbow had pollen allergies) lee —

Question:

I’m hoping that someone who reads this will be able to help me.

Question:

I just about lost my daughter to an asthma attack. I know how you felt when your daughter had this happen.  Sometimes her peaks flows may be normal and she can go into an asthma attack in a second flat. I’m thankful her doctors listens to me when I say she needs to be hospitalized. He is very cautious with her and takes no chances. I panic when she coughs. How do you know if it’s a normal cough or starting of an asthma flare up. I’m glad your daughter pulled through. I think God every day for my daughter making it.

Response:

test

Why did you include 93 lines of quoted text for a test message? "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off."    General Colin Powell

Response:

Thanks for posting your story.  Two years ago, my best friend in high school died because of asthma.  He had been having trouble all day and didn’t think of getting any help.  Neither did I.  I just figured a hot shower or some rest or just staying indoors on that smoggy day would make it better.  And the guilt that was there was very heavy that I was ignorant.  I anguished over it forever, and I can only imagine how his mom felt, having called an ambulance only when it was too late. Though I have asthma, I was lucky to never have a crisis situation myself.  The idea that you can die from it is very foreign.  To this day, I wish I had known to intervene.  But I didn’t, and nor did his parents, teachers, or anyone else. People have to know that asthma needs to be taken seriously.  It wasn’t until that happened that I realized that I absolutely have to get my asthma under control… even though mine is mild in comparison. Knox

Response:

test

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s some 3 months now since this happened so I am able to look back without hysteria and share with others the lessons which arise and which must be learned if others are to avoid what nearly happened to me.  The awful truth is that being a mild asthmatic myself, nearly caused me to wait until it was too late to save the life of my 10 year old daughter, Zoe! She had been diagnosed a mild asthmatic about 2 years ago but was in the period of trying a new preventer as the old one had ceased to be effective. In the lead up to the incident she had had a bout of sore throats and a mild chest infection and was generally rather more wheezy- we had almost got used to her wheeziness. Things took a turn for the worse one morning when she seemed a bit more wheezy and as it was a holiday there was no need to rush to get ready for school. Her mum went off to work in the car and was due back at noon.  I was with Zoe all morning and she remained a bit too wheezy taking the odd puff of Ventolin which gave no relief and resorted to a couple of puffs of my own Serevent which we had used once about 12 months before to bring back a very wheezy position. This too failed to help (normally works inside 10 mins. I know messing about with drugs which have not been prescribed is frowned upon but in an emergency you grab at anything. Once many years ago when my mother had a bee sting for the first time in her life and went into analcyleptic shock, my father resorted to using an injection of adrenalin which was his emergency asthma treatment! It saved her life.). At 11.20am she seemed to be getting wheezier and if I had had access to our car I would have taken her to the local hospital and told Zoe that when her mum got back we would go there and that she should try to hold on until then. However at 11.40am she deteriorated rapidly and instead of fighting for breath she began to give up. When she said "Dad I think I’m dying, please call for the ambulance" I picked up the phone. The 8 mins or so it took for the paramedics to arrive were the longest in my life. Zoe started to sweat a lot and her lips turned bluish. I held her and tried to keep talking. At one point she said "Goodbye Dad, I love you"   Just after that her eyes closed and had rotated upwards. I gave her mouth-to-mouth but she seemed to fight it and tried to bite me! Luckily just after that the ambulance arrived and she soon was fitted with a nebulizer and oxygen and was taken to hospital where she was seen by a pediatrician whose notes talk of her state as "black". It took about 3 hours for her to stabilize. Luckily she made a full recovery and is now on an effective preventer called Flixotide. We now all take the business of 2X daily peakflow readings alot more seriously. In describing what happened to the medics it became clear to me that it was my "little knowledge" of child asthma that had stopped me calling the ambulance earlier. Several times in the last 2 years I had found myself having to go to the hospital for nebulizing but in each case I drove myself and was in no danger. As the medic explained -a 10 yr old child  has much narrower airways. If their airways narrow by only one mm (approx one twentfifth of an inch) it represents a much greater % restriction of their airflow than with an adult. When I think of how close she came to death I break out in a sweat- the more because I would never have forgiven myself. It would have been  bitterly ironical if she had died through my erroneously applying knowledge through being as asthmatic. (In the UK there are, I think, approx 10 fatalities per year in children from asthma). My sweat is not diminished when her mum admits that placed in the same situation she probably would have delayed making the call (she hates the thought of calling 999 and have the neighbours see an ambulance arrive!) and would have hoped that I would have returned on time i.e. that I could then have decided what to do! Summarizing the lessons learned: 1. Never get into a mindset which allows you to believe that there is an acceptable level of wheeziness in a child day in day out.( This was the case 40 years ago when I was a child. "You will have to learn to live with the condition" I was told and that is what I did!) Treat such a condition as potentially serious- there is a wide range of preventers and it should be possible to find a regime which works. 2. Treat the peakflow meter as an important instrument. It may not be very accurate but it sure can tell you (ahead of real trouble) when there’s a downward trend which needs referral. 3. Don’t leave it to the last minute before calling 999. If the child’s emergency inhaler doesn’t seem to be working then that is the time to call for help (or drive him/her to hospital). The speed of the decline in breathing ability of Zoe in the minutes before the paramedics arrived  was literally breathtaking!

Response:

Thank goodness Zoe was fine after all!  We all learn from mistakes.  I myself have done so too.  Waiting too long, not calling the ambulance, driving child to a hospital further away….luckily he too made it. BUT….it burned into our brains the absolute importance of everything about his asthma. Sal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s some 3 months now since this happened so I am able to look back without hysteria and share with others the lessons which arise and which must be learned if others are to avoid what nearly happened to me.  The awful truth is that being a mild asthmatic myself, nearly caused me to wait until it was too late to save the life of my 10 year old daughter, Zoe! She had been diagnosed a mild asthmatic about 2 years ago but was in the period of trying a new preventer as the old one had ceased to be effective. In the lead up to the incident she had had a bout of sore throats and a mild chest infection and was generally rather more wheezy- we had almost got used to her wheeziness. Things took a turn for the worse one morning when she seemed a bit more wheezy and as it was a holiday there was no need to rush to get ready for school. Her mum went off to work in the car and was due back at noon.  I was with Zoe all morning and she remained a bit too wheezy taking the odd puff of Ventolin which gave no relief and resorted to a couple of puffs of my own Serevent which we had used once about 12 months before to bring back a very wheezy position. This too failed to help (normally works inside 10 mins. I know messing about with drugs which have not been prescribed is frowned upon but in an emergency you grab at anything. Once many years ago when my mother had a bee sting for the first time in her life and went into analcyleptic shock, my father resorted to using an injection of adrenalin which was his emergency asthma treatment! It saved her life.). At 11.20am she seemed to be getting wheezier and if I had had access to our car I would have taken her to the local hospital and told Zoe that when her mum got back we would go there and that she should try to hold on until then. However at 11.40am she deteriorated rapidly and instead of fighting for breath she began to give up. When she said "Dad I think I’m dying, please call for the ambulance" I picked up the phone. The 8 mins or so it took for the paramedics to arrive were the longest in my life. Zoe started to sweat a lot and her lips turned bluish. I held her and tried to keep talking. At one point she said "Goodbye Dad, I love you"   Just after that her eyes closed and had rotated upwards. I gave her mouth-to-mouth but she seemed to fight it and tried to bite me! Luckily just after that the ambulance arrived and she soon was fitted with a nebulizer and oxygen and was taken to hospital where she was seen by a pediatrician whose notes talk of her state as "black". It took about 3 hours for her to stabilize. Luckily she made a full recovery and is now on an effective preventer called Flixotide. We now all take the business of 2X daily peakflow readings alot more seriously. In describing what happened to the medics it became clear to me that it was my "little knowledge" of child asthma that had stopped me calling the ambulance earlier. Several times in the last 2 years I had found myself having to go to the hospital for nebulizing but in each case I drove myself and was in no danger. As the medic explained -a 10 yr old child  has much narrower airways. If their airways narrow by only one mm (approx one twentfifth of an inch) it represents a much greater % restriction of their airflow than with an adult. When I think of how close she came to death I break out in a sweat- the more because I would never have forgiven myself. It would have been  bitterly ironical if she had died through my erroneously applying knowledge through being as asthmatic. (In the UK there are, I think, approx 10 fatalities per year in children from asthma). My sweat is not diminished when her mum admits that placed in the same situation she probably would have delayed making the call (she hates the thought of calling 999 and have the neighbours see an ambulance arrive!) and would have hoped that I would have returned on time i.e. that I could then have decided what to do! Summarizing the lessons learned: 1. Never get into a mindset which allows you to believe that there is an acceptable level of wheeziness in a child day in day out.( This was the case 40 years ago when I was a child. "You will have to learn to live with the condition" I was told and that is what I did!) Treat such a condition as potentially serious- there is a wide range of preventers and it should be possible to find a regime which works. 2. Treat the peakflow meter as an important instrument. It may not be very accurate but it sure can tell you (ahead of real trouble) when there’s a downward trend which needs referral. 3. Don’t leave it to the last minute before calling 999. If the child’s emergency inhaler doesn’t seem to be working then that is the time to call for help (or drive him/her to hospital). The speed of the decline in breathing ability of Zoe in the minutes before the paramedics arrived  was literally breathtaking!

Response:

Mike, Thank you for sharing this story about your daughter.  It brought tears to my eyes because my son is an asthmatic and we have been in a situation similar to yours.  I am very glad that your daughter is fine now! Take care, Linda R.

Response:

It’s some 3 months now since this happened so I am able to look back without hysteria and share with others the lessons which arise and which must be learned if others are to avoid what nearly happened to me.  The awful truth is that being a mild asthmatic myself, nearly caused me to wait until it was too late to save the life of my 10 year old daughter, Zoe! She had been diagnosed a mild asthmatic about 2 years ago but was in the period of trying a new preventer as the old one had ceased to be effective. In the lead up to the incident she had had a bout of sore throats and a mild chest infection and was generally rather more wheezy- we had almost got used to her wheeziness. Things took a turn for the worse one morning when she seemed a bit more wheezy and as it was a holiday there was no need to rush to get ready for school. Her mum went off to work in the car and was due back at noon.  I was with Zoe all morning and she remained a bit too wheezy taking the odd puff of Ventolin which gave no relief and resorted to a couple of puffs of my own Serevent which we had used once about 12 months before to bring back a very wheezy position. This too failed to help (normally works inside 10 mins. I know messing about with drugs which have not been prescribed is frowned upon but in an emergency you grab at anything. Once many years ago when my mother had a bee sting for the first time in her life and went into analcyleptic shock, my father resorted to using an injection of adrenalin which was his emergency asthma treatment! It saved her life.). At 11.20am she seemed to be getting wheezier and if I had had access to our car I would have taken her to the local hospital and told Zoe that when her mum got back we would go there and that she should try to hold on until then. However at 11.40am she deteriorated rapidly and instead of fighting for breath she began to give up. When she said "Dad I think I’m dying, please call for the ambulance" I picked up the phone. The 8 mins or so it took for the paramedics to arrive were the longest in my life. Zoe started to sweat a lot and her lips turned bluish. I held her and tried to keep talking. At one point she said "Goodbye Dad, I love you"   Just after that her eyes closed and had rotated upwards. I gave her mouth-to-mouth but she seemed to fight it and tried to bite me! Luckily just after that the ambulance arrived and she soon was fitted with a nebulizer and oxygen and was taken to hospital where she was seen by a pediatrician whose notes talk of her state as "black". It took about 3 hours for her to stabilize. Luckily she made a full recovery and is now on an effective preventer called Flixotide. We now all take the business of 2X daily peakflow readings alot more seriously. In describing what happened to the medics it became clear to me that it was my "little knowledge" of child asthma that had stopped me calling the ambulance earlier. Several times in the last 2 years I had found myself having to go to the hospital for nebulizing but in each case I drove myself and was in no danger. As the medic explained -a 10 yr old child  has much narrower airways. If their airways narrow by only one mm (approx one twentfifth of an inch) it represents a much greater % restriction of their airflow than with an adult. When I think of how close she came to death I break out in a sweat- the more because I would never have forgiven myself. It would have been  bitterly ironical if she had died through my erroneously applying knowledge through being as asthmatic. (In the UK there are, I think, approx 10 fatalities per year in children from asthma). My sweat is not diminished when her mum admits that placed in the same situation she probably would have delayed making the call (she hates the thought of calling 999 and have the neighbours see an ambulance arrive!) and would have hoped that I would have returned on time i.e. that I could then have decided what to do! Summarizing the lessons learned: 1. Never get into a mindset which allows you to believe that there is an acceptable level of wheeziness in a child day in day out.( This was the case 40 years ago when I was a child. "You will have to learn to live with the condition" I was told and that is what I did!) Treat such a condition as potentially serious- there is a wide range of preventers and it should be possible to find a regime which works. 2. Treat the peakflow meter as an important instrument. It may not be very accurate but it sure can tell you (ahead of real trouble) when there’s a downward trend which needs referral. 3. Don’t leave it to the last minute before calling 999. If the child’s emergency inhaler doesn’t seem to be working then that is the time to call for help (or drive him/her to hospital). The speed of the decline in breathing ability of Zoe in the minutes before the paramedics arrived  was literally breathtaking!

Response:

Question:

(referring to Chinese ephedra)

Please explain what place it has in asthma treatment that is not filled by a product that is not only more effective but more safe? (This is an asthma newsgroup, so I do focus on its fraudulent marketing as an asthma remedy.) Practitioners of Chinese medicine have a place for Ephedra sinica, in combination with other herbs, for some asthmatic patients.  Chinese medicine is holistic, directed toward the whole person rather than isolated symptoms, and people with the same named disease do not all get the same regimen.  Evidently Chinese ephedra is good for some people. There have been posts in this newsgroup from people who suffered adverse reactions to some pharmaceutical asthma medications, so the notion that such medications are safer and more effective than Chinese ephedra is not applicable in such cases.  Also, there have been adverse events to synthetic ephedrine, for which the herb is not responsible. Herbal remedies sold in the U.S.A., asthma-related or otherwise, typically bear a disclaimer like "These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.  This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease."  So even if the product is a total turkey, the manufacturers can’t be accused of fraud (?) Regarding this being an asthma newsgroup, this is the only newsgroup that showed when I searched for "asthma" the 1.6 MB file listing all news.bluegrass.net newsgroups.

Response:

For example:  With the introduction of safer and more effective medications, there is absolutely no valid reason for the continued use of ephedra.

Come again?  Practitioners of Chinese medicine use Ephedra sinica on some asthma patients, in combination with other herbs, not as a blanket remedy for all asthma.  Too many people in the U.S.A., including health food store personnel, equate herbal treatment for asthma with Ephedra sinica.  I formerly used Ephedra sinica on an irregular basis, last time being in March 1997: certainly not the be-all and end-all of herbal treatment for asthma. In addition to Chinese ephedra, milder species of ephedra grow in the Desert Southwest U.S.A., which have little or no ephedrine: safe, but not a bronchodilator or asthma-specific treatment.  Some people use U.S. ephedra for a pleasant beverage. (Remove -nospam from email address)

Response:

For example:  With the introduction of safer and more effective medications, there is absolutely no valid reason for the continued use of ephedra. Come again?  Practitioners of Chinese medicine use Ephedra sinica on some asthma patients, in combination with other herbs, not as a blanket remedy for all asthma.  Too many people in the U.S.A., including health food store personnel, equate herbal treatment for asthma with Ephedra sinica.  I formerly used Ephedra sinica on an irregular basis, last time being in March 1997: certainly not the be-all and end-all of herbal treatment for asthma.

Please explain what place it has in asthma treatment that is not filled by a product that is not only more effective but more safe? (This is an asthma newsgroup, so I do focus on its fraudulent marketing as an asthma remedy.) It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over 90% of drugs come from herbs. It is importaint to know what drug is in what herb. Poppies (particularly opiate poppy) contain opeum from which codien, morphen, and heroin are derived. Mints (particularly peperment) contain menthal Willow bark contains ascilic acid from which asprin is derived (raw, unbuffered ascilic acid is indigestable causeing instant or near instant vomiting. willow bark contains natural buffers) catnip and chamamil contain natural tranquilizers. ma huang (chines ephadrea) contains ephadrin fox glove (digatalis) contains a drug by the same name (digatalis) that whin diluted is used as heart medicin. Shamin ect are not quacks – except to people so sure of there suposed cultural superiority that they refuse to even wait to determan if the remady works, and then to analize why. It took decades befor docters and pharmachalogist took willow bark seriousely. It was to them quak medicin used by ignorant savages. Its a good thing they eventualy droped the atitude, at lest for thoughs who can use asprin. And you notice that just about all of these have been superseded by safer and more effective medicines? For example:  With the introduction of safer and more effective medications, there is absolutely no valid reason for the continued use of ephedra. These things may have been useful back in the days of folklore medicine – but have no real place today. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Ephedra tasts absolutly nasty and as I experiance the same effects from psudo ephidrine I just swallow a sudafed if I need to. However, Peperment tasts nice and peperment tea is easer to drink then a menthol cough drop. See, I use common sence whin choseing between an herbal vs outher over the counter remidy. Elf-Kin

Response:

Principles of homeopathy are used in conventional medicine….in vaccines and allergy shots…unless you want to call vaccines and allergy shots witchdoctoring. ..diane No, homeopathy uses some of the principles involved the science of vaccination and allergy shots but takes them totally out of context and distorts them to the point that they are meaningless.

No. Homeopathic principles were developed *before* vaccines and allergy shots. So those conventional treatments used the homeopathic principles, not vice versa.  Homeopathic drugs have no active ingredient. This is very different from vaccines and allergy shots

How do you know they have no ‘active ingredient’ or mechanism of action? You are either ignorant of what you write or a liar, I supect the latter.

More personal attacks and more evidence that you have nothing worthwhile to say. ..diane

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over 90% of drugs come from herbs. It is importaint to know what drug is in what herb. Poppies (particularly opiate poppy) contain opeum from which codien, morphen, and heroin are derived. Mints (particularly peperment) contain menthal Willow bark contains ascilic acid from which asprin is derived (raw, unbuffered ascilic acid is indigestable causeing instant or near instant vomiting. willow bark contains natural buffers) catnip and chamamil contain natural tranquilizers. ma huang (chines ephadrea) contains ephadrin fox glove (digatalis) contains a drug by the same name (digatalis) that whin diluted is used as heart medicin. Shamin ect are not quacks – except to people so sure of there suposed cultural superiority that they refuse to even wait to determan if the remady works, and then to analize why. It took decades befor docters and pharmachalogist took willow bark seriousely. It was to them quak medicin used by ignorant savages. Its a good thing they eventualy droped the atitude, at lest for thoughs who can use asprin.

And you notice that just about all of these have been superseded by safer and more effective medicines? For example:  With the introduction of safer and more effective medications, there is absolutely no valid reason for the continued use of ephedra. These things may have been useful back in the days of folklore medicine – but have no real place today. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

Aloha All, In 1938, approximately, when I was 5 or 6, the only asthma treatment the family knew about was a combination of herbs made by the Schiffman company. The powder was burned and inhaled into the lungs.  Sure reamed them out and by the time I could breathe, I was so wired that I could not sleep.  Same with marax later on in the 1950s. Thanks for sharing, Edmund

Response:

catnip and chamamil contain natural tranquilizers. There is *no way* catnip tranquillises affected cats!  Some cats inherit an ‘interest’ in catnip and go mad for it.  The others are totally uninterested.  In effect they take a trip.

Its a little known fact that drugs oftain effect cats and dogs difrintly then humans. Most over the counter pain killers have a high lethality for pets. Cats and dogs have difrint sensitivities to anastethea as well ( I was realy anoyed by an ER eposode were a docter/sergin with no background in canin anatamy and medicin decided to remove a tumer from his dog. In the show the dog lived, in reality it probly wouldnt have awakened after the sergery at all) BTW, It does tranquilize them after they have eatin it, they just go nuts to get it. You should watch beyoun them trying to get at a drug that they are prone to developing an addiction to. People addicted to tranquilizers tend to "go nuts" to get them and dont react as strongly to them as everyone else. Elf-Kin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I only wish I had known about homeopathic treatments then. Then? "Homopathy" has existed in one form or another since time immemorial… over the millennia far more people have been killed by so called "Homopathy" and it’s ilk than have been cured.  "Homopathy" is merely a freshly coined euphemism for ‘witch doctoring’.  "Homopathy" is not even a legitimate word. witch doctor (noun) First appeared <U1718</U : a professional worker of magic usu. in a primitive society who often works to cure sickness —— medicine man (noun) First appeared <U1801</U : a priestly healer or sorcerer esp. among the American Indians : SHAMAN —— homopathic practitioner (noun) First appeared 19?? : a witch doctor —— Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out." Over 90% of drugs come from herbs. It is importaint to know what drug is in what herb. Poppies (particularly opiate poppy) contain opeum from which codien, morphen, and heroin are derived. Mints (particularly peperment) contain menthal Willow bark contains ascilic acid from which asprin is derived (raw, unbuffered ascilic acid is indigestable causeing instant or near instant vomiting. willow bark contains natural buffers) catnip and chamamil contain natural tranquilizers.

There is *no way* catnip tranquillises affected cats!  Some cats inherit an ‘interest’ in catnip and go mad for it.  The others are totally uninterested.  In effect they take a trip. ma huang (chines ephadrea) contains ephadrin fox glove (digatalis) contains a drug by the same name (digatalis) that whin diluted is used as heart medicin. Shamin ect are not quacks – except to people so sure of there suposed cultural superiority that they refuse to even wait to determan if the remady works, and then to analize why. It took decades befor docters and pharmachalogist took willow bark seriousely. It was to them quak medicin used by ignorant savages. Its a good thing they eventualy droped the atitude, at lest for thoughs who can use asprin. Elf-Kin

– Surfer!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. I’m 46. I hope that’s close enough. I’ve had asthma since infancy. My parents tell me that when I had asthma as an infant, they’d rush me to the hospital and I would be given a shot of epinephrine. As I child, I remember having one long asthma attack all winter, every winter. My parents took me to doctors, but they did nothing for me. My parents tried cough medicine because I was coughing with my asthma, but that didn’t help much. In desperation, they took me to what today would be called an "alternate practitioner" who did me no good and whose "treatments" were painful and very scary for a child. Finally, when I was about eight years old, they took me to an allergy specialist, who gave me Tedral. This gave my asthma satisfactory control for quite some time. I was never given Prednisone until the 1980s (and that produced catastrophic results–I’ve never been able to tolerate steroids in any form, pill or inhaled). until finally one reputable MD discussed my symptoms  with me and concluded that I was overmedicated.  He was right. I agree that a lot of asthmatics appear to be overmedicated, and I believe Colin (who posted earlier) provided an explanation. I went through much of the same, except that no "magic bullet" was ever found.  I think allergy shots helped a fair amount, but mostly I just outgrew the problems. I only ended up in the hospital twice, once as an infant and once when I was maybe 10.  But for the first 12 years or so I would get "adrenalin" (presumably epinephrine) shots at the doctor’s office about every other month when a cold flared up.  I was constantly on some drug or another, often two or three at a time. I strongly suspect that if more attention had been paid to my nasal congestion then I would have had far fewer problems.  I was rarely able to breathe through my nose, and the combination of post-nasal drip, unfiltered air (due to mouth breathing), and frequent head colds no doubt caused a lot of other problems.  But back then no one paid any attention to a runny nose in a kid.

Yay, post nasil drip and asthma dont mix. Hay fever and asthma dont mix cold/flue with asthma is a bad mix My sinuises drain back not forward. right into my lungs. I tend to develop bronckituse regularly, oftain that turns into pnumona. dont bother to go to the docter for it. Caugh meds that have exfolients in them triger lung heaves in me (strong diaphramic contractions that force gunk from the lungs) hint Red beverages are not a good idea under such cercumstances as the diapham tend to force the stumic to empty as well. I usualy dont know whin I have a miner bloody nose unless I blow my nose. Elf-Kin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. Surely there were people with restricted airways and breathing problems then.  It just seems that everybody is so quick to rush to the doctor to get a diagnosis, to find a name for what they are experiencing.  It’s not especially suprising that the rise asthma is directly correlated to a rise in fancy new medicinces and steroidal inhalers to remedy the affliction.  But is it actually the increase in cases that propelled the birth of these new treatments, or has the latter perpetuated a rise in the incidences of asthma?  There is no doubt in my mind that asthma is, indeed, a real problem.  I have suffered gravely from it.  But when doctors hand out prescriptions for albuterol like it’s candy, there’s something wrong.  I’m addressing this because I was on a fistful of medicines that did absolutely nothing for my complaints–medications like prednisone which may have longterm side effects– until finally one reputable MD discussed my symptoms  with me and concluded that I was overmedicated.  He was right.  I just hope that everyone out there who is on six different medications takes the times to ask themselves "Is this really working for me."  At least in my case, that was the clincher to solving my problems. I am just over fifty and I can tell you it was terrible on  the parents of kids with asthma fifty years ago. They saw us suffering and frequently had to rush us to the hospital. Families were told to move to Arizona or separate sick members by moving them.  Oxygen tents, antibodics and experimental medicines were the order of treatment. Years of allergy de-senstization shots- that rarely worked was in order. Teachers and classmates never knew what to expect. Absences from school slowed learning especially reading. PE was limited if offered. Scouting, camping, hiking, and out door activities were risky. But everybody tried and many of us servived. I only wish I had known about homeopathic treatments then.  I have been syptom free for the last five years. No more inhalers, no more antihestamines and no more over priced allergy shots! — Denis Sapiro www.rexall.com/denisandkarl

wasnt much difrint 20-30 years ago. It seems to me that most of the realy effective meds were developed (or put into use) in the 80s. Whin I was little (i’m 27) asthma medication came in one class Amphetamen type, which my docter was unwilling to prescribe except in emurgancies (he had me learn yoga exercises to help manage the problem). I stayed inside whin the polin count wint over 200 (was suposed to be 300 but do to a fat psycho gym teacher who didnt beleave in asthma making me run laps the entire gym class after receveing the please excuse note (got sent home) it was lowered by the school, recess was after gym, they blamed the polin), temp wint below 50 degress ferinhight, humidity over 75 %. Whin I did get out I wasnt alowed to play anything that involved running and jumping at school. Ohhh, what fun I had. They wouldnt even let me play kick ball (I’m crosseyed, only game were the ball didnt seem to disapear on me, watch the ball my asp) Elf-Kin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I only wish I had known about homeopathic treatments then. Then? "Homopathy" has existed in one form or another since time immemorial… over the millennia far more people have been killed by so called "Homopathy" and it’s ilk than have been cured.  "Homopathy" is merely a freshly coined euphemism for ‘witch doctoring’.  "Homopathy" is not even a legitimate word. witch doctor (noun) First appeared <U1718</U : a professional worker of magic usu. in a primitive society who often works to cure sickness —— medicine man (noun) First appeared <U1801</U : a priestly healer or sorcerer esp. among the American Indians : SHAMAN —— homopathic practitioner (noun) First appeared 19?? : a witch doctor —— Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Over 90% of drugs come from herbs. It is importaint to know what drug is in what herb. Poppies (particularly opiate poppy) contain opeum from which codien, morphen, and heroin are derived. Mints (particularly peperment) contain menthal Willow bark contains ascilic acid from which asprin is derived (raw, unbuffered ascilic acid is indigestable causeing instant or near instant vomiting. willow bark contains natural buffers) catnip and chamamil contain natural tranquilizers. ma huang (chines ephadrea) contains ephadrin fox glove (digatalis) contains a drug by the same name (digatalis) that whin diluted is used as heart medicin. Shamin ect are not quacks – except to people so sure of there suposed cultural superiority that they refuse to even wait to determan if the remady works, and then to analize why. It took decades befor docters and pharmachalogist took willow bark seriousely. It was to them quak medicin used by ignorant savages. Its a good thing they eventualy droped the atitude, at lest for thoughs who can use asprin. Elf-Kin

Response:

I only wish I had known about homeopathic treatments then. Then? "Homopathy" has existed in one form or another since time immemorial…

Really? In what form did it exist 150 yrs ago?  over the millennia far more people have been killed by so called "Homopathy" and it’s ilk than have been cured.

The evidence to support this claim is what?  "Homopathy" is merely a freshly coined euphemism for ‘witch doctoring’.  "Homopathy" is not even a legitimate

word. Homopathy is not a word, but homeopathy is. It is not ‘freshly coined’ nor is it a euphemism for witch doctoring. Principles of homeopathy are used in conventional medicine….in vaccines and allergy shots…unless you want to call vaccines and allergy shots witchdoctoring. ..diane

Response:

I too feel the way you do about over medicating, then cut back.  However, I am presently a patient at National Jewish Hospital and they take the oppisite opinion.  With most of the patients I have spoke with (all asthmatics) all medication or most was stopped then added back if needed.  General opinion at the hispital is most doctors tend to over medicate. They definetaly have a different way of looking at asthma.  This has truly been an experience.  Sorry for the spelling errors.  I haven’t figured out spell check on AOL yet.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. Before effective asthma treatment people either died or suffered for their entire lives.  Before the effective treatments a case of the flu was a life threatening illness if you had asthma. Just as now, most children outgrew asthma back then.  Flu was more dangerous to everyone back then. There is serious doubt about ‘outgrowing’ asthma.  It is more accurate to say that the disease can go into remission. I ‘outgrew’ my childhood asthma at about age 12.  At age 35 it returned with a vengeance.

"Up to 10 percent of children have asthma, being twice as common in boys as girls.  About half of the cases develop before age 10; another third develop by age 40.  Some children outgrow it because no more that 3 to 5 percent of the adult population have it." — Mayo Clinic Family Health Book

Response:

I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. Before effective asthma treatment people either died or suffered for their entire lives.  Before the effective treatments a case of the flu was a life threatening illness if you had asthma.

Just as now, most children outgrew asthma back then.  Flu was more dangerous to everyone back then.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. I’m 46. I hope that’s close enough. I’ve had asthma since infancy. My parents tell me that when I had asthma as an infant, they’d rush me to the hospital and I would be given a shot of epinephrine. As I child, I remember having one long asthma attack all winter, every winter. My parents took me to doctors, but they did nothing for me. My parents tried cough medicine because I was coughing with my asthma, but that didn’t help much. In desperation, they took me to what today would be called an "alternate practitioner" who did me no good and whose "treatments" were painful and very scary for a child. Finally, when I was about eight years old, they took me to an allergy specialist, who gave me Tedral. This gave my asthma satisfactory control for quite some time. I was never given Prednisone until the 1980s (and that produced catastrophic results–I’ve never been able to tolerate steroids in any form, pill or inhaled). until finally one reputable MD discussed my symptoms  with me and concluded that I was overmedicated.  He was right. I agree that a lot of asthmatics appear to be overmedicated, and I believe Colin (who posted earlier) provided an explanation.

I went through much of the same, except that no "magic bullet" was ever found.  I think allergy shots helped a fair amount, but mostly I just outgrew the problems. I only ended up in the hospital twice, once as an infant and once when I was maybe 10.  But for the first 12 years or so I would get "adrenalin" (presumably epinephrine) shots at the doctor’s office about every other month when a cold flared up.  I was constantly on some drug or another, often two or three at a time. I strongly suspect that if more attention had been paid to my nasal congestion then I would have had far fewer problems.  I was rarely able to breathe through my nose, and the combination of post-nasal drip, unfiltered air (due to mouth breathing), and frequent head colds no doubt caused a lot of other problems.  But back then no one paid any attention to a runny nose in a kid.

Response:

"Up to 10 percent of children have asthma, being twice as common in boys as girls.  About half of the cases develop before age 10; another third develop by age 40.  Some children outgrow it because no more that 3 to 5 percent of the adult population have it." — Mayo Clinic Family Health Book

Do not be so confident in these numbers.  Remember that 20 years ago 10% of children (IMO this is a questionable percentage) were not diagnosed with asthma. If (as some people think) asthma is increasing in frequency, the numbers will show up first in children. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

I only wish I had known about homeopathic treatments then.

Then? "Homopathy" has existed in one form or another since time immemorial… over the millennia far more people have been killed by so called "Homopathy" and it’s ilk than have been cured.  "Homopathy" is merely a freshly coined euphemism for ‘witch doctoring’.  "Homopathy" is not even a legitimate word. witch doctor (noun) First appeared <U1718</U  : a professional worker of magic usu. in a primitive society who often works to cure sickness —— medicine man (noun) First appeared <U1801</U  : a priestly healer or sorcerer esp. among the American Indians : SHAMAN —— homopathic practitioner (noun) First appeared 19??  : a witch doctor —— Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. Before effective asthma treatment people either died or suffered for their entire lives.  Before the effective treatments a case of the flu was a life threatening illness if you had asthma. Just as now, most children outgrew asthma back then.  Flu was more dangerous to everyone back then.

There is serious doubt about ‘outgrowing’ asthma.  It is more accurate to say that the disease can go into remission. I ‘outgrew’ my childhood asthma at about age 12.  At age 35 it returned with a vengeance. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. Surely there were people with restricted airways and breathing problems then.  It just seems that everybody is so quick to rush to the doctor to get a diagnosis, to find a name for what they are experiencing.  It’s not especially suprising that the rise asthma is directly correlated to a rise in fancy new medicinces and steroidal inhalers to remedy the affliction.  But is it actually the increase in cases that propelled the birth of these new treatments, or has the latter perpetuated a rise in the incidences of asthma?  There is no doubt in my mind that asthma is, indeed, a real problem.  I have suffered gravely from it.  But when doctors hand out prescriptions for albuterol like it’s candy, there’s something wrong.  I’m addressing this because I was on a fistful of medicines that did absolutely nothing for my complaints–medications like prednisone which may have longterm side effects– until finally one reputable MD discussed my symptoms  with me and concluded that I was overmedicated.  He was right.  I just hope that everyone out there who is on six different medications takes the times to ask themselves "Is this really working for me."  At least in my case, that was the clincher to solving my problems.

I am just over fifty and I can tell you it was terrible on  the parents of kids with asthma fifty years ago. They saw us suffering and frequently had to rush us to the hospital. Families were told to move to Arizona or separate sick members by moving them.  Oxygen tents, antibodics and experimental medicines were the order of treatment. Years of allergy de-senstization shots- that rarely worked was in order. Teachers and classmates never knew what to expect. Absences from school slowed learning especially reading. PE was limited if offered. Scouting, camping, hiking, and out door activities were risky. But everybody tried and many of us servived. I only wish I had known about homeopathic treatments then.  I have been syptom free for the last five years. No more inhalers, no more antihestamines and no more over priced allergy shots! — Denis Sapiro www.rexall.com/denisandkarl

Response:

I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. Before effective asthma treatment people either died or suffered for their entire lives.  Before the effective treatments a case of the flu was a life threatening illness if you had asthma.

Fifty years ago there were treatments for asthma not as safe and effective as to day. I think predizone was available 50 years ago and it is effective. — Gordon    W5RED www.couger.com/gcouger "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take."   – Wayne Gretzky

Response:

I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago.

I’m 46. I hope that’s close enough. I’ve had asthma since infancy. My parents tell me that when I had asthma as an infant, they’d rush me to the hospital and I would be given a shot of epinephrine. As I child, I remember having one long asthma attack all winter, every winter. My parents took me to doctors, but they did nothing for me. My parents tried cough medicine because I was coughing with my asthma, but that didn’t help much. In desperation, they took me to what today would be called an "alternate practitioner" who did me no good and whose "treatments" were painful and very scary for a child. Finally, when I was about eight years old, they took me to an allergy specialist, who gave me Tedral. This gave my asthma satisfactory control for quite some time. I was never given Prednisone until the 1980s (and that produced catastrophic results–I’ve never been able to tolerate steroids in any form, pill or inhaled). until finally one reputable MD discussed my symptoms  with me and concluded that I was overmedicated.  He was right.  

I agree that a lot of asthmatics appear to be overmedicated, and I believe Colin (who posted earlier) provided an explanation. Joan

Response:

I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago.

Before effective asthma treatment people either died or suffered for their entire lives.  Before the effective treatments a case of the flu was a life threatening illness if you had asthma. Surely there were people with restricted airways and breathing problems then.

Those who survived childhood. It just seems that everybody is so quick to rush to the doctor to get a diagnosis, to find a name for what they are experiencing.  It’s not especially suprising that the rise asthma is directly correlated to a rise in fancy new medicinces and steroidal inhalers to remedy the affliction.  But is it actually the increase in cases that propelled the birth of these new treatments, or has the latter perpetuated a rise in the incidences of asthma?

It is the incidence of asthma that propels the new treatments.  The more common the disease the faster the pharmaceutical research is paid off and the companies begin turning a profit. There is no doubt in my mind that asthma is, indeed, a real problem.  I have suffered gravely from it.  But when doctors hand out prescriptions for albuterol like it’s candy, there’s something wrong.

Asthma is becoming overdiagnosed.  This seems to be overcompensation for all the years it was underdiagnosed. I’m addressing this because I was on a fistful of medicines that did absolutely nothing for my complaints–medications like prednisone which may have longterm side effects– until finally one reputable MD discussed my symptoms  with me and concluded that I was overmedicated.  He was right.  I just hope that everyone out there who is on six different medications takes the times to ask themselves "Is this really working for me."  At least in my case, that was the clincher to solving my problems.

Current asthma treatment doctrine is to ‘overmedicate’ in order to ensure that the asthma is brought under control.  The medications are slowly reduced until the lowest dosage necessary for good control is achieved.  Then the asthma is monitored and medication dosages are adjusted up or down as the symptoms wax and wane. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

I was thinking about what people who had asthmatic symptoms did fifty years ago. Surely there were people with restricted airways and breathing problems then.  It just seems that everybody is so quick to rush to the doctor to get a diagnosis, to find a name for what they are experiencing.  It’s not especially suprising that the rise asthma is directly correlated to a rise in fancy new medicinces and steroidal inhalers to remedy the affliction.  But is it actually the increase in cases that propelled the birth of these new treatments, or has the latter perpetuated a rise in the incidences of asthma?  There is no doubt in my mind that asthma is, indeed, a real problem.  I have suffered gravely from it.  But when doctors hand out prescriptions for albuterol like it’s candy, there’s something wrong.  I’m addressing this because I was on a fistful of medicines that did absolutely nothing for my complaints–medications like prednisone which may have longterm side effects– until finally one reputable MD discussed my symptoms  with me and concluded that I was overmedicated.  He was right.  I just hope that everyone out there who is on six different medications takes the times to ask themselves "Is this really working for me."  At least in my case, that was the clincher to solving my problems.

Response:

Question:

My son, 12 years old, uses an Albuterol inhaler for his asthma.  The problem is that he uses it daily sometimes several times a day and has been doing this for a few years now.  He is also one of the shortest kids in his class. Could Albuterol be stunting his growth?

You have already heard from everyone that  albuterol isn’t a steroid, so i won’t go into that.   However, I will share that my now 18 yr old son was always the shortest in his class. The pediatrician even checked his growth hormone. He has had severe asthma since he was an infant and even had his first round of steroids at about 6 months. He was cronic and even went through a period of years when he was on every other day regiman with frequent bursts and hospitalization.   He had reflux surgery at the age of 10 and this improved him greatly. Still asthmatic- on tons of meds, but non-the less manageable to a point. The conclusion to this was we got him off oral steroid on reg. basis(he still takes bursts) during his early teen years, and when he had his growth spurt, everyone was shocked..partly because we have a lot of short people in our families.   He is now 5′8(he says taller). We don’t know if it was in part due to meds or jusyt a late bloomer, because some kids(esp.boys) often have late growth spurts and pass up there peers. I hope you find this encouraging.

Response:

I am a respiratory therapist who specializes in Pediatric asthma. Albuterol is a bronchodialator medication which relaxes the muscles that constrict the airways during an asthma attack. It does not contain steroids!!!! According to the national guidelines for asthma care, people who use albuterol on a daily basis should be on anti-inflammatory medications to help control asthma. There is alot of information about asthma on the Internet but you need to be careful of what you read. For more information on asthma you can use www.asthma.com and find the National Heart Lung and Blood site for accurate info on treating asthma. Your son should rinse his mouth after taking inhaled steroids to reduce the risk of mouth irritation and systemic side effects. If your son uses a spacer with his inhalers, he will get more medicine in his lungs. Technique is vital for the medication to get into the lungs and to be effective. Ask your physician for a spacing device to use with the inhaler. Lastly, for people who use steroids in moderate to large doses for a long period of time, there may be some growth suppression of about 1 centimeter per year. Steroids come in several ways: oral (pill or liquid), IV and inhaled (puffers or metered dose inhalers). Some common steroid inhalers are Flovent, Azmacort, Aerobid, Pulmocort. These are controlling medications and by that I mean they reduce the inflammation in the airways that make it hard for air to move in the lungs. These need to be taken regularly to help control asthma, if the asthma is bad enough. There are medications which are not steroids which are inhaled such as Intal and Tilade which we use to help control asthma too. One way to tell if the asthma is under control is by the number of times you use your albuterol. It sounds like your son needs to be assessed for his technique of how he uses his inhaler (if he is using it properly), and also needs to be evaluated by a specialist. Maybe you can talk to your physician and request a referral to a specialist. I have had asthma all my life and have learned to control it with proper medication use and know what my warning signs are when my asthma starts to act up. If your physician will not refer you, you may consider talking to another physician who can refer you to a specialist. Today, we know that asthma can be controlled and should not limit your activities! I hope this helps! Let me know if you would like more details and I will gladly help you!  Tim

Response:

My son, 12 years old, uses an Albuterol inhaler for his asthma.  The problem is that he uses it daily sometimes several times a day and has been doing this for a few years now.  He is also one of the shortest kids in his class.  Could Albuterol be stunting his growth?  A friend of mine who also has asthma and uses Albuterol insisted that Albuterol contains steroids that can be slowing my son’s growth.  Is this true?

As others have pointed out, albuterol is not a steroid; albuterol does not stunt growth, but poorly controlled asthma could. Sounds like he needs to see another doctor who is more up to date on current asthma treatment, or get a referral to an allergist; he probably needs to have a Low to Medium dose steroid inhaler prescribed; this is quite safe and shouldn’t affect growth. He may just be a slow developer; many kids go thru puberty early and shoot up in height. If he has a serious growth problem, this might be ‘Failure to Thrive’. See: http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinRef/FPHandbook/Chapter10/12-10.html University of Iowa Family Practice Handbook, 3rd Edition, Chapter 10 Pediatrics: Failure to Thrive http://www.healthanswers.com/centers/topic/overview.asp?id=children’s… http://www.pedianet.com/news/illness/gddguide/ftt.htm Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, she said that he should be rinsing his mouth out with water each and every time he uses his inhaler to avoid thrush.  Anyone have any information on this?  My son’s family physician is not really managing the asthma since he claims it’s only mild.  But given the frequency that my son uses his inhaler, I’m beginning to wonder.  We don’t have an allergist or pulmonary specialist…that requires a referral from the family physician.  Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

I am a respiratory therapist who specializes in Pediatric asthma. Albuterol is a bronchodialator medication which relaxes the muscles that constrict the airways during an asthma attack. It does not contain steroids!!!! According to the national guidelines for asthma care, people who use albuterol on a daily basis should be on anti-inflammatory medications to help control asthma. There is alot of information about asthma on the Internet but you need to be careful of what you read. For more information on asthma you can use www.asthma.com and find the National Heart Lung and Blood site for accurate info on treating asthma. Your son should rinse his mouth after taking inhaled steroids to reduce the risk of mouth irritation and systemic side effects. If your son uses a spacer with his inhalers, he will get more medicine in his lungs. Technique is vital for the medication to get into the lungs and to be effective. Ask your physician for a spacing device to use with the inhaler. Lastly, for people who use steroids in moderate to large doses for a long period of time, there may be some growth suppression of about 1 centimeter per year. Steroids come in several ways: oral (pill or liquid), IV and inhaled (puffers or metered dose inhalers). Some common steroid inhalers are Flovent, Azmacort, Aerobid, Pulmocort. These are controlling medications and by that I mean they reduce the inflammation in the airways that make it hard for air to move in the lungs. These need to be taken regularly to help control asthma, if the asthma is bad enough. There are medications which are not steroids which are inhaled such as Intal and Tilade which we use to help control asthma too. One way to tell if the asthma is under control is by the number of times you use your albuterol. It sounds like your son needs to be assessed for his technique of how he uses his inhaler (if he is using it properly), and also needs to be evaluated by a specialist. Maybe you can talk to your physician and request a referral to a specialist. I have had asthma all my life and have learned to control it with proper medication use and know what my warning signs are when my asthma starts to act up. If your physician will not refer you, you may consider talking to another physician who can refer you to a specialist. Today, we know that asthma can be controlled and should not limit your activities! I hope this helps! Let me know if you would like more details and I will gladly help you!  Tim

Response:

Very well stated.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My son, 12 years old, uses an Albuterol inhaler for his asthma.  The problem is that he uses it daily sometimes several times a day and has been doing this for a few years now.  He is also one of the shortest kids in his class. 1. Emily and Colin are right.  Albuterol is NOT a steroid inhaler.  Repeated use of Albuterol can make the medicine less effective for the patient.  I would get educated on the current asthma meds today.  www.drkoop.com and www.healthcentral.com is a good start. 2. CBI is right that poorly controlled Asthma can cause stunting of growth. Frequent and heavy use of oral (pill form) steroid meds can cause some growth stunting, but the jury is still out on inhaled steroids.  Yes, I’ve seen the news reports about the supposed dangers of inhaled steroids but many doctors ( I asked 2 Internal Medicine docs and 2 Asthma specialists) here in Memphis and they think the studies are either confused (mixing pill and inhaled steroids in the study), incomplete (not taking in account that poorly controlled asthma can cause growth stunting), or needs further study. 3. Another reason for the apparent dismissal of the news reports about the dangers of steroids by these doctors is the simple fact that the dosage absorbed by the body in inhaled steroid meds is less than 0.1% in weight compared to oral (pill form) steroids.  With that said, the asthma specialists I talked to whole-heartily agree that the long term side effects caused by any steroid medicine are less than the long term side effects of uncontrolled asthma if its properly prescribed by a doctor that has current knowledge about asthma. 4. Busting asthma myths with the facts below: – It is now known that uncontrolled or poorly controlled asthma can cause premature lung damage. – Asthma is NOT in your head.  In fact, most specialist can diagnose most types of asthma as a physical condition with proper equipment. – Asthma can be made worse by physical and/or psychological stress which can trigger an asthma attack, but stress does not CAUSE asthma. – Forcing a child to exercise to the point of having an asthma attack again and again will NOT help the child’s asthma, instead it can make the asthma WORSE and possibly cause lung damage or an uncontrolled asthma attack (a note to my Physical Education teacher). – Asthma is NOT a children’s disease and that some children NEVER outgrow their asthma.  In fact, some children actually have a worsening of asthma during their teenage and adulthood.  There are many people who get asthma in adulthood. – For UNKNOWN reasons, the number of asthmatics in this country is rapidly increasing. – Asthma can kill.  I myself almost died of it.  My wife saw a few children die of asthma during a short stint at a children’s hospital.  All of these children has poorly controlled asthma. – Asthma medicines properly prescribed by a doctor with current knowledge of asthma and asthma medications and if the medicines are properly taken can and will prevent serious asthma attacks most of the time.  Many former "near untreatable" asthmatics now function most of the time as if they don’t have asthma thanks to major breakthroughs in asthma treatment in the past 20 years. – NOTHING can cure asthma today.  Not some super secret snake oil or special plant.  Not breathing exercises.  Not breathing only through your nose.  Not wearing magnetic jewelry.  Not breathing Ozone.  N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!! – Asthma can be successfully treated and control in most cases.  Some people suddenly stop being asthmatics for UNCLEAR reasons.  Some "outgrow" their asthma.  Some women stop being asthmatics after or during pregnancy.  Some people stop being asthmatics for NO CLEALY APPARENT REASON! 4. Your son’s asthma is NOT under control.  I don’t care if your family doctor says it is. This frequent use of Albuterol indicates that the asthma is NOT properly controlled.  Get your child a referral to a good asthma specialist.  A good asthma specialist tends to know the latest about approved asthma treatments. Disclaimer: I am NOT a doctor.  I was a certified once certified in First Aid by the Red Cross.  I once was a "nearly untreatable" life long asthmatic and almost died of asthma at least once that I can remember.  My youngest sister almost died twice from asthma. Most of my medical knowledge about asthma was taught to me by numerous asthma specialists, respiratory therapists, and family doctors succesfully treating asthmatics. After 25 years of poorly controlled asthma, the newer medicines have kept me mostly attack free and they seem to do the same for my youngest sister. Good luck for you and your son, Rob

Response:

My son, 12 years old, uses an Albuterol inhaler for his asthma.  The problem is that he uses it daily sometimes several times a day and has been doing this for a few years now.  He is also one of the shortest kids in his class.

1. Emily and Colin are right.  Albuterol is NOT a steroid inhaler.  Repeated use of Albuterol can make the medicine less effective for the patient.  I would get educated on the current asthma meds today.  www.drkoop.com and www.healthcentral.com is a good start. 2. CBI is right that poorly controlled Asthma can cause stunting of growth. Frequent and heavy use of oral (pill form) steroid meds can cause some growth stunting, but the jury is still out on inhaled steroids.  Yes, I’ve seen the news reports about the supposed dangers of inhaled steroids but many doctors ( I asked 2 Internal Medicine docs and 2 Asthma specialists) here in Memphis and they think the studies are either confused (mixing pill and inhaled steroids in the study), incomplete (not taking in account that poorly controlled asthma can cause growth stunting), or needs further study. 3. Another reason for the apparent dismissal of the news reports about the dangers of steroids by these doctors is the simple fact that the dosage absorbed by the body in inhaled steroid meds is less than 0.1% in weight compared to oral (pill form) steroids.  With that said, the asthma specialists I talked to whole-heartily agree that the long term side effects caused by any steroid medicine are less than the long term side effects of uncontrolled asthma if its properly prescribed by a doctor that has current knowledge about asthma. 4. Busting asthma myths with the facts below: – It is now known that uncontrolled or poorly controlled asthma can cause premature lung damage. – Asthma is NOT in your head.  In fact, most specialist can diagnose most types of asthma as a physical condition with proper equipment. – Asthma can be made worse by physical and/or psychological stress which can trigger an asthma attack, but stress does not CAUSE asthma. – Forcing a child to exercise to the point of having an asthma attack again and again will NOT help the child’s asthma, instead it can make the asthma WORSE and possibly cause lung damage or an uncontrolled asthma attack (a note to my Physical Education teacher). – Asthma is NOT a children’s disease and that some children NEVER outgrow their asthma.  In fact, some children actually have a worsening of asthma during their teenage and adulthood.  There are many people who get asthma in adulthood. – For UNKNOWN reasons, the number of asthmatics in this country is rapidly increasing. – Asthma can kill.  I myself almost died of it.  My wife saw a few children die of asthma during a short stint at a children’s hospital.  All of these children has poorly controlled asthma. – Asthma medicines properly prescribed by a doctor with current knowledge of asthma and asthma medications and if the medicines are properly taken can and will prevent serious asthma attacks most of the time.  Many former "near untreatable" asthmatics now function most of the time as if they don’t have asthma thanks to major breakthroughs in asthma treatment in the past 20 years. – NOTHING can cure asthma today.  Not some super secret snake oil or special plant.  Not breathing exercises.  Not breathing only through your nose.  Not wearing magnetic jewelry.  Not breathing Ozone.  N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!! – Asthma can be successfully treated and control in most cases.  Some people suddenly stop being asthmatics for UNCLEAR reasons.  Some "outgrow" their asthma.  Some women stop being asthmatics after or during pregnancy.  Some people stop being asthmatics for NO CLEALY APPARENT REASON! 4. Your son’s asthma is NOT under control.  I don’t care if your family doctor says it is. This frequent use of Albuterol indicates that the asthma is NOT properly controlled.  Get your child a referral to a good asthma specialist.  A good asthma specialist tends to know the latest about approved asthma treatments. Disclaimer: I am NOT a doctor.  I was a certified once certified in First Aid by the Red Cross.  I once was a "nearly untreatable" life long asthmatic and almost died of asthma at least once that I can remember.  My youngest sister almost died twice from asthma. Most of my medical knowledge about asthma was taught to me by numerous asthma specialists, respiratory therapists, and family doctors succesfully treating asthmatics. After 25 years of poorly controlled asthma, the newer medicines have kept me mostly attack free and they seem to do the same for my youngest sister. Good luck for you and your son, Rob

Response:

kids in his class.  Could Albuterol be stunting his growth?  A friend of

No. mine who also has asthma and uses Albuterol insisted that Albuterol contains steroids that can be slowing my son’s growth.  Is this true?

Albuterol is a bronchodilator and does NOT contain steroids.   Your friend is wrong and needs some education about asthma meds. Also, she said that he should be rinsing his mouth out with water each and every time he uses his inhaler to avoid thrush.  Anyone have any

This should be done for inhaled steroids [e.g. Beclovent, Pulmicort], as in some people some of the time they can cause thrush.  It is not needed for abluterol, though rinsing the mouth out probably helps get the sometimes icky taste of albuterol + propellant out of one’s mouth. information on this?  My son’s family physician is not really managing the asthma since he claims it’s only mild.  But given the frequency that

With the frequency that your son is using his inhaler, his asthma is NOT mild by any definition that I am aware of. You may want to go to the JAMA web site — www.jama.org and go look at their asthma stuff and look up the national asthma standards stuff [er, I can't remember the acronym...  it is the national recommended guidelines for the management of asthma...  something along those lines is what it iscalled... you'll recognize it when you see it ]… they have a lot of good info, and you will probably learn a lot… including how your son SHOULD be being treated my son uses his inhaler, I’m beginning to wonder.  We don’t have an allergist or pulmonary specialist…that requires a referral from the family physician.  Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Given his frequency of use, at worst he needs to be seeing his MD, at best he perhaps needs a referral to a specialist…  if your MD wont do it, yu may want to explore what other options you have for getting such a referral, including changing MDs or speaking with your insurer… Good luck. Sw. THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE.

Response:

The others are right.     1) There is no steroid in albuterol.     2) Albuterol is not known (or even suspected) to stunt growth. It does sound like his asthma us not well controlled. Having daily symptoms and using the inhaler more than three times per week puts his asthma at moderate at best. he should be on a chronic anti-inflammatory medication, either a steroid or Tilade/Intal. The steroids are the asthma meds suspected to stunt growth. This has been looked at and is, at most, a mild effect when they are used at high doses. They are also the best medicine to control most asthmatics. I would suggest that he has another cause for his short stature. If being small runs in the family that may be it. If he is much smaller than one would expect from his family history then there are other considerations such as cystic fibrosis and more testing may be warranted. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. P.S. Agonist means that the chemical binds to a receptor an stimulates it ("turns it on"). This is as opposed to an antagonist which binds and blocks it ("turns it off"). Albuterol is a modified version of epinephrine. There are several different types of receptor for epinephrine broadly classified as alpha and beta. The beta receptors are the predominant receptor in the lung. When they are stimulated (turned on by an agonist – epinephrine or albuterol) they cause the smooth muscles around the airways to relax. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My son, 12 years old, uses an Albuterol inhaler for his asthma.  The problem is that he uses it daily sometimes several times a day and has been doing this for a few years now.  He is also one of the shortest kids in his class.  Could Albuterol be stunting his growth?  A friend of mine who also has asthma and uses Albuterol insisted that Albuterol contains steroids that can be slowing my son’s growth.  Is this true? Also, she said that he should be rinsing his mouth out with water each and every time he uses his inhaler to avoid thrush.  Anyone have any information on this?  My son’s family physician is not really managing the asthma since he claims it’s only mild.  But given the frequency that my son uses his inhaler, I’m beginning to wonder.  We don’t have an allergist or pulmonary specialist…that requires a referral from the family physician.  Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

My son, 12 years old, uses an Albuterol inhaler for his asthma.  The problem is that he uses it daily sometimes several times a day and has been doing this for a few years now.  He is also one of the shortest kids in his class.  Could Albuterol be stunting his growth?

No.  But uncontrolled asthma can interfere with growth. A friend of mine who also has asthma and uses Albuterol insisted that Albuterol contains steroids that can be slowing my son’s growth.  Is this true?

No.  Albuterol is a beta agonist.  These medications are used to treat asthma symptoms.  If a patient has to use these on a regular basis than he needs to get on some for of long term therapy that will actually control the asthma and not just suppress the symptoms. Also, she said that he should be rinsing his mouth out with water each and every time he uses his inhaler to avoid thrush.  Anyone have any information on this?  My son’s family physician is not really managing the asthma since he claims it’s only mild.  But given the frequency that my son uses his inhaler, I’m beginning to wonder.  We don’t have an allergist or pulmonary specialist…that requires a referral from the family physician.  Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Your son’s asthma appears to be out of control.  You need to take him to a specialist. "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

Response:

My son, 12 years old, uses an Albuterol inhaler for his asthma.  The problem is that he uses it daily sometimes several times a day and has been doing this for a few years now.  He is also one of the shortest kids in his class.  Could Albuterol be stunting his growth?  A friend of mine who also has asthma and uses Albuterol insisted that Albuterol contains steroids that can be slowing my son’s growth.  Is this true?

<snipped for brevity Your friend is wrong. There is *no* steroid in Albuterol; it belongs to the beta agonist class of bronchodilators. (No, I can’t define "beta agonist," but some of the medical pros on here can.) In fact, it is most often recommended now that *inhaled* steroids be considered the first line of defense. You might want to ask your doctor about this, since the frequency of Albuterol use suggests that althoug his asthma may be mild, it is not being well controlled. Some help here, Ellis??? Emily Knit a hug, crochet a cuddle, sew a smile. http://www.newbornsinneed.org

Response:

My son, 12 years old, uses an Albuterol inhaler for his asthma.  The problem is that he uses it daily sometimes several times a day and has been doing this for a few years now.  He is also one of the shortest kids in his class.  Could Albuterol be stunting his growth?  A friend of mine who also has asthma and uses Albuterol insisted that Albuterol contains steroids that can be slowing my son’s growth.  Is this true? Also, she said that he should be rinsing his mouth out with water each and every time he uses his inhaler to avoid thrush.  Anyone have any information on this?  My son’s family physician is not really managing the asthma since he claims it’s only mild.  But given the frequency that my son uses his inhaler, I’m beginning to wonder.  We don’t have an allergist or pulmonary specialist…that requires a referral from the family physician.  Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use Dr. Chuck cause no one can say my last name. I am a Critical Care doctor. For the last 6 years, in addition to running an ICU, I ran a pulmonary rehab center, where I treated COPD and asthma patients exclusively. I recently moved, so I closed the clinic last year and I hope to reopen one where I live now. I do it for the personal interest, not the money. (Two reasons: (1) I got tired of treating out-of-control asthmatics and COPDers when they ended up on ventilators because they were mis or uninformed. (2) My wife has asthma and I discovered no one knew what they were talking about – or didn’t bother to teach patients what they knew.) Sadly, local politics may prevent the opening of a clinic in my area. I’m the "Patch Adams" type of doctor. Very informal, rarely seen in a shirt and tie. (How many docs do you see working in blue denim shorts and a t-shirt? <grin) I bicycle to work or drive my ‘73 Superbeetle (which looks like the wheels will fall off). answer them in my own good time, and I don’t claim to be the last word in anything. Dr. Chuck Critical Care Medicine

Here’s a link to the movie web site, with story: http://www.patchadams.com/ http://www.patchadams.com/story.html Story Excerpt:                 " Academy Award

Question:

My Dr. said my body just needs time to adjust. For some reason, I don’t have a lot of confidence in that answer. Mary

I wouldn’t be either….   The term second and/or third opinion would be coming to mind.. Harold Spatz Independent Alpine Dealer I help people breathe easier, I help people make money by showing them how to do the same thing.

Response:

My 12-year-old daughter has been on Singulair for a several months. Lately, her ankles have been crackling, and she reports aching knees. We are going to call the doctor next week, as I suspect the asthma meds. She is also on Pulmocort and Seravent. We had thought it was a sprain but are starting to wonder, as it has lasted for two weeks or so.

Response:

Hi Mary, I had similar symptoms.  I’ve given it up with no effects and the symptoms have gone. Brian Fellows – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I experience arthritis-like stiffness and stabbing pains when taking Singulair, especially in my hands. Others have mentioned this happening to them as well. Does anyone know what this is and should I discontinue taking it?

Response:

One nice thing about asthma is you can tell whether the drugs are working or not. If peak flows go up and symptoms are controlled, the drugs are working. Some drugs take longer to take effect; steroids take several hours to start to take effect and several days to take full effect; short acting bronchodilators start taking effect within 5 minutes. Singulair has been shown to start to take effect within the first 24 hours; it did with me; but it only helps 2/3 who take it. I initially got a 10% increase in peak flow and personal best. I did notice some side effects of fatigue. However Singulair doesn’t seem to help during exacerbations. So I now take it about every other day (didn’t ask my doctor, just started doing it). I have found to control exacerbations its either very High Dose inhaled steroids, or oral steroids. I prefer the former to minimize the systemic steroid effects. The benefits of any drug have to be traded off against the side effects. If in your case it appears the benefits are not that great, why not just try dropping the Singulair for a few days. The normal caveat is tell the doctor what you are doing and why. [There does seems to be some evidence to support what is happening, and the doctor may not be aware of it, it is a new drug whose place in asthma treatment is not well established] If dropping the Singulair stops the pains, you could double check by resuming for a few days, then stopping again. [I'm assuming you are using other drugs to control asthma, like steroid inhalers, and are monitoring peak flow or/and symptoms] Its also possible you could tolerate a lower dose than  the standard 10 mg adult tablet; you could take every  other day; or ask for the 5 mg children’s version. During my 9 years of asthma I have tried numerous drugs; some I tried that didn’t work or had bad side effects were  Tilade, Aerobid, Atrovent. If the drug doesn’t work or has  bad side effects, don’t take it. There are plently of  asthma drugs that do work. I’m now going to try a new  steroid inhaler; Pulmicort or Flovent 220 (now on Vanceril DS). BTW, if your symptoms from Singulair are confirmed, they should be reported to the MedWatch program at the FDA; either your doctor or you can report. Ellis, not a doctor but a pro-active asthmatic,  these are just my opinions – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Dr. said my body just needs time to adjust. For some reason, I don’t have a lot of confidence in that answer. Mary I experience arthritis-like stiffness and stabbing pains when taking Singulair, especially in my hands. Others have mentioned this happening to them as well. Does anyone know what this is and should I discontinue taking it? Singulair blocks the metabolism of the leukotrienes.  When this happens, the arachadonic acid cascade produces more prostaglandins; which, amongst other things, are mediators of pain.  You need to talk to your doctor about this. Chris Owens

Response:

I get arthritis-like symptoms when I take Singulair. My fingers get stiff and my hands ache all over. I also get stabbing pains in other main joints or in the shins. I’ve read that other people have experienced this. Does anyone knows what causes it and if I shouldn’t take it? I knew the claims of no side-effects was too good to be true. Mary

Response:

My Dr. said my body just needs time to adjust. For some reason, I don’t have a lot of confidence in that answer. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I experience arthritis-like stiffness and stabbing pains when taking Singulair, especially in my hands. Others have mentioned this happening to them as well. Does anyone know what this is and should I discontinue taking it? Singulair blocks the metabolism of the leukotrienes.  When this happens, the arachadonic acid cascade produces more prostaglandins; which, amongst other things, are mediators of pain.  You need to talk to your doctor about this. Chris Owens

Response:

I experience arthritis-like stiffness and stabbing pains when taking Singulair, especially in my hands. Others have mentioned this happening to them as well. Does anyone know what this is and should I discontinue taking it?

Singulair blocks the metabolism of the leukotrienes.  When this happens, the arachadonic acid cascade produces more prostaglandins; which, amongst other things, are mediators of pain.  You need to talk to your doctor about this. Chris Owens

Response:

I experience arthritis-like stiffness and stabbing pains when taking Singulair, especially in my hands. Others have mentioned this happening to them as well. Does anyone know what this is and should I discontinue taking it? Mary

Response:

Question:

three stooges: p.s. would it have been strange of COLIN SPELLED KOOLIN? If so, I would have written about three initials of three people: KKK: Kendrick, King, and the third one Once upon a time, nice people participated in a news group for asthma. many of the people or their children do suffer from asthma. Three people decided to take over the news group: KENDRICK, COLIN and KING. All together, they became the master of medicine. tHEY CLAIM THEY KNOW EVERYTHING, AND THEY RESPOND TO EVERYTHING. One idiot, like COLIn, can find information just about everything, although he is not an authorized  medical expert. I AM TALKING ABOUT JUST TECHNICAL INFO. NOW, THIS IDIOT, argue with me about OMEGA OIL, and CNN and the Feb. 6, 1996 announcement by most of the news agencies that: "OMEGA OIL FOUND IN FISH REDUCES ASTHMA ATTACKS IN CHILDREN". he now asked me via another subject "where is the article?" Well, idiot, from one hand you have provided so much sources of information, and now you play damn stupid guy who cant follow tons of information I provided, including names of news agencies and dates to truck the article? Furthermore, that stupid, is stupid enough NOT TO AGREE WITH ME about the OMEGA OIL and its importance in fighting asthma. friends, we are dealing here with people who were born to harass and argue, not to help. I recall one person who was harassed by COLIN, so that he left the group. And what bother me is your reaction. I call all of you to assess the information, to ask questions, and TO CALL UPON THESE THREE STOOGES to leave the group for ever. Since some people who contacted me had problems finding WWW.INNEROUTPOST.COM/ASTHMA here is the information. Take care of your health. Joseph (c) Copyrights 1998 by Joseph Tsiyoni WEB: WWW.INNEROUTPOST.COM/ASTHMA HERE IS THE INFORMATION Please note: All information here is protected under copyrights laws. No one is entitled to copy any part of this document by any way. THIS DOCUMENT IS POSTED HERE IN RESPONSE TO SLANDER AND DEFAMATION INFORMATION POSTED BY THREE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO CONTROL THE ASTHMA NEWS GROUP: Colin, Kendrick, King. Remember these name, ignore them. Thank you Since November 1985, my son no longer has any symptoms of asthma, or any of the problems associated with asthma. He does not take any medications or treatments." Dr. Koder’s Asthma Process: To date there is no known cure; Yet, my son and others no longer suffer from asthma symptoms. An Israeli doctor, his unpublished asthma process, and $30 for a natural food supplement changed my son’s life forever. My son suffered from severe asthma for many years, resulting in frequent hospital visits, constant use of inhalers and medication, numerous days and nights of discomfort, and in some instances, his life was threatened. Since November 1985, my son no longer has any symptoms of asthma, or any of the problems associated with asthma. He does not take any medications or treatments. He now lives a healthy and normal life. Dr. Julien D. Koder, an Israeli doctor, developed a process to treat his patients suffering from asthma and irritating cough. He became aware of my son’s condition and personally instructed me in the use of his process. Dr. Koder’s process simply entailed the preparation and use of a natural seed for a period of six months….a natural seed which is a common food used and sold in food stores. No claims can be made that this process cures asthma. I can only claim that many of Dr. Koder’s patients, like my son, no longer suffer from asthma symptoms. (c) Copyrights 1998 by Joseph Tsiyoni "ASTHMACARE WAS THE BEST INVESTMENT I EVER MADE. I HAVE SAVED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN DOCTORS BILLS, HOSPITAL BILLS, MEDICATIONS, AND OTHER RELATED MEDICAL EXPENSES." (c) Copyrights 1998 by Joseph Tsiyoni WHY MY SON NO LONGER SUFFERS FROM ASTHMA SYMPTOMS"</B A TRUE FAMILY EXPERIENCE "There is no known cure for asthma. But I was able to relieve the symptoms of my son’s asthma thanks to a natural food cooking process" (J.T., author) This is a remarkable story of how, after spending only $30 on six months of a natural seed supply, the author’s son no longer suffers from asthmatic symptoms, and has not used asthma medications since 1986. "Dear Dr. Koder, I am very grateful to you for helping me with my asthma. I am willing to travel all over the country on my own to convince people to use the natural seed…" When Dr. Koder showed the author this and many other thank-you letters, he knew he could help his son who suffered from severe asthma. Shortly before the book was written, the author’s brother suffered from an asthmatic cough. Within 15 days and $8 worth of grain, his cough was gone. DISCLAIMER: A. I do not have a medical degree nor do I offer any medical advice or treatment. B. By saying "my son no longer suffers from asthmatic symptoms" and "all asthma symptoms were gone", I mean that my son no longer shows any asthma symptoms, and that he has not used asthmatic medications for 10 years. C. To the best of my knowledge, there is no cure for asthma. Asthma can be controlled by treatment provided by a physician. However, I have had a personal family experience which resulted in the relief of asthma symptoms. D. The special process of preparing and cooking a natural seed, described in this book, is called AsthmaCare cooking process. E. In using the AsthmaCare cooking process, it is extremely important to read the entire book, and pay attention to all details. In cooking and using the grain, all medications should be continued. F. Before I started what I call the AsthmaCare cooking process, I knew that the success depended on various factors, of which I had no control. I tried to eliminate these factors. For example, air pollution, indoor pollutants (no one smoked in my home), weather and humidity (we moved from a humid area to the desert), dust mites (we constantly vacuumed) and emotional and physical stress (we tried to reduce stress as much as possible). Any of these factors can interfere with the process. That is why I realized there can be no guarantees of success. Fortunately, however, it did work for my son and my brother. G. My son no longer suffers from asthmatic symptoms which I believe is a direct result of the natural seed cooking process. H. Only a physician can treat and order medications change medications. I described a nutritional approach and process of a dietary nature. I believe it positive benefits for some people, with respect asthma and irritative cough, if the process is followed carefully and completely. I.  I do not know for sure how it works scientifically but, I the reality is that it worked for my family and for me and other people. Can this process work for someone else? I can only say it worked for us. J.  I PAID The cost of the seed, $30 for my son, and $8 for brother. That  was the best investment I ever made particularly in light of the hundreds of dollars in medication cost.  (c) Copyrights 1998 by Joseph Tsiyoni CAN DR. KODER’S ASTHMA PROCESS HELP YOU ? I, at first, was very skeptical knowing that there was no known cure for asthma, yet like all loving, concerned parents, was desperate to help my son. Assured that there was absolutely no risk, since the process entailed only a natural food, there was nothing to lose except the agonizing discomfort of my son’s debilitating disease. In 1996 my brother was diagnosed with an asthmatic cough. Per my advice, he also used Dr. Koder’s process, for only three weeks. He no longer suffers from any asthmatic symptoms. I have received Dr. Koder’s widow’s permission to document Dr. Koder’s process and share it with other asthma sufferers. She was also kind enough to share with me some of the many letters of appreciation from his patients. I cannot and do not make any claims that Dr. Koder’s process will cure or relieve asthma or its symptoms. I can only relate that both my son and brother no longer suffer from asthma, and that I am in possession of many letters from Dr. Koder’s patients expressing appreciation for his process and their relief from asthma. (c) Copyrights 1998 by Joseph Tsiyoni The late Israeli physician, Dr. J. Julien D. Koder, is the developer of the natural seed cooking process. "Dr. Koder, over forty years ago, developed a process which entailed cooking a natural seed which he found helpful to his asthmatic patients…. He, in turn, over the next forty years, used this process in helping many other people suffering from asthma, irritative cough, asthmatic cough and other similar conditions…. I had the privilege to learn the AsthmaCare cooking process’" from Dr. Koder personally. I am, and always will be, grateful to him for bringing my son to the point where he no longer suffers from asthma symptoms. This process also helped my brother who suffered from an asthmatic irritative cough…" SUMMARY: Omega Oil Fatty Acid is probably a major factor in asthma treatment. It is assumed that after the "AsthmaCare Cooking Process"" gets recognition, researchers will find the scientific reason for its contribution to its effectiveness. It is known that the medical industry ignores idea provided without Published Peer Reviewed Research (PPRR). However, since the "food" for this process is on the market for centuries (there are several types of the same grain), and costs only $34 for the entire process, it would be unfortunate to wait years until a medical institution will decide to complete the PPRR. Doctors are urged to seriously examine this process and apply it. SCIENTIFIC FACTS RELATED TO Dr. KODER ‘S ASTHMA PROCESS On Feb. 7, 1996, it was reported by some news agencies, including CNN, that Omega Oil Fatty Acid found in fish reduces asthma attacks. Associated Press reported June 9, 1997 that the Goud family in India treat asthmatic people using 152 years old secret formula. They give people live FISH (already proved that consists Omega Oil) … read more »

Response:

three stooges: p.s. would it have been strange of COLIN SPELLED KOOLIN? If so, I would have written about three initials of three people: KKK: Kendrick, King, and the third one

    That is a filthy intimation — a FAQ update is coming shortly detailing Joseph’s attempt to play what Chris King has called "the race card."     Filthy RACIST spammer. Thank you for your cooperation. Take care of your asthma, and don’t waste time on garbage.

    … like Joe’s bobe-mayse of a book.

Response:

Once again we are in the MST theater.

Any chance of New MST to supplement Original MST? [horrible not fooling anyone forgery] Pearl

Response:

Once again we are in the MST theater.  Thank you, Josephspaz, for making us laugh at spam again. Joel:  No, that’s Larry, Curly, and Moe Tom Servo:  No, Crosby, Stills, and Nash Crow:  No, it’s Ginger Spice, Posh Spice, and Baby Spice Joel:  Great, now I’m picturing the guys in short tight dresses Crow:  Sorry Tom Servo:  Works for me Crow:  It’s Josephspaz once again! (They all groan) three stooges: Joel:  You know, I bet that Josephspaz isn’t intelligent enough to understand Three Stooges eps p.s. would it have been strange of COLIN SPELLED KOOLIN? Joel:  No Crow:  You mean like coolant? Tom Servo (Scotty accent):  Captain, there’s a coolant leak!  I dinnae think she can handle it! If so, I would have written about three initials of three people: Joel:  I would have written about unicorns, but that’s just me KKK: Crow:  Oh, that’s just offensive  Kendrick, King, and the third one Tom Servo (singing):  And the rest! Crow:  The Professor and Mary Ann really got the shaft on that lyric Once upon a time, nice people participated in a news group for asthma. Joel:  Then I came and spammed the group many of the people or their children do suffer from asthma. Tom Servo:  Josephspaz, on the other hand, suffers from psychotic delusions Three people decided to take over the news group: KENDRICK, COLIN and KING. Crow:  Abraham, Martin, and John All together, they became the master of medicine. Crow: No, they’re Masters of the Universe Tom Servo:  I HAVE THE POWER!  tHEY CLAIM THEY KNOW EVERYTHING, Joel: Like how to read and write Crow:  And spell AND THEY RESPOND TO EVERYTHING. One idiot, like COLIn, can find information just about everything, Joel:  He knows how to do research, I so hate that although he is not an authorized  medical expert. I AM TALKING ABOUT JUST TECHNICAL INFO. Crow:  Like how to kill file Josephspaz NOW, THIS IDIOT, argue with me about OMEGA OIL, and CNN and the Feb. 6, 1996 announcement by most of the news agencies that: "OMEGA OIL FOUND IN FISH REDUCES ASTHMA ATTACKS IN CHILDREN". Joel:  Ok, I *really* want to smack this idiot upside the head  with a copy of Strunk and White’s _Elements of Style_ he now asked me via another subject "where is the article?" Tom Servo:  Where’s the Beef? Joel:  Ah the 80s.  I miss those days.  Now let’s never talk about that again Well, idiot, from one hand you have provided so much sources of information, and now you play damn stupid guy who cant follow tons of information I provided, Tom Servo:  And now *you* play damn stupid guy who can’t use English properly including names of news agencies and dates to truck the article? Furthermore, that stupid, Crow:  That stupid?  What is that like That Girl?  is stupid enough NOT TO AGREE WITH ME about the OMEGA OIL and its importance in fighting asthma. Crow:  Ugh, me angry, me write stupid Joel:  It’s called having the ability to analyze comprehend information. Colin, Dave, and Chris have it; you  don’t friends, we are dealing here with people who were born to harass and argue, not to help. Joel:  Yeah, like Josephspaz, and Sadie, and… I recall one person who was harassed by COLIN, so that he left the group. Tom Servo:  And when are you going to do the same? And what bother me is your reaction. Joel:  And what *bothers* me is your lack of subject/verb agreement Tom Servo:  Perhaps it bothers him because we want *him* off the ng?  I call all of you to assess the information, to ask questions, Crow:  Why is the sky blue? Tom Servo:  What’s Vietnam? Joel:  What’s a spammer/troll?  Oh wait, we already have an example of that and TO CALL UPON THESE THREE STOOGES to leave the group for ever. Crow:  And make the way for Groucho Marx! Since some people who contacted me had problems finding WWW.INNEROUTPOST.COM/ASTHMA Tom Servo:  No, they just aren’t interested in your spam here is the information. Joel, Crow, and Tom Servo:  Noooooooooooo! Take care of your health. Joel:  I am; I’m ignoring your advice Joseph (c) Copyrights 1998 by Joseph Tsiyoni Crow:  It’s copyright, pillock Joel:  Guys, let’s run out of the theater before the mads notice that there’s more to his post (Deep 13) Dr.  Forrester:  Too late booby.  We’re uploading the Omega Oil spam right now (SOL) Joel:  Nooo!  Gypsy, quick, you look  into that box of hamdingers (Gypsy rummages through a box.  She pulls out a contraption made of egg cartons, pipe cleaners, and He-Man action figures) Gypsy:  Got it! Joel:  Good work, Gypsy!  You get a RAM chip! Tom Servo:  What is it? Joel:  It’s a Deus Ex Machina.  It’s the only thing that can separate the link between here and Deep 13 (Joel plugs the Deus Ex Machina into a control panel.  The image is rather suggestively Freudian) (Deep 13) Dr.  Forrester:  The upload is almost done.  Bwahahahaha!  Noooo! TV’s Frank:  What is it, Steve? Dr.  Forrester:  We got booted off AOHell.  The only thing that could do that is a Deus Ex Machina TV’s Frank:  Are you sure?  This *is* AOHell after all Dr. Forrester:  Don’t make me hurt you, Frank (SOL; Joel and the bots are rejoicing) Joel:  Yes, no more Josephspaz! Crow:  Wheee! (They form a conga line) (Back to Deep 13) Dr.  Forrester:  Celebrate good times for now, Joel-a-reenie-weenie, that Deus Ex Machina can’t last forever, especially once the network censors  get a load of that.  You will experience deep hurting, KC and the Sunshine Band.  Push the button, Frank. <poit "Furthermore, that stupid, is stupid enough NOT TO AGREE WITH ME about the OMEGA OIL and its importance in fighting asthma."   —Josephspaz This has been a Small Woodinat Creature Production Joel: What do you want for Christmas, Crow? Crow: I wanna decide who lives and who dies Joel: Oh, I don’t know…

Response:

Any chance of New MST to supplement Original MST? [horrible not fooling anyone forgery] Pearl

Sorry, I’m a die-hard Joel and Dr. Forrester/TV’s Frank lover.  They had the best chemistry.  Also, I’ve seen only  a little bit of the season with Mike.   Woodinat Joel: What do you want for Christmas, Crow? Crow: I wanna decide who lives and who dies Joel: Oh, I don’t know…

Response:

three stooges: p.s. would it have been strange of COLIN SPELLED KOOLIN? If so, I would have written about three initials of three people: KKK: Kendrick, King, and the third one

Oh look, Joe’s had to resort to racist jibes because he knows he’s lost the argument. He can’t even do that properly. How pathetic <yawns. Once upon a time, nice people participated in a news group for asthma. many of the people or their children do suffer from asthma.

That was before you arrived on the group and spammed all over the place. Then you attempted to suppress all criticism of your "process". Three people decided to take over the news group: KENDRICK, COLIN and KING.

Hey boys, did you hear that ? We’ve become the Asthma Cabal !!! All together, they became the master of medicine. tHEY CLAIM THEY KNOW EVERYTHING, AND THEY RESPOND TO EVERYTHING.

No, we don’t. Get your facts straight. Anyway, we’re not the ones posting whopping great adverts into inappropriate threads. One idiot, like COLIn, can find information just about everything, although he is not an authorized  medical expert. I AM TALKING ABOUT JUST TECHNICAL INFO.

Colin knows how to use a search engine to discover information. He can attribute it to the right people, and doesn’t make false claims about what he’s found, unlike you. NOW, THIS IDIOT, argue with me about OMEGA OIL, and CNN and the Feb. 6, 1996 announcement by most of the news agencies that: "OMEGA OIL FOUND IN FISH REDUCES ASTHMA ATTACKS IN CHILDREN". he now asked me via another subject "where is the article?"

I can’t find it either Joe. Please tell us where you found that article. We want FACTS, which you’re not prepared to provide – yet you keep whining that we’re "not looking at the facts". Stop sitting on the fence and give us some PROPER references, NO mis-quotes and NO lies. Well, idiot, from one hand you have provided so much sources of information, and now you play damn stupid guy who cant follow tons of information I provided, including names of news agencies and dates to truck the article?

But CNN couldn’t find it either ! I would say that Colin now has a solid case for libel against you. Give it up, before you land yourself in any more trouble. Furthermore, that stupid, is stupid enough NOT TO AGREE WITH ME about the OMEGA OIL and its importance in fighting asthma.

So, we’re stupid because we won’t line up like drooling imbeciles and buy your book ? And who the hell do you think you are, some sort of genius ? friends, we are dealing here with people who were born to harass and argue, not to help.

Hypocrite. I recall one person who was harassed by COLIN, so that he left the group.

Who ? Name them. By the way, trolls don’t count. And what bother me is your reaction. I call all of you to assess the information, to ask questions, and TO CALL UPON THESE THREE STOOGES to leave the group for ever.

Help ! Help ! I’m being deafened by the sound of silence !!! Since some people who contacted me had problems finding

[spam deleted] Let’s face facts Joe. Nobody has asked you for the info, so you’re resorting to publishing your spam yet again. I’ve had words with Primenet on this matter again, perhaps they’ll wake up and see what damage you’re doing to this group. Chris — Chris King http://www.csking.demon.co.uk

Response:

Once upon a time, nice people participated in a news group for asthma. many of the people or their children do suffer from asthma. Three people decided to take over the news group: KENDRICK, COLIN and KING.

ITYM " Once upon a time, etc…… , and then a spammer tried to sell a book

Response:

Re: INNEROUTPOST.COM/ASTHMA OMEGA OIL AND STUPIDITY: Chris King, one of the three stooges KKC, had posted a full page of Dr. vane, a Nobel prize winner who wrote about Omega oil. King, an associate newsgroup with the two other stooges, KENDRICK-SHMENDRICK and CoLIN, suddenly pretend he can’t find info about omega oil as I posted. Funny. From one hand, this computer guru, who has, like KENDRICK SHMENDRICK a web site, is a professional programmer, and can find everything, pretends HE DOES NOT WHAT OMEGA OIL IS. I said that, and I repeat: WHOEVER present himself so much knowledgeable like KING, COLIN AND KENDRICK, and argue just about everything, and DO NOT AGREE WITH WHAT I WROTE ABOUT OMEGA OIL, THEY MUST BE STUPID, and should never write anything about asthma. Did you get it? I’ll give you, as  smart as you think you are, a clue: CNN WILL NOT MAKE ANY EFFORTS TO PROVIDE YOU ARTICLES FROM 1996. There is an organization that has 1-800, who can provide you with copies of many articles. nevertheless, IF YOU DON’T RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF OMEGA OIL IN RELATION TO ASTHMA, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO HERE. personal attacks, in cooperation with KENDRICK AND COLIN are low level. You have put yourself, together with KENDRICK AND COLIN, in the lowest level by continuing personal attacks, and by trying to obsolete important information about the asthma. You even don’t know what the element s, how it works, in fact, you know nothing. NO, TO THE GROUP: KKC (KING, KENDRICK, COLIN) continue personal attack rather then admitting the importance of OMEGA OIL, and the chance people have with  Dr’ Koder’s new process.  See WWW.INNEROUTPOST.COM/ASTHMA I spent only $30 on natural food, and within six months all my son’s asthma symptoms disappeared. that is great, and everyone must be impressed. that gives hope to everyone. After all, an asthmatic person needs 2-4 inhalers a months, and each one costs $35, that is more than $150 a month!!!!!! With insurance, that may be $60 a months, and I paid only $30 for the entire natural food for Dr. koder’s process. Now, think about this compare to the deragatory and stupid attacks by the three stooges KENDRICK, KING COLIN (KKC). WHO IS THE STUPID HERE? for personal attacks, one thing must be clear: YOU CAN’T CONTROL THIS GROUP, AND SOONER OR LATER, YOU ALL MUST BE OUT OF IT. Group, take care of your asthma, don’t fall for this stooges. Joseph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – three stooges: p.s. would it have been strange of COLIN SPELLED KOOLIN? If so, I would have written about three initials of three people: KKK: Kendrick, King, and the third one Oh look, Joe’s had to resort to racist jibes because he knows he’s lost the argument. He can’t even do that properly. How pathetic <yawns. Once upon a time, nice people participated in a news group for asthma. many of the people or their children do suffer from asthma. That was before you arrived on the group and spammed all over the place. Then you attempted to suppress all criticism of your "process". Three people decided to take over the news group: KENDRICK, COLIN and KING. Hey boys, did you hear that ? We’ve become the Asthma Cabal !!! All together, they became the master of medicine. tHEY CLAIM THEY KNOW EVERYTHING, AND THEY RESPOND TO EVERYTHING. No, we don’t. Get your facts straight. Anyway, we’re not the ones posting whopping great adverts into inappropriate threads. One idiot, like COLIn, can find information just about everything, although he is not an authorized  medical expert. I AM TALKING ABOUT JUST TECHNICAL INFO. Colin knows how to use a search engine to discover information. He can attribute it to the right people, and doesn’t make false claims about what he’s found, unlike you. NOW, THIS IDIOT, argue with me about OMEGA OIL, and CNN and the Feb. 6, 1996 announcement by most of the news agencies that: "OMEGA OIL FOUND IN FISH REDUCES ASTHMA ATTACKS IN CHILDREN". he now asked me via another subject "where is the article?" I can’t find it either Joe. Please tell us where you found that article. We want FACTS, which you’re not prepared to provide – yet you keep whining that we’re "not looking at the facts". Stop sitting on the fence and give us some PROPER references, NO mis-quotes and NO lies. Well, idiot, from one hand you have provided so much sources of information, and now you play damn stupid guy who cant follow tons of information I provided, including names of news agencies and dates to truck the article? But CNN couldn’t find it either ! I would say that Colin now has a solid case for libel against you. Give it up, before you land yourself in any more trouble. Furthermore, that stupid, is stupid enough NOT TO AGREE WITH ME about the OMEGA OIL and its importance in fighting asthma. So, we’re stupid because we won’t line up like drooling imbeciles and buy your book ? And who the hell do you think you are, some sort of genius ? friends, we are dealing here with people who were born to harass and argue, not to help. Hypocrite. I recall one person who was harassed by COLIN, so that he left the group. Who ? Name them. By the way, trolls don’t count. And what bother me is your reaction. I call all of you to assess the information, to ask questions, and TO CALL UPON THESE THREE STOOGES to leave the group for ever. Help ! Help ! I’m being deafened by the sound of silence !!! Since some people who contacted me had problems finding [spam deleted] Let’s face facts Joe. Nobody has asked you for the info, so you’re resorting to publishing your spam yet again. I’ve had words with Primenet on this matter again, perhaps they’ll wake up and see what damage you’re doing to this group. Chris — Chris King http://www.csking.demon.co.uk

Response:

Re: INNEROUTPOST.COM/ASTHMA HE DOES NOT WHAT OMEGA OIL IS.

    This is not about your process, Joe.  It is about you.     You are an abusive spammer.     You like to call people names.     People like you are driving Usenet into the ground.     That is why people are attacking you.

Response:

[URL Deleted] OMEGA OIL AND STUPIDITY:

You said it, not me. Can’t you take a hint ? NOBODY’S INTERESTED. Chris King, one of the three stooges KKC, had posted a full page of Dr. vane, a Nobel prize winner who wrote about Omega oil.

Okay, let’s have some proper references – show me you’ve "done the science", as you keep telling everyone else to do. I can find all manner of things about Dr. Vane and aspirin, but nothing about Vane and Omega oils. Why is that, I wonder ? Is it because, say, he didn’t publish any such research ? King, an associate newsgroup with the two other stooges, KENDRICK-SHMENDRICK and CoLIN, suddenly pretend he can’t find info about omega oil as I posted.

Because your references are vague and incomplete. You haven’t even provided complete titles on some of them, which makes them conveniently difficult for other people to find. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOURSELF TO THIS GROUP, START SUPPLYING SOME HARD EVIDENCE SUPPORTING YOUR CLAIMS. ADVERTISING MATERIAL DOES NOT COUNT FOR THIS PURPOSE. Funny. From one hand, this computer guru, who has, like KENDRICK SHMENDRICK a web site, is a professional programmer, and can find everything, pretends HE DOES NOT WHAT OMEGA OIL IS.

I know what omega oil is. And it seems rather strange that you’d find such an oil in grain, when all the researchers were talking about it being a fish oil ! I said that, and I repeat: WHOEVER present himself so much knowledgeable like KING, COLIN AND KENDRICK, and argue just about everything, and DO NOT AGREE WITH WHAT I WROTE ABOUT OMEGA OIL, THEY MUST BE STUPID, and should never write anything about asthma. Did you get it?

You’re not even an asthmatic, and you’re not a medical professional. HOW THE HELL ARE YOU QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT ASTHMA ? I’ll give you, as  smart as you think you are, a clue: CNN WILL NOT MAKE ANY EFFORTS TO PROVIDE YOU ARTICLES FROM 1996. There is an organization that has 1-800, who can provide you with copies of many articles. nevertheless, IF YOU DON’T RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF OMEGA OIL IN RELATION TO ASTHMA, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO HERE.

This is alt.support.asthma, not alt.support.omega-3-oil. I’ll repeat myself again: CNN HAVE NO RECORD OF SUCH AN ARTICLE. I can find articles on the day you say the article was published, but not the one you claim supports your "process". Odd, that… personal attacks, in cooperation with KENDRICK AND COLIN are low level. You have put yourself, together with KENDRICK AND COLIN, in the lowest level

Excuse me, you’re the one making the racist jibes round here, and you’re the one who’s been questioning the mental state of your critics. Your attempts to claim the moral high ground are therefore utterly laughable. by continuing personal attacks, and by trying to obsolete important information about the asthma. You even don’t know what the element s, how it works, in fact, you know nothing.

Ok Einstein, here’s the $64,000 question: I’ve e-mailed John Britton, one of the researchers whose articles you claim support your "process". To paraphrase his reply, he stated that the study found no link between fish oils and COPD or asthma, and that later studies also found no such link. SO, HOW CAN YOU CLAIM THAT THAT PARTICULAR STUDY SUPPORTS YOUR "PROCESS" ? NO, TO THE GROUP: KKC (KING, KENDRICK, COLIN) continue personal attack rather then admitting the importance of OMEGA OIL, and the chance people have with  Dr’ Koder’s new process.  

[spam address deleted] HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF ? YOUR SITE CONTAINS FACTUAL ERRORS WHICH HAVE BEEN POINTED OUT TO YOU ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, AND STILL YOU INSIST THAT THE INFORMATION IS CORRECT. ARE YOU INCAPABLE OF EDITING YOUR WEB PAGES, OR IS IT YOUR INTENTION TO MISLEAD PEOPLE WITH YOUR ADVERTISING ? (Shouting intentional for the hard-of-understanding around here) I spent only $30 on natural food, and within six months all my son’s asthma symptoms disappeared. that is great, and everyone must be impressed. that gives hope to everyone.

No, it just lines your pocket. After all, an asthmatic person needs 2-4 inhalers a months, and each one costs $35, that is more than $150 a month!!!!!! With insurance, that may be $60 a months, and I paid only $30 for the entire natural food for Dr. koder’s process.

Aren’t you forgetting something here ? Like the cost of your book ? Now, think about this compare to the deragatory and stupid attacks by the three stooges KENDRICK, KING COLIN (KKC).

There we go again, with your childish jibes. Grow up, will you ? WHO IS THE STUPID HERE?

Rhetorical question. I hope some day that you’ll look back on all the garbage you’ve posted in this NG, and regret it. Somehow, I doubt that will happen, given your track record with Prodigy and AOL. for personal attacks, one thing must be clear: YOU CAN’T CONTROL THIS GROUP, AND SOONER OR LATER, YOU ALL MUST BE OUT OF IT.

You’re not going to hound me out of this group, spam-boy. Group, take care of your asthma, don’t fall for this stooges.

Keep on posting this junk Joe. It totally blows away any chance of you bringing a libel case, and we all need a good laugh… Chris — Chris King                    | Joetov FAQ: http://www.kendrick.org/joetov.htm http://www.csking.demon.co.uk | http://www.csking.demon.co.uk/kooks/joetov.htm

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