Posts belonging to Category 'children's asthma treatment'

Pnuemonia and bronchial asthma ?

Question:

iron

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MPFTPPW837270.1905787037%40anonym ous.poster&output=gplain

Response:

A search of asthma and / or pneumonia will bring up the articles.

Many of which have nothing to do with asthma. If asthma were caused by a simple iron deficiency it would have been cured decades ago. "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise." General Colin Powell

Response:

A search of asthma and / or pneumonia will bring up the articles. Many of which have nothing to do with asthma. If asthma were caused by a simple iron deficiency it would have been cured decades ago.

Excess iron .. too much iron .. The iron found in meat is different from the iron found in vegetables / plants in that it is bound chemically to ‘heme’. The body controls the amount of iron it has in it by absorption and has no effective method of excreting it once it gets in. This article SHOWS that the iron in the body increases slowly but surely and is directly related to the amount of meat we eat. Eur J Haematol 2001 Feb;66(2):115-25 Iron status markers in 224 indigenous Greenlanders: influence of age, residence and traditional foods. Milman N, Byg KE, Mulvad G, Pedersen HS, Bjerregaard P Department of Medicine, Naestved Hospital, Naestved, Denmark. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate iron status in indigenous Greenlanders and its relationship to gender, age and intake of traditional Greenlandic foods. Methods: Serum ferritin, serum transferrin saturation and haemoglobin were evaluated in a population survey in 1993-1994 comprising 224 Greenlandic individuals (109 men) aged 19-82 yr. The participants were residents in the capital Nuuk (n=73) with a predominantly Western style of living, the town Ilulissat (n=60) with a mixture of Western and Greenlandic style of living, and the small town Uummannaq (n=91) with a predominantly Greenlandic style of living. Consumption of traditional foods was assessed by questionnaire. RESULTS: Intake of traditional foods was more prevalent among elderly than among young individuals and more frequent in Uummannaq than in Ilulissat and Nuuk. Ferritin levels were higher in men than in women (p<0.0001). Median ferritin levels were lowest in Nuuk (men, 92 microg/L; women, 40 microg/L), higher in Ilulissat (men, 104 microg/L; women, 69 microg/L) and in Uummannaq (men, 118 microg/L; women, 46 microg/L) (p<0.001). The prevalence of iron load (ferritin 200 microg/L) was lowest in Nuuk (men: 13.8%, women: 2.3%) intermediate in Ilulissat (men, 11.1%; women, 9.1%) and highest in Uummannaq (men, 32.1%; women, 21.1%). The prevalence of iron depletion (ferritin <16 microg/L) was high in Nuuk (men, 0%; women, 20.5%), and lower in Ilulissat (men, 3.7%; women, 6.1%) and in Uummannaq (men, 0%; women, 10.5%). The prevalence of iron deficiency anaemia (ferritin <13 microg/L and Hb <5th percentile for iron-replete men and women) was 0.92% in men and 0.87% in women. Correlations between age and ferritin were lowest in Nuuk (men, r(s)=0.26, p=0.2; women, r(s)=0.50, p=0.001) intermediary in Ilulissat (men, r(s)=0.37, p=0.06; women, r(s)=0.73, p<0.0001) and highest in Uummannaq (men, r(s)=0.59, p<0.0001; women, rs=0.74, p<0.0001). Intake of traditional foods was correlated with ferritin in men (r(s)=0.29, p=0.01) and women (r(s)=0.40, p<0.0001). CONCLUSION: The observed differences in estimated body iron stores in Greenlanders from the three residential areas can be explained by differences in the dietary intake of haem iron. PMID: 11168519, UI: 21099797 Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

Is there a connection between the two ? I’ve had a history of pnuemonia which the 5-6 times I’ve had it,it was resolved with medications and bedrest.However last year I was diagnosed with asthma,which mainly flares up with over exertion.My doctor stated that it is "very probable" my history of pnuemonia is related to my asthma of today.Someone told me also that pnuemonia eventually leads to asthma…..has anyone else heard of this too ?? Thanks for your input. Richard

They have shown pneumonia NEEDS iron to survive .. They have also shown when the body has an increased ‘transferrin saturation’.. meaning higher iron levels .. one is more prone to an asthma attack. So .. the connection would be increased iron levels in the body. http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/diseaselist.html A search of asthma and / or pneumonia will bring up the articles. Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

There is evidence that lung infections like pneumonia and acute bronchitis may cause lung damage resulting in adult onset asthma. Link: http://www.aafp.org/afp/980315ap/hueston.html "Possible Complication of Bronchitis: Adult-Onset Asthma Serologic evidence of previous infection with C. pneumoniae has been found in some adults with new-onset asthma.36 Consequently, considerable attention has been focused on whether adult-onset asthma is frequently preceded by a chlamydial respiratory infection.11,12 Both Chlamydia trachomatis37 and C. pneumoniae38 have been cultured from the sputum of children with asthma. However, no prevalence studies have assessed the frequency with which patients who have respiratory illnesses such as bronchitis are infected with Chlamydia species and the percentage of these patients who progress to asthma. While this evidence is still preliminary, it suggests that early treatment of persistent wheezing with agents effective against Chlamydia species may prevent the development of asthmatic symptoms in adults.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You think you actually NEED a chemistry class to repeat things KNOWN by every iron researcher in the world? Apparently you do. Maybe a little more understanding and a little less repeating would help. Look .. doc .. there are MANY people who post here .. and if you don’t want to HEAR .. repeats .. do what everyone else does .. killfile me .. You know CBI – I think that he does not have a clue as to what we are talking about. (And the physical impossibility we spotted in his statement.)

I suspect that is but one of a long list. — CBI, MD

Response:

I have chronic asthma and used to get pneumonia every winter until I got the pneumonia shots (have had two). Now I only get pneumonia every OTHER year.

Response:

I have chronic asthma and used to get pneumonia every winter until I got the pneumonia shots (have had two). Now I only get pneumonia every OTHER year.

In the human body there is a natural antibiotic .. lactoferrin . It is present in all the slime in our bodies. It is the bodies PRIME defense in the fight of infection. When this lactoferrin becomes ’saturated’ it becomes useless and is unable to function . Lactoferrin acts by removing iron from the invader. This articles speaks to pneumonia .. and what an added iron chelator can do. Lactoferrin as I said is an iron .. chelator. Antimicrob Agents Chemother 2001 Dec;45(12):3560-5 Action of deferoxamine against Pneumocystis carinii. Clarkson AB Jr, Turkel-Parrella D, Williams JH, Chen LC, Gordon T, Merali S Department of Medical and Molecular Parasitology, New York University We found earlier that deferoxamine (DFO), a drug used for treatment of iron overload, is active against a rat model of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP). We had assumed a mode of action by deprivation of nutritional iron; however, data here show that DFO penetrates P. carinii, causing irreversible damage, thus indicating a different mode of action. Penetration was demonstrated by showing DFO uptake by high-pressure liquid chromatography analysis. By using calcein-AM as an indicator, exposure to DFO was shown to cause a reduction in P. carinii cytoplasmic free iron. Exposure to or=100 microM DFO for or=8 h in vitro caused growth to cease and cell numbers to decline over several days. This direct and irreversible damage to P. carinii led to the prediction that infrequent delivery of DFO to the lungs via an aerosol would be an effective treatment in the animal model of PCP. This prediction was confirmed by demonstrating that a once-a-week aerosol treatment of rats was 100% effective both as a prophylactic and as a curative treatment in a rat model of PCP. PMID: 11709340, UI: 21565748 Save the above report in [Macintosh] [Text] format Order documents on this page through Loansome Doc H. pylori is a common cause of gastric problems .. controlled .. by lactoferrin. Aspergillosis and pseudomonas .. are both iron dependent. When there is too much iron in the body the lactoferrin is ALWAYS saturated and as I said previously .. when this happens .. saturation .. the lactoferrin becomes .. useless. Cystic fibrosis sufferers are plagued by chronic infection .. and coincidentally? .. the lungs of CF patients are chock full of .. iron. Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have chronic asthma and used to get pneumonia every winter until I got the pneumonia shots (have had two). Now I only get pneumonia every OTHER year. In the human body there is a natural antibiotic .. lactoferrin . It is present in all the slime in our bodies. It is the bodies PRIME defense in the fight of infection. When this lactoferrin becomes ’saturated’ it becomes useless and is unable to function . Lactoferrin acts by removing iron from the invader. This articles speaks to pneumonia .. and what an added iron chelator can do. Lactoferrin as I said is an iron .. chelator.

And exactly what assistance is this supposed to provide? Is this treatment safe for humans? Or can it cause more harm than good? Can _you_ answer that question? And if not, why are you recommending it to others? "With Confidence in our Armed Forces – with the determination of our people – we will gain the inevitable triumph – so help us god." Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

And exactly what assistance is this supposed to provide? Is this treatment safe for humans? Or can it cause more harm than good?

What treatment? Unsaturating your lactoferrin? Yes it is .. Can _you_ answer that question? And if not, why are you recommending it to others?

See above … Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

And exactly what assistance is this supposed to provide? Is this treatment safe for humans? Or can it cause more harm than good? What treatment? Unsaturating your lactoferrin? Yes it is ..

Then please explain why you posted an article you obviously do not understand to this NG. "With Confidence in our Armed Forces – with the determination of our people – we will gain the inevitable triumph – so help us god." Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

That the element ‘Iron’ is somehow different if it is found in a plant than if it is found in other places. What part of ‘bound chemically to heme’.. don’t you understand ..?

Not the point. And even if it were – Iron is still Iron. "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise." General Colin Powell

Response:

You think you actually NEED a chemistry class to repeat things KNOWN by every iron researcher in the world? Apparently you do. Maybe a little more understanding and a little less repeating would help. Look .. doc .. there are MANY people who post here .. and if you don’t want to HEAR .. repeats .. do what everyone else does .. killfile me .. Then you will be spared ..

First – read my post again. It may help if you first read your quoted text. I was not referring to the "repeats" you think I was. Second – I killfiled you long ago. Your post came to my attention through Colin’s reply to you. — CBI, MD

Response:

The iron found in meat is different from the iron found in vegetables / plants in that it is bound chemically to ‘heme’. The body controls the amount of iron it has in it by absorption and has no effective method of excreting it once it gets in. Have you _ever_ had a chemistry class? Exactly what is this supposed to mean .. ? You think you actually NEED a chemistry class to repeat things KNOWN by every iron researcher in the world?

Apparently you do. Maybe a little more understanding and a little less repeating would help. — CBI, MD

Response:

Look .. doc .. there are MANY people who post here .. and if you don’t want to HEAR .. repeats .. do what everyone else does .. killfile me .. Then you will be spared .. Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

That the element ‘Iron’ is somehow different if it is found in a plant than if it is found in other places. You think you actually NEED a chemistry class to repeat things KNOWN by every iron researcher in the world?

So, I take it that you have never had a class in chemistry? "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise." General Colin Powell

Response:

You know CBI – I think that he does not have a clue as to what we are talking about. (And the physical impossibility we spotted in his statement.) "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise." General Colin Powell

Response:

The iron found in meat is different from the iron found in vegetables / plants in that it is bound chemically to ‘heme’. The body controls the amount of iron it has in it by absorption and has no effective method of excreting it once it gets in. Have you _ever_ had a chemistry class? Exactly what is this supposed to mean .. ? That the element ‘Iron’ is somehow different if it is found in a plant than if it is found in other places.

What part of ‘bound chemically to heme’.. don’t you understand ..? Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The iron found in meat is different from the iron found in vegetables / plants in that it is bound chemically to ‘heme’. The body controls the amount of iron it has in it by absorption and has no effective method of excreting it once it gets in. Have you _ever_ had a chemistry class? Exactly what is this supposed to mean .. ? That the element ‘Iron’ is somehow different if it is found in a plant than if it is found in other places. What part of ‘bound chemically to heme’.. don’t you understand ..?

These articles show .. heme iron .. that iron found in meat .. ONLY in meat/flesh .. is not controlled. [INLINE] TEKTRAN ADAPTATION IN IRON ABSORPTION: DAILY IRON SUPPLEMENTATION DECREASES ABSORPTION EFFICIENCY OF NONHEME, BUT NOT HEME IRON, FROM FOOD AND SLIGHTLY INCREASES SERUM FERRITIN IN NORMAL VOLUNTEERS Author(s): ROUGHEAD ZAMZAM K HUNT JANET R Interpretive Summary: There are two types of iron in our diet(heme and nonheme). Although we know that the body can adapt the absorption of iron depending on its needs and how much iron is in the food, it is not clear if it handles these two types of iron differently. This iron supplementation study was designed to test for differences in adaptation of heme and nonheme iron absorption and to evaluate if iron stores change with supplementation with iron and if these changes persist once supplementation is stopped. Healthy men and women took either a daily supplement of 50 mg of iron or placebo for 12 weeks. Heme and nonheme Fe absorption from a meal of hamburger, french fries, and milk shake were measured before and after 12 weeks of supplementation. Also, serum ferritin which indicates iron stores, was measured with supplementation and 6 months after supplementation was stopped. We found that with daily iron supplementation, healthy individuals adapted to decrease their nonheme, but not heme iron absorption from food. This indicates that the body handles heme and nonheme iron differently and that there may be more control over the absorption of nonheme iron than heme iron. Also, we found a small increase in iron stores with supplementation and those who had lower iron stores tended to show more increase than those with higher iron stores. This increase in iron stores tended to persist 6 months after iron supplementation was stopped. Keywords: iron absorption bioavailability retention requirements status indices adaptation diet ferritin phytate ascorbic acid meat heme nonheme enrichment fortification supplementation Contact: USDA, ARS, GFHNRC POB 9034 GRAND FORKS ND 58201 FAX: (701)795-8220 TEKTRAN United States Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service Updated: 1999-03-04 [INLINE] TEKTRAN ADAPTATION IN IRON ABSORPTION BY MEN CONSUMING DIETS WITH HIGH OR LOW IRON BIOAVAILABILITY Author(s): HUNT JANET R ROUGHEAD ZAMZAM K Interpretive Summary: Iron absorption from food can vary 5-10 fold, depending on the ease of iron absorption, which is influenced by the form of iron in the food, and the enhancement or inhibition of iron absorption by other foods in the same meal. This ease of iron absorption is called bioavailability. Although dietary iron bioavailability substantially influences short-term measurements of iron absorption, bioavailability negligibly affects body iron stores in longer, controlled studies. This study investigated whether men fed diets with high or low iron bioavailability would adapt their iron absorption to maintain body iron stores. Iron absorption from whole diets was measured in 31 healthy men before and after 10 wk of consuming diets with high or low iron bioavailability. The high bioavailability diet contained more meat, ascorbic acid, and refined grains, in contrast with the low bioavailability diet, which contained plenty of whole grains, legumes, and tea. Two forms of iron in food are absorbed very differently. Heme iron, which is about 40% of the iron in meat, poultry, and fish, is very well absorbed. Nonheme iron, the rest of the iron in animal foods as well as in plant foods is less well absorbed. Adaptation occurred with nonheme, but not heme iron absorption. Iron absorption from the high bioavailability diet decreased significantly from about 1 to 0.7 mg/d and from the low bioavailability diet increased significantly from 0.12 to 0.17 mg/d in 10 wk. Blood indicators of iron nutrition were not affected, but fecal ferritin, a measure of intestinal adaptation, was significantly affected. In conclusion, normal men partially adapt to dietary iron bioavailability and short-term measurements of absorption overestimate differences in iron bioavailability between diets. Keywords: iron absorption bioavailability retention requirements status indices adaptation diet ferritin phytate ascorbic acid meat heme nonheme enrichment fortification supplementation Contact: USDA, ARS, GFHNRC POB 9034 GRAND FORKS ND 58201 FAX: (701)795-8220 TEKTRAN United States Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service Updated: 1999-05-11 This is from the NIH site .. and as evidenced .. the body is KNOWN to control the iron it has .. by absorption and has NO EFFECTIVE METHOD to excrete the iron once it gets past the gut. BIOLOGY OF IRON Iron is indispensable for life, exerting its function either in the form of non – heme iron-containing proteins or as the iron-protoporphyrin complex of heme proteins. Iron-containing proteins catalyze many essential reactions of energy metabolism. Most of the iron in the body is located in the erythron, defined a s the totality of all erythroid elements at all sites of the body, including the marrow, circulation, and the extravascular space. The main pathway of internal iron flux is unidirectional, from transferrin (the predominant iron carrier) to the erythron, to the monocyte-macrophage system and back to plasma transferrin. Iron is cycled very efficiently from recently destroyed erythrocytes to newly formed erythrocytes. Under physiologic conditions the body is in iron balance. Because humans are unable to excrete excess iron, balance is regulated through the control of iron absorption, mainly by the cells of the intestinal mucosa. Mucosal iron absorption is influenced principally by the amount of stored iron and by the level of erythropoietic activity. Iron overload arises when the amount of iron entering the body exceeds the amou nt lost over a sustained period of time. Iron overload develops when the regulato ry function of the intestinal absorption is altered, as in hereditary hemochromatosis, or when absorption is circumvented, as in transfusional iron overload. The identification in late 1996 of the gene responsible for most hereditary hemochromatosis represents a major breakthrough, and creates a stron g impetus for substantial advances in the understanding at the molecular level of the mechanisms of iron transport and the cellular regulation of iron metabolism Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A search of asthma and / or pneumonia will bring up the articles. Many of which have nothing to do with asthma. If asthma were caused by a simple iron deficiency it would have been cured decades ago. Excess iron .. too much iron .. The iron found in meat is different from the iron found in vegetables / plants in that it is bound chemically to ‘heme’. The body controls the amount of iron it has in it by absorption and has no effective method of excreting it once it gets in.

Have you _ever_ had a chemistry class? "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise." General Colin Powell

Response:

Exactly what is this supposed to mean .. ? You think you actually NEED a chemistry class to repeat things KNOWN by every iron researcher in the world? Either bone up .. or S.T.F.A.F.M .. dig? Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

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update

Question:

Hi all. Sorry to see the newsgroup is still in such sad shape. It really used to be a good virtual place, and it’s a shame that it’s turned into — well, you know. I’ve been taking desipramine. It was working quite well (although I still need buprenorphine from time to time), but when I had the serum level tested it was 600 ng/mL (i.e., risky). This indicates poor metabolism, due either to enzyme deficiency or to a pharmacokinetic interaction with something else I’m taking (seems unlikely, but not impossible). Right now I’m sort of in flux as to what happens with the desipramine. I’ve reduced my dose, and it doesn’t seem to be working as well as it was. I hope it doesn’t turn out that I need massive amounts of desipramine in order for it to work! I see my pdoc on Tuesday and hopefully we’ll be able to figure something out. ETF and I are still together, and although life has thrown some difficult situations at us, we’re managing to do well. He’s been very supportive. A note to Eric: I visit NC from time to time, if you’d like to meet in person. I bet that each of us would be surprised to find out what the other is really like. <g -elizabeth

Response:

<< Hi all. Sorry to see the newsgroup is still in such sad shape. It really used to be a good virtual place, and it’s a shame that it’s turned into — well, you know. I’ve been taking desipramine. It was working quite well (although I still need buprenorphine from time to time), but when I had the serum level tested it was 600 ng/mL (i.e., risky). This indicates poor metabolism, due either to enzyme deficiency or to a pharmacokinetic interaction with something else I’m taking (seems unlikely, but not impossible). Right now I’m sort of in flux as to what happens with the desipramine. I’ve reduced my dose, and it doesn’t seem to be working as well as it was. I hope it doesn’t turn out that I need massive amounts of desipramine in order for it to work! I see my pdoc on Tuesday and hopefully we’ll be able to figure something out. ETF and I are still together, and although life has thrown some difficult situations at us, we’re managing to do well. He’s been very supportive. A note to Eric: I visit NC from time to time, if you’d like to meet in person. I bet that each of us would be surprised to find out what the other is really like. <g The enzyme deficiency idea is really interesting. But you dont have problems combining psychiatry meds do you? My last Pdoc told me that a good percentage of antidepressant poop out problems may in fact be due to genetic variations in different people’s drug metabolism. Like some people "burn up" the drug really fast in their liver and thus need a higher than PDR dose of the antidepressant to get a good antidepressant effect. And others are the opposite, they burn up the drug in their liver really slowly, thus they achieve a good antidepressant effect with lower amounts of the drug and are perhaps more sensitive to the antidepressant. This may account for some of the complaints some people have regarding SSRI side effects, as some people might metabolize really slowly, thus they might be more susceptible to negative drug side effects. There is an experimental research unit at the MUSC Psychiatry department in Charleston, SC which is studying all of these various problems cropping up in some individuals who take psychiatry drugs. Its made up of pharmacists and not MDs. This unit studies psychiatry drug/drug interactions, pharmacokinetics regarding psychiatry meds, genetic variations in drug metabolism, etc. etc. The link for the research unit is: http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/drug.htm As far as meeting you offline in person, yes sure I would be interested in doing that sometime. I dont agree with a lot of your ideas about these risky drugs, however I would be willing to meet you if you would like. Keep in mind that I am quite worn out right now, not feeling too great. But sure I would meet you…especially if its not too far to drive. Dont your parents live in Winston Salem? I live in the town nearby, Greensboro. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

The enzyme deficiency idea is really interesting. But you dont have problems combining psychiatry meds do you?

No, but that doesn’t mean anything. Enzyme deficiency would mean that I’m lacking in one of the enzymes that are responsible for (among other things) catalysing the metabolism of tricyclics. Cytochrome P450 2D6 is the likeliest candidate. I’ve taken a number of other medications with metabolic pathways that involve this cytochrome, of course. But none of them carried a significant risk of toxicity that would warrant monitoring of serum levels. Prozac, for example, is metabolised into norfluoxetine, and 2D6 contributes to that, but Prozac is a pretty mild, nontoxic drug so I could easily not have noticed. (Unlike some people who post to this group, I’m not particularly hypochondriacal or sensitive to drug side effects.) The only medications I can think of that I’ve taken and that required serum level monitoring were lithium (which isn’t really metabolised, since it’s just an ion) and Depakote (which is metabolised, but there are multiple pathways — it’s pretty complicated actually — and CYP2D6 isn’t involved that I know of). Enzyme deficiency would explain the peculiar reaction (apparently not dangerous, just weird) that I had to Robitussin DM one time. It would also explain why I’ve had trouble tolerating TCAs in the past. My last Pdoc told me that a good percentage of antidepressant poop out problems may in fact be due to genetic variations in different people’s drug metabolism. Like some people "burn up" the drug really fast in their liver and thus need a higher than PDR dose of the antidepressant to get a good antidepressant effect.

That would explain inefficacy and perhaps pharmacokinetic tolerance, where the drug stops working because it induces its own metabolism, as some anticonvulsants (e.g., phenobarbital) do. And others are the opposite, they burn up the drug in their liver really slowly, thus they achieve a good antidepressant effect with lower amounts of the drug and are perhaps more sensitive to the antidepressant. This may account for some of the complaints some people have regarding SSRI side effects, as some people might metabolize really slowly, thus they might be more susceptible to negative drug side effects.

I think most of the people complaining about SSRI side effects are just more sensitive ("somatically attuned," my pdoc would say) than others. Some of them might have enzyme deficiencies, although different SSRIs have different metabolic pathways. Remeron is an AD that has multiple pathways, so enzyme deficiency would have much less effect on a person taking Remeron than on one taking, say, Elavil. As far as meeting you offline in person, yes sure I would be interested in doing that sometime. I dont agree with a lot of your ideas about these risky drugs, however I would be willing to meet you if you would like.

Cool. I’m liable to be home for Christmas, possibly Thanksgiving as well. We could have lunch somewhere, maybe? I recall there being some decent cafes in W-S, and I’m sure there are some in Greensboro as well (maybe even in the vast primitive wasteland that lies between them <g). Keep in mind that I am quite worn out right now, not feeling too great. But sure I would meet you…especially if its not too far to drive. Dont your parents live in Winston Salem? I live in the town nearby, Greensboro.

Response:

psychiatry meds do you? No, but that doesn’t mean anything. Enzyme deficiency would mean that I’m lacking in one of the enzymes that are responsible for (among other things) catalysing the metabolism of tricyclics. Cytochrome P450 2D6 is the likeliest candidate.

I share that weakness in this enzyme, Elizabeth. I found a website that suggested that there is a 160-fold range of activity in this enzyme across the population. I’ve learned to be very careful of what I take, particularly combinations. Regards, Larry

Response:

<< No, but that doesn’t mean anything. Enzyme deficiency would mean that I’m lacking in one of the enzymes that are responsible for (among other things) catalysing the metabolism of tricyclics. Cytochrome P450 2D6 is the likeliest candidate. I’ve taken a number of other medications with metabolic pathways that involve this cytochrome, of course. But none of them carried a significant risk of toxicity that would warrant monitoring of serum levels. Prozac, for example, is metabolised into norfluoxetine, and 2D6 contributes to that, but Prozac is a pretty mild, nontoxic drug so I could easily not have noticed. (Unlike some people who post to this group, I’m not particularly hypochondriacal or sensitive to drug side effects.) The only medications I can think of that I’ve taken and that required serum level monitoring were lithium (which isn’t really metabolised, since it’s just an ion) and Depakote (which is metabolised, but there are multiple pathways — it’s pretty complicated actually — and CYP2D6 isn’t involved that I know of). Enzyme deficiency would explain the peculiar reaction (apparently not dangerous, just weird) that I had to Robitussin DM one time. It would also explain why I’ve had trouble tolerating TCAs in the past. My last Pdoc told me that a good percentage of antidepressant poop out problems may in fact be due to genetic variations in different people’s drug metabolism. Like some people "burn up" the drug really fast in their liver and thus need a higher than PDR dose of the antidepressant to get a good antidepressant effect.

Yes, my parents live in W-S (my sister’s at NYU now). I understand about being worn-out and feeling down, believe me. Although I’ve been doing much better lately, so there’s hope, right? -elizabeth Hi Elizabeth, yes I am quite worn out these days. Like in some ways physically sick. I just saw my old Pdoc…first Pdoc I had seen since I got discharged from the hospital. He switched me at my request over to Zoloft which I just started. Ive been on Zoloft before, all the way up to the max. Lately my BP has been spiking towards high normal and Ive even been having some mild fluid retention around my feet I suppose due to the BP meds…I have been checked out for heart problems and my heart is very healthy. I go back to the GP doc soon, supposedly Im gonna get put on a diuretic (water pill) to deal with the fluid retention. Its pretty demoralizing to have this happening at only 32 years old. Im also going on Seroquel soon. I actually asked for it this time…this time I actually want the atypical anti-psychotics. Things have changed for me. I find that with the BP med the SSRIs just dont work as good, so I need that atypical anti-psychotic to activate the SSRI better. I havent started the Seroquel yet but Im starting that soon, after I get the fluid retention thing fixed. My current Pdoc says that he believes the dx this guy who hospitalized me in Feb was pretty extreme. This guy says he believes that I was probably "susceptible" to hypertension before the MAOI and there is probably truth to that. He told me that he believes the MAOI triggered me into "essential hypertension." And he said that this last Pdoc’s assessment of me as far as having somatic delusions is quite extreme…he didnt agree with it. He said that somatic delusions would be more like youd be smelling things, bugs would be crawling over me…Ive never had anything like that before. He had a term for it…somatic something or other I cant remember but it wasnt delusions or psychosis. He did suggest getting the inkblot test done to rule out psychosis though. He told me that a lot of my problem may not be so much psychosis but my personality which is very direct and kind of abrasive…he said I have to "be in control." I told him I figured I am now psychotic, that I have psychotic depression. But I might just skip the test and get on the atypicals soon as its the only thing that really activates the SSRIs for me. As far as meeting you around Christmas or Thanksgiving, yeah sure I would be up for that. Hopefully I will be feeling better by then. If you want we could talk on the phone ahead of time, if you ever want my number just send me an Email and I will give it to you. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

<< I share that weakness in this enzyme, Elizabeth. I found a website that suggested that there is a 160-fold range of activity in this enzyme across the population. I’ve learned to be very careful of what I take, particularly combinations. Yeah, I have found that I absolutely cannot tolerate any anti-psychotic that uses 2D6 combined with an antidepressant..any antidepressant. The only anti-psychotic Ive been able to halfway tolerate is Seroquel, which uses 3A4 and not 2D6. Oddly though, I can tolerate any anti-psychotic by itself just fine…even if it uses 2D6. My last Pdoc said that these drugs might be competing for metabolism and my genetic makeup doesnt allow it. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

If either of you go near Fayetteville let me know….. bunnyfire – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cool. I’m liable to be home for Christmas, possibly Thanksgiving as well. We could have lunch somewhere, maybe? I recall there being some decent cafes in W-S, and I’m sure there are some in Greensboro as well (maybe even in the vast primitive wasteland that lies between them <g). Keep in mind that I am quite worn out right now, not feeling too great. But sure I would meet you…especially if its not too far to drive. Dont your parents live in Winston Salem? I live in the town nearby, Greensboro. Yes, my parents live in W-S (my sister’s at NYU now). I understand about being worn-out and feeling down, believe me. Although I’ve been doing much better lately, so there’s hope, right? -elizabeth Hi Elizabeth, yes I am quite worn out these days. Like in some ways physically sick. I just saw my old Pdoc…first Pdoc I had seen since I got discharged from the hospital. He switched me at my request over to Zoloft which I just started. Ive been on Zoloft before, all the way up to the max. Lately my BP has been spiking towards high normal and Ive even been having some mild fluid retention around my feet I suppose due to the BP meds…I have been checked out for heart problems and my heart is very healthy. I go back to the GP doc soon, supposedly Im gonna get put on a diuretic (water pill) to deal with the fluid retention. Its pretty demoralizing to have this happening at only 32 years old. Im also going on Seroquel soon. I actually asked for it this time…this time I actually want the atypical anti-psychotics. Things have changed for me. I find that with the BP med the SSRIs just dont work as good, so I need that atypical anti-psychotic to activate the SSRI better. I havent started the Seroquel yet but Im starting that soon, after I get the fluid retention thing fixed. My current Pdoc says that he believes the dx this guy who hospitalized me in Feb was pretty extreme. This guy says he believes that I was probably "susceptible" to hypertension before the MAOI and there is probably truth to that. He told me that he believes the MAOI triggered me into "essential hypertension." And he said that this last Pdoc’s assessment of me as far as having somatic delusions is quite extreme…he didnt agree with it. He said that somatic delusions would be more like youd be smelling things, bugs would be crawling over me…Ive never had anything like that before. He had a term for it…somatic something or other I cant remember but it wasnt delusions or psychosis. He did suggest getting the inkblot test done to rule out psychosis though. He told me that a lot of my problem may not be so much psychosis but my personality which is very direct and kind of abrasive…he said I have to "be in control." I told him I figured I am now psychotic, that I have psychotic depression. But I might just skip the test and get on the atypicals soon as its the only thing that really activates the SSRIs for me. As far as meeting you around Christmas or Thanksgiving, yeah sure I would be up for that. Hopefully I will be feeling better by then. If you want we could talk on the phone ahead of time, if you ever want my number just send me an Email and I will give it to you. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

<< If either of you go near Fayetteville let me know….. bunnyfire Hey Connie…I get down to the Spring Lake/Pope AFB area once in a while. Sometimes I get to Fayettenam to go to this store called U.S. Calvarly to buy boots. You mentioned a pretty cool Pdoc down there once? What was his name? Dont have to mention it on the NG if you dont want. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << No, but that doesn’t mean anything. Enzyme deficiency would mean that I’m lacking in one of the enzymes that are responsible for (among other things) catalysing the metabolism of tricyclics. Cytochrome P450 2D6 is the likeliest candidate. I’ve taken a number of other medications with metabolic pathways that involve this cytochrome, of course. But none of them carried a significant risk of toxicity that would warrant monitoring of serum levels. Prozac, for example, is metabolised into norfluoxetine, and 2D6 contributes to that, but Prozac is a pretty mild, nontoxic drug so I could easily not have noticed. (Unlike some people who post to this group, I’m not particularly hypochondriacal or sensitive to drug side effects.) The only medications I can think of that I’ve taken and that required serum level monitoring were lithium (which isn’t really metabolised, since it’s just an ion) and Depakote (which is metabolised, but there are multiple pathways — it’s pretty complicated actually — and CYP2D6 isn’t involved that I know of). Enzyme deficiency would explain the peculiar reaction (apparently not dangerous, just weird) that I had to Robitussin DM one time. It would also explain why I’ve had trouble tolerating TCAs in the past. My last Pdoc told me that a good percentage of antidepressant poop out problems may in fact be due to genetic variations in different people’s drug metabolism. Like some people "burn up" the drug really fast in their liver and thus need a higher than PDR dose of the antidepressant to get a good antidepressant effect. That would explain inefficacy and perhaps pharmacokinetic tolerance, where the drug stops working because it induces its own metabolism, as some anticonvulsants (e.g., phenobarbital) do. And others are the opposite, they burn up the drug in their liver really slowly, thus they achieve a good antidepressant effect with lower amounts of the drug and are perhaps more sensitive to the antidepressant. This may account for some of the complaints some people have regarding SSRI side effects, as some people might metabolize really slowly, thus they might be more susceptible to negative drug side effects. I think most of the people complaining about SSRI side effects are just more sensitive ("somatically attuned," my pdoc would say) than others. Some of them might have enzyme deficiencies, although different SSRIs have different metabolic pathways. Remeron is an AD that has multiple pathways, so enzyme deficiency would have much less effect on a person taking Remeron than on one taking, say, Elavil. As far as meeting you offline in person, yes sure I would be interested in doing that sometime. I dont agree with a lot of your ideas about these risky drugs, however I would be willing to meet you if you would like. Cool. I’m liable to be home for Christmas, possibly Thanksgiving as well. We could have lunch somewhere, maybe? I recall there being some decent cafes in W-S, and I’m sure there are some in Greensboro as well (maybe even in the vast primitive wasteland that lies between them <g). Keep in mind that I am quite worn out right now, not feeling too great. But sure I would meet you…especially if its not too far to drive. Dont your parents live in Winston Salem? I live in the town nearby, Greensboro. Yes, my parents live in W-S (my sister’s at NYU now). I understand about being worn-out and feeling down, believe me. Although I’ve been doing much better lately, so there’s hope, right? -elizabeth Hi Elizabeth, yes I am quite worn out these days. Like in some ways physically sick. I just saw my old Pdoc…first Pdoc I had seen since I got discharged from the hospital. He switched me at my request over to Zoloft which I just started. Ive been on Zoloft before, all the way up to the max. Lately my BP has been spiking towards high normal and Ive even been having some mild fluid retention around my feet I suppose due to the BP meds…I have been checked out for heart problems and my heart is very healthy. I go back to the GP doc soon, supposedly Im gonna get put on a diuretic (water pill) to deal with the fluid retention. Its pretty demoralizing to have this happening at only 32 years old. Im also going on Seroquel soon. I actually asked for it this time…this time I actually want the atypical anti-psychotics. Things have changed for me. I find that with the BP med the SSRIs just dont work as good, so I need that atypical anti-psychotic to activate the SSRI better. I havent started the Seroquel yet but Im starting that soon, after I get the fluid retention thing fixed. My current Pdoc says that he believes the dx this guy who hospitalized me in Feb was pretty extreme. This guy says he believes that I was probably "susceptible" to hypertension before the MAOI and there is probably truth to that. He told me that he believes the MAOI triggered me into "essential hypertension." And he said that this last Pdoc’s assessment of me as far as having somatic delusions is quite extreme…he didnt agree with it. He said that somatic delusions would be more like youd be smelling things, bugs would be crawling over me…Ive never had anything like that before. He had a term for it…somatic something or other I cant remember but it wasnt delusions or psychosis. He did suggest getting the inkblot test done to rule out psychosis though. He told me that a lot of my problem may not be so much psychosis but my personality which is very direct and kind of abrasive…he said I have to "be in control." I told him I figured I am now psychotic, that I have psychotic depression. But I might just skip the test and get on the atypicals soon as its the only thing that really activates the SSRIs for me. As far as meeting you around Christmas or Thanksgiving, yeah sure I would be up for that. Hopefully I will be feeling better by then. If you want we could talk on the phone ahead of time, if you ever want my number just send me an Email and I will give it to you.

Eric, I just want to mention to you that the rorschach test can be evaluated several ways, the most modern form of evaluation is the Comprehensive System developed by Exner. The rorschach is a projective test and is quite subjective. I could tell you much more, but that would reduce the theoretical fairness of the test. Good luck with the new regimen of treatment.

Response:

His name is Dr. Antonio Cusi……actually I go see him tomorrow for a Expect a bit of a wait for an appointment. The wait is worth it. He isn’t a jerk-on the contrary he has been very helpful and kind. He actually seems to care about his patients. In my experience that is a rare commodity for a pdoc. Not to mention he knows his stuff….. Cordially, bunnyfire uncle elron’s worst nightmare – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Connie…I get down to the Spring Lake/Pope AFB area once in a while. Sometimes I get to Fayettenam to go to this store called U.S. Calvarly to buy boots. You mentioned a pretty cool Pdoc down there once? What was his name? Dont have to mention it on the NG if you dont want. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

Hi Elizabeth, yes I am quite worn out these days. Like in some ways physically sick.

I understand. There have been times when I was so depressed I stopped taking care of myself at all, and I got dehydrated and my electrolytes were all screwed up and so forth. I just saw my old Pdoc…first Pdoc I had seen since I got discharged from the hospital.

Wow, then it’s been a while for you, hasn’t it? He switched me at my request over to Zoloft which I just started. Ive been on Zoloft before, all the way up to the max.

What were you on before? I wasn’t reading ASDM for a while and missed a lot of things. (Another question about something I missed: when did Linda start acting so weird? She sounds like AC or something.) Lately my BP has been spiking towards high normal and Ive even been having some mild fluid retention around my feet I suppose due to the BP meds…I have been checked out for heart problems and my heart is very healthy.

That’s good. What antihypertensive(s) are you on? Edema can be due to anything from congestive heart failure to I go back to the GP doc soon, supposedly Im gonna get put on a diuretic (water pill) to deal with the fluid retention. Its pretty demoralizing to have this happening at only 32 years

old. I was depressed when I was ten. I would have loved to get thirty years without any major chronic medical problems. And plenty of people I know developed serious problems as children (leukemia, asthma, epilepsy, etc.) or young adults around 20 (chronic pain, inflammatory bowel disease, mood and anxiety disorders, etc.). Im also going on Seroquel soon. I actually asked for it this time…this time I actually want the atypical anti-psychotics. Things have changed for me. I find that with the BP med the SSRIs just dont work as good, so I need that atypical anti-psychotic to activate the SSRI better. I havent started the Seroquel yet but Im starting that soon, after I get the fluid retention thing fixed.

Good plan: one thing at a time. Seroquel is supposed to be relatively more tolerable compared with Zyprexa and Risperdal. I found it less sedating than the others (too bad I was trying to use it for insomnia!). My current Pdoc says that he believes the dx this guy who hospitalized me in Feb was pretty extreme. This guy says he believes that I was probably "susceptible" to hypertension before the MAOI and there is probably truth to that. He told me that he believes the MAOI triggered me into "essential hypertension." And he said that this last Pdoc’s assessment of me as far as having somatic delusions is quite extreme…he didnt agree with it. He said that somatic delusions would be more like youd be smelling things, bugs would be crawling over me…Ive never had anything like that before. He had a term for it…somatic something or other I cant remember but it wasnt delusions or psychosis.

Could it have been somatoform disorder or somatization disorder, maybe? He did suggest getting the inkblot test done to rule out psychosis though. He told me that a lot of my problem may not be so much psychosis but my personality which is very direct and kind of abrasive…he said I have to "be in control." I told him I figured I am now psychotic, that I have psychotic depression. But I might just skip the test and get on the atypicals soon as its the only thing that really activates the SSRIs for me.

I think the Rorschach test is pretty bogus, myself. I sure wouldn’t trust it as a tool to test for psychosis! It’s pretty much a psychoanalytic instrument; there’s no theoretical basis for why it would work, and empirical evidence that it even does work is pretty sketchy. My suggestion is, focus on treatment, not on diagnosis. You don’t have to be psychotic for antipsychotic drugs to work. As far as meeting you around Christmas or Thanksgiving, yeah sure I would be up for that. Hopefully I will be feeling better by then. If you want we could talk on the phone ahead of time, if you ever want my number just send me an Email and I will give it to you.

Okay. I’ll do that once I know what my plans are. -elizabeth

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Elizabeth, yes I am quite worn out these days. Like in some ways physically sick. I understand. There have been times when I was so depressed I stopped taking care of myself at all, and I got dehydrated and my electrolytes were all screwed up and so forth. I just saw my old Pdoc…first Pdoc I had seen since I got discharged from the hospital. Wow, then it’s been a while for you, hasn’t it? He switched me at my request over to Zoloft which I just started. Ive been on Zoloft before, all the way up to the max. What were you on before? I wasn’t reading ASDM for a while and missed a lot of things. (Another question about something I missed: when did Linda start acting so weird? She sounds like AC or something.) I was on Luvox. I had to switch because Luvox is not formulary at my insurance company. As far as Linda acting weird, she has been acting weird for several months now…seems like since the Spring. I dont know whats wrong with her. Lately my BP has been spiking towards high normal and Ive even been having some mild fluid retention around my feet I suppose due to the BP meds…I have been checked out for heart problems and my heart is very healthy. That’s good. What antihypertensive(s) are you on? Edema can be due to anything from congestive heart failure to An ACE Inhibitor called Prinivil. Its the only way I can remotely tolerate antidepressants anymore…weird how before BP I could take them in high doses with absolutely no problems. The edema my GP doctor said is from the BP med…he said its probably screwing around with my electrolytes making me retain fluid. My heart is 100% fine…they gave me heart tests, EKGs, cardio stress tests, etc. Im going to have to call my GP doc back and get him to call me in a diuretic I think. This totally sucks. I go back to the GP doc soon, supposedly Im gonna get put on a diuretic (water pill) to deal with the fluid retention. Its pretty demoralizing to have this happening at only 32 years old. I was depressed when I was ten. I would have loved to get thirty years without any major chronic medical problems. And plenty of people I know developed serious problems as children (leukemia, asthma, epilepsy, etc.) or young adults around 20 (chronic pain, inflammatory bowel disease, mood and anxiety disorders, etc.). Yes, it would be nice to have good health for a change. My health has been bad since age 29 when I first got hit by major depression. I doubt I will live very long the way Im going…just from degenerative disease…things snowball. One thing seems to lead to another. Im also going on Seroquel soon. I actually asked for it this time…this time I actually want the atypical anti-psychotics. Things have changed for me. I find that with the BP med the SSRIs just dont work as good, so I need that atypical anti-psychotic to activate the SSRI better. I havent started the Seroquel yet but Im starting that soon, after I get the fluid retention thing fixed. Good plan: one thing at a time. Seroquel is supposed to be relatively more tolerable compared with Zyprexa and Risperdal. I found it less sedating than the others (too bad I was trying to use it for insomnia!). My current Pdoc says that he believes the dx this guy who hospitalized me in Feb was pretty extreme. This guy says he believes that I was probably "susceptible" to hypertension before the MAOI and there is probably truth to that. He told me that he believes the MAOI triggered me into "essential hypertension." And he said that this last Pdoc’s assessment of me as far as having somatic delusions is quite extreme…he didnt agree with it. He said that somatic delusions would be more like youd be smelling things, bugs would be crawling over me…Ive never had anything like that before. He had a term for it…somatic something or other I cant remember but it wasnt delusions or psychosis. Could it have been somatoform disorder or somatization disorder, maybe? I dont know…somatic something or other. He did suggest getting the inkblot test done to rule out psychosis though. He told me that a lot of my problem may not be so much psychosis but my personality which is very direct and kind of abrasive…he said I have to "be in control." I told him I figured I am now psychotic, that I have psychotic depression. But I might just skip the test and get on the atypicals soon as its the only thing that really activates the SSRIs for me. I think the Rorschach test is pretty bogus, myself. I sure wouldn’t trust it as a tool to test for psychosis! It’s pretty much a psychoanalytic instrument; there’s no theoretical basis for why it would work, and empirical evidence that it even does work is pretty sketchy. My suggestion is, focus on treatment, not on diagnosis. You don’t have to be psychotic for antipsychotic drugs to work. Yeah, lately Ive kinda decided Im not gonna bother with the inkblot test shit. Its psychology based and I dont trust anything psychology based. I already think Im probably psychotic so it doesnt really matter anyway. Fuck it I dont really care anyway. As far as meeting you around Christmas or Thanksgiving, yeah sure I would be up for that. Hopefully I will be feeling better by then. If you want we could talk on the phone ahead of time, if you ever want my number just send me an Email and I will give it to you. Okay. I’ll do that once I know what my plans are. OK, the phone thing I just suggested because every person Ive ever met offline before I talked to them on the phone first. I really cant imagine meeting someone offline without talking on the phone first. But its not a requirement or anything. I like going out to eat. I quit the NG BTW. I couldnt stand this fucking place anymore the way I have been feeling lately. Its become more of a freak board than anything else. I will probably return if I ever feel better again.

Yeah….about the circus atmosphere…being hard to take…but its a sign of health you choose not to participate when its so bad as its been… Best you take care of yourself and what you need to do to do that right now… Unless the pdocs are telling you you are psychotic, its not a good thing to keep saying you are yourself…actually a bad thing if you really aren’t…cause the things you internalize, or tell yourself about yourself can become self fulfilling prophecies… even thine enemies never suggested you are psychotic Eric! .as always you know you are among those welcome to email me anytime… . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – take care, Eric -elizabeth

Response:

Well, I went to Minneapolis for the week of the 4th and a big family get-together. We all had a wonderful time and I used up all my pain meds and I don’t see the doc til Friday, so I’m paying big time now. Still worthwhile. Went to the Science Museum and the Degas exhibit at the Art Museum and the fireworks. had a big meal every night. Learned how to make rhubarb pizza. Drank my Dad’s beer (he’s fallen in love with a book about Clone Brews, tries to duplicate brands he likes just to prove he can). Only bad time was one night I tried to drink beer right after taking oxycodone. I can’t do that. Jon Miller

Response:

Jon can i have your recipe for rhubarb pizza…it sound gross to me actually but the man loves both rhubarb and pizza. love, catherine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I went to Minneapolis for the week of the 4th and a big family get-together. We all had a wonderful time and I used up all my pain meds and I don’t see the doc til Friday, so I’m paying big time now. Still worthwhile. Went to the Science Museum and the Degas exhibit at the Art Museum and the fireworks. had a big meal every night. Learned how to make rhubarb pizza. Drank my Dad’s beer (he’s fallen in love with a book about Clone Brews, tries to duplicate brands he likes just to prove he can). Only bad time was one night I tried to drink beer right after taking oxycodone. I can’t do that. Jon Miller

Response:

Jon, Glad you had a good 4th with family and friends but sorry you ran out of your meds! Bummer ( I am sure the R& R helped you though as your post sounded most upbeat. Welcome back home! love, deb:))

Response:

Hi John! Too bad I didn’t know you were comming….I’d have gotten in touch! I live just north of Minneapolis, about 60 miles. Where do you normally hail from, then? I wish I could go to see the Degas exhibit….no one else in my family is into art as much as me, so I have to wait till I find someone to go with. My family does love the Science Museum, though…and we go at least once or twice a year. Glad you enjoyed your visit. So, your dad is into Beer, huh? My brother-in-law is also into it, too…lots of different kinds to try when the family gets together. He has a small room that he calls his brewery….Unfortunately, since I started taking Methadone, it just doesn’t taste right to me…cant even finish one bottle! I grew up on beer, being born to a German family….oh, well, perhaps someday, I’ll be able to tolerate it again. For now, its okay not liking it, since my pain doc made me sign an agreement not to drink at all, anyhow. Well, sorry to have written so much drivel…I’m just bored, I guess. Too bad about using all your meds…hope you can find a way to get by…I know how tough it can be. Take care, Trailingvine Well, I went to Minneapolis for the week of the 4th and a big family get-together. We all had a wonderful time and I used up all my pain meds and I don’t see the doc til Friday, so I’m paying big time now. Still worthwhile. Went to the Science Museum and the Degas exhibit at the Art Museum and the fireworks. had a big meal every night. Learned how to make rhubarb pizza. Drank my Dad’s beer (he’s fallen in love with a book about Clone Brews, tries to duplicate brands he likes just to prove he can). Only bad time was one night I tried to drink beer right after taking oxycodone. I can’t do that. Jon Miller

"To live happily is an inward power of the soul." Marcus Aurelius

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jon can i have your recipe for rhubarb pizza…it sound gross to me actually but the man loves both rhubarb and pizza. love, catherine Well, I went to Minneapolis for the week of the 4th and a big family get-together. We all had a wonderful time and I used up all my pain meds and I don’t see the doc til Friday, so I’m paying big time now. Still worthwhile. Went to the Science Museum and the Degas exhibit at the Art Museum and the fireworks. had a big meal every night. Learned how to make rhubarb pizza. Drank my Dad’s beer (he’s fallen in love with a book about Clone Brews, tries to duplicate brands he likes just to prove he can). Only bad time was one night I tried to drink beer right after taking oxycodone. I can’t do that.

I don’t drink beer, so I don’t know how I’d be with that plus the Oxy. But I do on occasion drink Baileys – I find that the only thing Oxy does is enhance the affect. Baileys with milk and a dollop of ice-cream is lovely — Katharine S. spamblock in action

Response:

saw the lawyer today was told that the results of the I.M.E doctor report says no physical restraint again i work with adults with mental retardation i have to be able to restrain them its part of my job so my empolyer fired me also i cant lift over 25 pounds ever again lawyer said i can go to vocational rehab anyone done that? what am i going to do im 28 yrs old married with 2 kids i have no college workman comp still has to pay me until i get empolyment any help i really need it? mike For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

Does walking pneumonia show up on a chest X-ray?

Question:

Some years back I had what I believed to be pneumonia. I went to the HMO’s version of a Dr. He listened to what I said, fumbled about with a stethoscope and prescribed some green cough syrup. During the "exam" I had to pick him up twice, and put him back on his stool. He was reeking with wine. A few hours later, it was evident that I was getting worse, so I tried again. This Dr. was at least sober, and said it was pneumonia, and gave me a suitable antibiotic, which was quite effective. Sheesh! What the hell! The HMO was Aetna. I no longer do Aetna. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." (Ellen Parr- author)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all who helped in my time of need, Thank you dearly. Ellis, Thank you for suggesting a GP. It’s been so long since I needed or seen one I had completely overlooked that option. My main health "problem" is usually a cold or flu every winter so I had my throat doc straighten it out for me each year. THIS year was a real headache. I really believe that it all stems from the flu shot (my first) I took back in December. Terrible sinusitus which I mistook for allergies which I thought were a part of getting older and then this. Yes, it was walking pneumonia and it doesn’t always show up on X-rays (but almost always with a stethoscope.) I was certain of the pneumonia after someone listed all my symptoms and defined them for me. Thing was, once the X-rays came back clear the doc said no, it wasn’t pneumonia. After a month of trying Trimox, albuterol, prednesone, guiafen, and a nasal spray all to no avail I guess he lost interest. It’s the lungs, he said so you go see a pulmanologist. The one he gave me the number to was $300 plus blood work and X-rays before he even looked at me! The secretary told me I’d be looking at about $900 for the first visit. So I tried others. A few wouldn’t even see me without insurance. They don’t come out and say that but when they come back from having you on hold they tell you the doctor won’t be able to see you until late September at the earliest. That’s when I came here looking for help, suggestions, answers, options. Not lectures on the importance of maintaining my health. I found a GP (As per Ellis) and after a check of my lungs with the stethoscope asked if I had asthma. I don’t. He prescribed a cough syrup of halotussin AC (on the bottle) which ran me $25. He then gave me a ten day supply of Biaxin (2/500mg per card, ten cards) which saved me $135. The office visit was $55. (Thank you Dr.CBI for your input) So, things are clearing up. Slowly but surely. Thank you all, Robert

Response:

OTC Robitussin might help a lot with thinning and clearing the secretions. If you get the "DM" variety it will also help to calm the cough.

I have had excellent results with this suggestion.

Response:

OTC Robitussin might help a lot with thinning and clearing the secretions. If you get the "DM" variety it will also help to calm the cough. I have had excellent results with this suggestion.

Amen to this. I always have Robitussin on hand.

Response:

To all who helped in my time of need, Thank you dearly. Ellis, Thank you for suggesting a GP. It’s been so long since I needed or seen one I had completely overlooked that option. My main health "problem" is usually a cold or flu every winter so I had my throat doc straighten it out for me each year. THIS year was a real headache. I really believe that it all stems from the flu shot (my first) I took back in December. Terrible sinusitus which I mistook for allergies which I thought were a part of getting older and then this. Yes, it was walking pneumonia and it doesn’t always show up on X-rays (but almost always with a stethoscope.) I was certain of the pneumonia after someone listed all my symptoms and defined them for me. Thing was, once the X-rays came back clear the doc said no, it wasn’t pneumonia. After a month of trying Trimox, albuterol, prednesone, guiafen, and a nasal spray all to no avail I guess he lost interest. It’s the lungs, he said so you go see a pulmanologist. The one he gave me the number to was $300 plus blood work and X-rays before he even looked at me! The secretary told me I’d be looking at about $900 for the first visit. So I tried others. A few wouldn’t even see me without insurance. They don’t come out and say that but when they come back from having you on hold they tell you the doctor won’t be able to see you until late September at the earliest. That’s when I came here looking for help, suggestions, answers, options. Not lectures on the importance of maintaining my health. I found a GP (As per Ellis) and after a check of my lungs with the stethoscope asked if I had asthma. I don’t. He prescribed a cough syrup of halotussin AC (on the bottle) which ran me $25. He then gave me a ten day supply of Biaxin (2/500mg per card, ten cards) which saved me $135. The office visit was $55. (Thank you Dr.CBI for your input) So, things are clearing up. Slowly but surely. Thank you all, Robert

Response:

Over the winter I had a very bad case of sinusitis. The doc cleared that up and the allegro’s has been a big help. I take it every 3 or 4 days now. This dry cough in my lower lungs is driving me nuts! I have all this clear congestion in my tubes but it never clears up and I can’t break it up. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

The chronic cough could be from lingering sinus disease (possibly no more than just post nasal drip), asthma/reactive airways (either from the infection or as a new diagnosis of asthma), or from other things like GERD. If you are still having effects from the walking pneumonia it may still show up on the x-ray or it may not. The chest x-ray would also help to detect some causes of cough from pathology within the chest cavity. One cheap way out would be a trial of prednisone and inhaled bronchodilators. If it all gets better then it is probably asthma and you can be treated with inhaled steroids while waiting to see if it goes away with time, which it might if it is all still effects from the pneumonia. If it doe not get better then a trial of treating reflux and the sinus disease (more aggressively) might help to figure it out. OTC Robitussin might help a lot with thinning and clearing the secretions. If you get the "DM" variety it will also help to calm the cough. — CBI, MD

Response:

Another arrogant knucklelhead. I’d like to see what you would do with out insurance and limited financial means. I’d like to see the choices you’d make.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who asked you? I didn’t come here for a lecture. I came here for some help. You should listen and heed. Just because it may not be what you want to hear does not make it good advice. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." Einstein

Response:

Another arrogant knucklelhead. I’d like to see what you would do with out insurance and limited financial means. I’d like to see the choices you’d make.

Been there, done that. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." Einstein

Response:

Have you checked out public health clinics? Do you fall within income guidelines for Medicaid (called Medi-Cal in California)assuming you’re in the U.S. Looked in the phone book for various agencies which might be able to help you? Pride isn’t worth losing your health, no matter how healthy you say you are now. My upstairs neighbor wouldn’t get an air conditioner because he wanted his CableTV (most of the people in my bldg are on some form of Social Security, including yours truly on SSI). The management found him dead this morning in his apartment. He apparently died sometime after Friday afternoon, as near as can be told. We’ve been having a killer heat wave. Even *with* an A/C I was having a time of it. We have to pay $25 extra a month for using an A/C but it’s more than worth it to me. Mine was given to me by my daughter when she found out I’d be a week in getting a borrowed A/C from an agency. BTW he had a good pension and was a real nice guy. And now he’s gone. Nell

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another arrogant knucklelhead. I’d like to see what you would do with out insurance and limited financial means. I’d like to see the choices you’d make. Who asked you? I didn’t come here for a lecture. I came here for some help. You should listen and heed. Just because it may not be what you want to hear does not make it good advice. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." Einstein

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Another arrogant knucklelhead. I’d like to see what you would do with out insurance and limited financial means. I’d like to see the choices you’d make.

When I was there I found the money for the doctor or found a doctor that would wait for the money. Tell the doctor you finicanle problems most will try to find a way to treat you that you can afford. Gordon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." Einstein

Response:

Who asked you? I didn’t come here for a lecture. I came here for some help.

You should listen and heed. Just because it may not be what you want to hear does not make it good advice. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits." Einstein

Response:

Who asked you? I didn’t come here for a lecture. I came here for some help.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He recommended a pulmanologist but they’re very expensive and want to run tests which is fine if you have insurance but without… If your car was malfunctioning, and getting worse as the weeks went by, would you simply watch it deteriorate because you had no insurance for diagnostic and therapeutic work. If you would spend money on your car because it seems essential to your livelihood and your pleasure, would you do less with your body? If your car exhibited multiple signs of malfunction, would you go to a newsgroup for its repair? Larry

Response:

The people who have told you to go ahead and see a specialist are giving you the best possible help. Larry In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who asked you? I didn’t come here for a lecture. I came here for some help. He recommended a pulmanologist but they’re very expensive and want to run tests which is fine if you have insurance but without… If your car was malfunctioning, and getting worse as the weeks went by, would you simply watch it deteriorate because you had no insurance for diagnostic and therapeutic work. If you would spend money on your car because it seems essential to your livelihood and your pleasure, would you do less with your body? If your car exhibited multiple signs of malfunction, would you go to a newsgroup for its repair? Larry

Response:

He recommended a pulmanologist but they’re very expensive and want to run tests which is fine if you have insurance but without…

I understand. I have a $2000 insurance deductible and my visit to the pulminologist cost me over $400. But sometimes it has to be done to find the problem. Best of luck! Joan

Response:

He recommended a pulmanologist but they’re very expensive and want to run tests which is fine if you have insurance but without…

If your car was malfunctioning, and getting worse as the weeks went by, would you simply watch it deteriorate because you had no insurance for diagnostic and therapeutic work. If you would spend money on your car because it seems essential to your livelihood and your pleasure, would you do less with your body? If your car exhibited multiple signs of malfunction, would you go to a newsgroup for its repair? Larry

Response:

Ellis, Joan, Thank you again. You see, I don’t have any medical at the present time so I really can not afford a fishing expedition. I’m trying to zero in on this as much as possible. My overall health is fine, I’m 46 and I exercise regularly. I don’t believe I have any allergies other then once an angora cat had me wheezing with flu like symptoms but they cleared up once I left the house. My doctor had me on 500mgs of trimox but after 5 days I stopped since there was absolutely no change. Arbuterol seemed to help about as much as a brisk walk around the block to break up any mucus so I stopped using that. He also gave me some Prednisones this past weekend but they were ineffective also. He recommended a pulmanologist but they’re very expensive and want to run tests which is fine if you have insurance but without…yikes! Robert – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over the winter I had a very bad case of sinusitis. The doc cleared that up and the allegro’s has been a big help. I take it every 3 or 4 days now. This dry cough in my lower lungs is driving me nuts! I have all this clear congestion in my tubes but it never clears up and I can’t break it up. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have contracted walking pneumonia more than once due to dehydration from antihistamines. Make sure if you’re taking one, that you’re well hydrated. Check with a doctor to see whether it’s bronchitis, pneumonia, asthma, or something else. Joan

Response:

Thank you Ellis. Would you say I should see an allergist or a pulmonary doctor?

Pulmonologist for now. or maybe a knowledgeable GP. When I had acute bronchitis, the GP said it was caused by a virus and antibiotics wouldn’t help. Eventually one night I ended up in ER for 7 hours with severe wheezing, followed by adult onset asthma. [the bronchodilator was no longer effective, was given steroids and aminophylline by IV]. See the acute bronchitis link for more info: http://home.aafp.org/afp/980315ap/hueston.html Quoting: "Diagnosis Patients with acute bronchitis usually have a viral respiratory infection with transient inflammatory changes that produce sputum and symptoms of airway obstruction. The cough in acute bronchitis may produce either clear or purulent sputum. While this cough generally lasts seven to 10 days, it can persist. Approximately 50 percent of patients with acute bronchitis have a cough that lasts up to three weeks, and 25 percent of patients have a cough that persists for over a month.12 Physical Examination While a lung examination may be useful in patients with acute bronchitis, it is not diagnostic. Wheezing, rhonchi, a prolonged expiratory phase or other obstructive signs may be present. However, some patients may exhibit no signs of bronchospasm. Patients should be asked about night coughing, and they should undergo forced expiration in the prone position to detect wheezing. A night cough or wheezing may be the only signs that bronchial obstruction is present. Three studies32-34 have evaluated the effectiveness of bronchodilators in the treatment of acute bronchitis (Table 3). These studies all demonstrated significant relief of symptoms in patients with bronchitis who received oral albuterol (4 mg four times daily),33 inhaled albuterol (two puffs four times daily)34 or fenoterol (not available in the United States).32 Compared with patients who received placebo, those who were treated with albuterol were more likely to have stopped coughing within a week of the initiation of therapy.33,34 The patients who were treated with inhaled albuterol also returned to work sooner.33 The effects of combining albuterol with an antibiotic have also been assessed. In one of these studies,32 no benefit was shown from adding erythromycin to the treatment regimen of patients who were already receiving albuterol. Possible Complication of Bronchitis: Adult-Onset Asthma Serologic evidence of previous infection with C. pneumoniae has been found in some adults with new-onset asthma.36 Consequently, considerable attention has been focused on whether adult-onset asthma is frequently preceded by a chlamydial respiratory infection.11,12 Both Chlamydia trachomatis37 and C. pneumoniae38 have been cultured from the sputum of children with asthma. However, no prevalence studies have assessed the frequency with which patients who have respiratory illnesses such as bronchitis are infected with Chlamydia species and the percentage of these patients who progress to asthma." — Good luck, Ellis

Response:

I have contracted walking pneumonia more than once due to dehydration from antihistamines. Make sure if you’re taking one, that you’re well hydrated. Check with a doctor to see whether it’s bronchitis, pneumonia, asthma, or something else. Joan

Response:

Thank you Ellis. Would you say I should see an allergist or a pulmonary doctor? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over the winter I had a very bad case of sinusitis. The doc cleared that up and the allegro’s has been a big help. I take it every 3 or 4 days now. This dry cough in my lower lungs is driving me nuts! I have all this clear congestion in my tubes but it never clears up and I can’t break it up. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Robert PS the Xray turned up clear. Allegra is an antihistamine; if it helps, it tends to indicate you have allergies–see an allergist to identify your allergens, so you can take steps to avoid them. Singulair can be effective in controlling allergies and asthma in some. Ventolin may help control the cough; also a steroid inhaler like Pulmicort may help control bronchial inflammation. Info on pneumonia at: http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinRef/FPHandbook/Chapter03/09-3.html University of Iowa Family Practice Handbook, 3rd Edition, Chapter 3 Pulmonary Medicine: Pneumonia You may have Acute Bronchitis. See: http://home.aafp.org/afp/980315ap/hueston.html Acute Bronchitis AAFP Acute bronchitis is a lower respiratory tract infection that causes reversible bronchial inflammation. In up to 95 percent of cases, the cause is viral. While antibiotics are often prescribed for patients with acute bronchitis, little evidence shows that these agents provide significant symptomatic relief or shorten the course of the illness. In a few small studies, bronchodilators such as albuterol have been found to relieve some symptoms of acute bronchitis. Increased attention is being given to the role of Chlamydia species in acute bronchitis and adult-onset asthma. Studies in progress may help to clarify the importance of these organisms in acute bronchitis and to determine whether early treatment can prevent or ameliorate asthma. Ellis

Response:

Allegra is an antihistamine; if it helps, it tends to indicate you have allergies–see an allergist to identify your allergens, so you can take steps to avoid them. Singulair can be effective in controlling allergies and asthma in some. Ventolin may help control the cough; also a steroid inhaler like Pulmicort may help control bronchial inflammation. Info on pneumonia at: http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinRef/FPHandbook/Chapter03/09-3.html University of Iowa Family Practice Handbook, 3rd Edition, Chapter 3 Pulmonary Medicine: Pneumonia You may have Acute Bronchitis. See: http://home.aafp.org/afp/980315ap/hueston.html Acute Bronchitis AAFP Acute bronchitis is a lower respiratory tract infection that causes reversible bronchial inflammation. In up to 95 percent of cases, the cause is viral. While antibiotics are often prescribed for patients with acute bronchitis, little evidence shows that these agents provide significant symptomatic relief or shorten the course of the illness. In a few small studies, bronchodilators such as albuterol have been found to relieve some symptoms of acute bronchitis. Increased attention is being given to the role of Chlamydia species in acute bronchitis and adult-onset asthma. Studies in progress may help to clarify the importance of these organisms in acute bronchitis and to determine whether early treatment can prevent or ameliorate asthma. Ellis

Response:

Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

asthma…what is going on?

Question:

there arent as many links as it looks like…..i went in to remove some html tags and caused some sort of genetic cyber mutation in the process……(clones).

Response:

here is another one with alot of botanical info on it…(might want to pick out some and do more in-depth research) if you use the latin names as opposed to the common names when searching you generally get less commercial-oriented info….. i like to use google.com, and occasionally look at medline to see if conventional medicine is interested in whatever alt method i am researching….. http://www.ibismedical.com/bronch.html

Response:

he main side effect that we have experienced with using the albuterol is one bouncing off the wall toddler. (gets reallly hyper for hours after just a half dose) doc steve’s response to me in another thread (12/12) had some good info on the newer version of albuterol (levalbuterol). but we stopped this time after the two half doses of albuterol and he hasnt coughed in two days…..

ARE YOU KIDDING? This kid is so hyper that was my next project. The foster mom told me that the treatments put him to sleep. I found the contrary. Now that you mention i, I agree. I don’t have much to go on because I’ve only had him a few weeks. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "How sad it is to look at happiness through another man’s eyes" –Shakespeare http://www.xtravision.com/success

Response:

Put A good HEPA air cleaner, like the Austin Air Healthmate in his bedroom! Get them from us at http://www.aircleaners.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just picked up on this thread. I am in the process of adopting a child with chronic lung disease. I’ve been told that he does not have asthma, never had an attack of any sorts BUT because he was born premature with an underdeveloped lungs, so the use of INTOL is a preventative. Also when he has a cold he is given ALBUTEROL. I asked what side effects these have and I.m told "none". I never actually researched it so I can’t say for sure. Your concern now has ME concerned. If you uncover any alternatives, please pass it on. But I tell you, when he was all clogged up, a vaporizer filled with melaleuca oil made him breath much easier. I am also considering grapeseed extracts which I understand acts as an antihistamine. This is a new area for me so I’m just learning :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "How sad it is to look at happiness through another man’s eyes" –Shakespeare http://www.xtravision.com/success

Response:

gee thanks, but i already have one. nice try though…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Put A good HEPA air cleaner, like the Austin Air Healthmate in his bedroom! Get them from us at http://www.aircleaners.net I just picked up on this thread. I am in the process of adopting a child with chronic lung disease. I’ve been told that he does not have asthma, never had an attack of any sorts BUT because he was born premature with an underdeveloped lungs, so the use of INTOL is a preventative. Also when he has a cold he is given ALBUTEROL. I asked what side effects these have and I.m told "none". I never actually researched it so I can’t say for sure. Your concern now has ME concerned. If you uncover any alternatives, please pass it on. But I tell you, when he was all clogged up, a vaporizer filled with melaleuca oil made him breath much easier. I am also considering grapeseed extracts which I understand acts as an antihistamine. This is a new area for me so I’m just learning :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "How sad it is to look at happiness through another man’s eyes" –Shakespeare http://www.xtravision.com/success

– "There is no such thing as conclusive, once-and-for-all knowledge. The wise do not confuse information or data, however prodigious or cleverly deployed, with comprehensive knowledge or transcendent wisdom." – Epictetus, The Art of Living "I think that "sense of reality" must be something on the Y chromosome." nich

Response:

I just picked up on this thread. I am in the process of adopting a child with chronic lung disease. I’ve been told that he does not have asthma, never had an attack of any sorts BUT because he was born premature with an underdeveloped lungs, so the use of INTOL is a preventative. Also when he has a cold he is given ALBUTEROL. I asked what side effects these have and I.m told "none". I never actually researched it so I can’t say for sure. Your concern now has ME concerned. If you uncover any alternatives, please pass it on. But I tell you, when he was all clogged up, a vaporizer filled with melaleuca oil made him breath much easier. I am also considering grapeseed extracts which I understand acts as an antihistamine. This is a new area for me so I’m just learning

my son was premature also (5 weeks) ….he had no problems early on though. these few bouts have occured during toddlerhood. i know that underdeveloped lungs in early preemies is a biggie when it comes to respiratory problems later in life. the main side effect that we have experienced with using the albuterol is one bouncing off the wall toddler. (gets reallly hyper for hours after just a half dose) doc steve’s response to me in another thread (12/12) had some good info on the newer version of albuterol (levalbuterol). but we stopped this time after the two half doses of albuterol and he hasnt coughed in two days…..so either the albuterol did the trick or he was getting over whatever it was anyway. i have been looking into essential oils that have antiviral properties and tea tree is a biggie (along with neem)…..also for asthma/bronchial problems i have seen frankincense, clary sage, cedarwood, camphor, eucalyptus, lavender, hyssop, and more listed for use. **(there are quite a few medlines studies on antiviral/antimicrobial properties of essential oils)** oregano is an herb with a whole bunch of antiviral chemical consituents in it. (according to james duke’s phytochemical database) and garlic–of course there are lots more…i have personally recently been on a phenol/flavone kick as well–green tea and quercetin. i am starting to look into general immunology and pulmonary immunology in particular (going over long forgotten –by me anyway–the macrophages and phagocytes info that we learned about in school way back when) this (obviously due in large part to AIDS) is a booming field. although there apparently is a whole lot left to learn…….(look at how little is known about the many autoimmune disorders like MS, lupus, CFS, etc) and i am going to try to learn more about the different types of viruses that cause us to get sick with these recurring cold/flu things (i get one every year–sometimes twice per year–for the last 12 years or so, that has textbook symptoms and progression ending up with a hoarse voice, and it is extremely contagious.) i want to find out it’s name, if that is even known. cause i am gonna git that lil booger! (well, my macrophages will!) echinacea, vit C and a good multi vitamin daily have really helped lessen the severity and duration of it in the last 3 years or so…… my goal when talking about "alternatives" has always been *prevention*…..i am now on a virus-killin, anti-allergan, immune-boosting mission!!! it is amazing what one becomes obsessed with as a fairly new parent…….good luck!!! here are some conventional sites: http://webmd.lycos.com/content/dmk/dmk_article_58207 "http://www.bact.wisc.edu/Bact303/Immunology"http://www.bact.wisc.edu/Bact303/Immunology "http://www.path.ox.ac.uk/sg/"http://www.path.ox.ac.uk/sg/ "http://library.advanced.org/12429/Immune/Cells/macrophage2t.html"http://library.advanced.org/12429/Immune/Cells/macrophage2t.html you can do a search for "pulmonary immunology" and/or "alveolar macrophages" too….. here is a site that discusses both benefits and possible side effects of several of the more popular herbs (licorice is listed for upper respiratory): http://www.hcrc.org/contrib/coleman/herbs.html here is the FDAs take on it (the "final report" it says–somehow i doubt that "final" part): http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/ds-econ4.html and some pro-alt sites: (there are more good ones out there than this, obviously. you just have to weed thru the commercial stuff) http://chili.rt66.com/hrbmoore/ManualsMM/HerbRep3.txt (section 4 is pulmonary, scroll down a bit to see table of contents) http://www.healthy.net/hwlibraryarticles/hobbs/tonspec1.htm"http://www.healthy.net/hwlibraryarticles/hobbs/tonspec1.htm http://www.seaquake.com/cfs-fm-recovery/no.html"http://www.seaquake.com/cfs-fm-recovery/no.html http://www.seaquake.com/cfs-fm-recovery/no.html" I have four brain cells left, and at the moment, they seem to be arguing. — K The truth is just an exceptional lie. — Philip Rodrigues Jeremy: "But giraffes aren’t belligerent!" Paul: "Yeah, but if you rubber-banded them to something they might be!"

Response:

ka, I know very little, at this time. My concern is just with possible side effects of some prescribed medications. For example, "The drugs commonly used in the treatment of allergic conditions, including asthma, have many potentially harmful and dangerous side effects. These antihistamines, steroid hormones, or xanthine derivatives have side effects that may be merely annoying to your child but in many instances are dangerous. For example, steroid treatment of asthmatic children has been demonstrated to retard lung maturation and physical growth (i) and to cause a higher incidence of cataracts in children receiving long-term steroid therapy (ii)." (i) Taylor,DR, Sears MR, Herbison, GP, et al. regular inhaled beta agonists in asthma: Effects on Exacerbations and lung function. Thorax 1993, 48: 134-138 (ii) Mendelsohn, RS How to Rise a Healthy Child….. N.Y. Ballantyne Books, 1984 This from an article by Dr Kevin Treacy and J Hattersley, ’A Real Cure for Asthma and A Lot More’, much of which has been published in peer-reviewed ‘Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients’ 1998; Jan: 92-95. k. ‘how sad if a new day’s dawning were clouded all over with shadows of yesterday’s issues and tomorrow’s unknowns.’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ASTHMA CASES CONTINUE TO RISE It is now estimated that 17.3 million Americans have asthma. Between 1980 and 1994 the prevalence of asthma in this country increased 75%. California has the largest estimated asthmatic population (2.27 million) followed by New York (1.24 million) and Texas (1.18 million). These statistics were published by the American Lung Association and the National Center for Environmental Health. A major survey on asthma reports that one in three children with asthma had to go to an emergency room because of an asthmatic attack in the past year. The survey also reported that 41 percent of all asthma patients, nearly six million Americans, were hospitalized, treated in emergency rooms or required other urgent care for asthma in the past year. The survey, which was funded by Glaxo Welcome Inc., concluded that the nation is falling far short of new government guidelines for asthma care and that for many people, a generally controllable disease is out of control. quoted from the following site: http://www.adamsmd.com/news.html i started doing some research online yesterday about a new drug that my ped prescribed for my 2 1/2 year old (Xopenex) due to a cough that has lasted a couple of weeks. (we had used albuterol during another breathing problem scare about 9 mos ago). i am wondering, even though my son hasnt actually been diagnosed with asthma (he has only had about 3 of these ’bouts’ and they werent very severe), what is the deal with the increase in asthma? does anyone out there in mha reading land have it or have kids with it? i am just starting to research this, and i found the above site that has some conventional info……. i dont know if there even are any "alternative" methods for treating bronchial problems other than inhaling EOs like camphor, eucalyptus, etc…..(ie, Vics vapo rub) does anyone have any good info on the apparent rise in asthma diagnoses in children??? and/or respiratory viruses??? I have four brain cells left, and at the moment, they seem to be arguing. — K The truth is just an exceptional lie. — Philip Rodrigues Jeremy: "But giraffes aren’t belligerent!" Paul: "Yeah, but if you rubber-banded them to something they might be!"

Response:

thanks k…. there hasnt even been a diagnosis of asthma for my son. and he is absolutely a SPAZ after 1/2 of a dose of albuterol from a nebulizer (and i doubt that he even gets much cause he squirms and doesnt breathe in much at all). so me and hubby are having our doubts about continuing any of these treatments. the ped prescribed this newer version of the drug (the Xopenex) which our local pharmacy was out of and had to order. so now (after two measley albuterol treatments) we are debating whether to even go pick it up. ESPECIALLY after i read the "safety in children under twelve hasnt been determined" part about the Xopenex. i am gonna go research some EOs to diffuse that are anti-viral. i bought some OTC expectorant but am hesitant to use that either. he hasnt coughed much at all today (i am sure some will ascribe that to the 2 itsy albuterol treatments, but i say it is because he is getting over–FINALLY–whatever it was causing the congestion) i wonder if colds/viruses/bronchial problems are actually getting worse than when we were kids or whether it is just that reporting statistics has gotten better?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ka, I know very little, at this time. My concern is just with possible side effects of some prescribed medications. For example, "The drugs commonly used in the treatment of allergic conditions, including asthma, have many potentially harmful and dangerous side effects. These antihistamines, steroid hormones, or xanthine derivatives have side effects that may be merely annoying to your child but in many instances are dangerous. For example, steroid treatment of asthmatic children has been demonstrated to retard lung maturation and physical growth (i) and to cause a higher incidence of cataracts in children receiving long-term steroid therapy (ii)." (i) Taylor,DR, Sears MR, Herbison, GP, et al. regular inhaled beta agonists in asthma: Effects on Exacerbations and lung function. Thorax 1993, 48: 134-138 (ii) Mendelsohn, RS How to Rise a Healthy Child….. N.Y. Ballantyne Books, 1984 This from an article by Dr Kevin Treacy and J Hattersley, ’A Real Cure for Asthma and A Lot More’, much of which has been published in peer-reviewed ‘Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients’ 1998; Jan: 92-95. k. ‘how sad if a new day’s dawning were clouded all over with shadows of yesterday’s issues and tomorrow’s unknowns.’ ASTHMA CASES CONTINUE TO RISE It is now estimated that 17.3 million Americans have asthma. Between 1980 and 1994 the prevalence of asthma in this country increased 75%. California has the largest estimated asthmatic population (2.27 million) followed by New York (1.24 million) and Texas (1.18 million). These statistics were published by the American Lung Association and the National Center for Environmental Health. A major survey on asthma reports that one in three children with asthma had to go to an emergency room because of an asthmatic attack in the past year. The survey also reported that 41 percent of all asthma patients, nearly six million Americans, were hospitalized, treated in emergency rooms or required other urgent care for asthma in the past year. The survey, which was funded by Glaxo Welcome Inc., concluded that the nation is falling far short of new government guidelines for asthma care and that for many people, a generally controllable disease is out of control. quoted from the following site: http://www.adamsmd.com/news.html i started doing some research online yesterday about a new drug that my ped prescribed for my 2 1/2 year old (Xopenex) due to a cough that has lasted a couple of weeks. (we had used albuterol during another breathing problem scare about 9 mos ago). i am wondering, even though my son hasnt actually been diagnosed with asthma (he has only had about 3 of these ’bouts’ and they werent very severe), what is the deal with the increase in asthma? does anyone out there in mha reading land have it or have kids with it? i am just starting to research this, and i found the above site that has some conventional info……. i dont know if there even are any "alternative" methods for treating bronchial problems other than inhaling EOs like camphor, eucalyptus, etc…..(ie, Vics vapo rub) does anyone have any good info on the apparent rise in asthma diagnoses in children??? and/or respiratory viruses??? I have four brain cells left, and at the moment, they seem to be arguing. — K The truth is just an exceptional lie. — Philip Rodrigues Jeremy: "But giraffes aren’t belligerent!" Paul: "Yeah, but if you rubber-banded them to something they might be!"

– I have four brain cells left, and at the moment, they seem to be arguing. — K The truth is just an exceptional lie. — Philip Rodrigues Jeremy: "But giraffes aren’t belligerent!" Paul: "Yeah, but if you rubber-banded them to something they might be!"

Response:

ASTHMA CASES CONTINUE TO RISE It is now estimated that 17.3 million Americans have asthma. Between 1980 and 1994 the prevalence of asthma in this country increased 75%. California has the largest estimated asthmatic population (2.27 million) followed by New York (1.24 million) and Texas (1.18 million). These statistics were published by the American Lung Association and the National Center for Environmental Health. A major survey on asthma reports that one in three children with asthma had to go to an emergency room because of an asthmatic attack in the past year. The survey also reported that 41 percent of all asthma patients, nearly six million Americans, were hospitalized, treated in emergency rooms or required other urgent care for asthma in the past year. The survey, which was funded by Glaxo Welcome Inc., concluded that the nation is falling far short of new government guidelines for asthma care and that for many people, a generally controllable disease is out of control. quoted from the following site: http://www.adamsmd.com/news.html i started doing some research online yesterday about a new drug that my ped prescribed for my 2 1/2 year old (Xopenex) due to a cough that has lasted a couple of weeks. (we had used albuterol during another breathing problem scare about 9 mos ago). i am wondering, even though my son hasnt actually been diagnosed with asthma (he has only had about 3 of these ’bouts’ and they werent very severe), what is the deal with the increase in asthma? does anyone out there in mha reading land have it or have kids with it? i am just starting to research this, and i found the above site that has some conventional info……. i dont know if there even are any "alternative" methods for treating bronchial problems other than inhaling EOs like camphor, eucalyptus, etc…..(ie, Vics vapo rub) does anyone have any good info on the apparent rise in asthma diagnoses in children??? and/or respiratory viruses??? I have four brain cells left, and at the moment, they seem to be arguing. — K The truth is just an exceptional lie. — Philip Rodrigues Jeremy: "But giraffes aren’t belligerent!" Paul: "Yeah, but if you rubber-banded them to something they might be!"

Response:

Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

Panic attacks vs. Asthma attacks.

Question:

Really? I thought that hyperventilation was only a "panic" thing! Thank you for setting me straight!

*Acute* hyperventilation is a "panic" thing. *Chronic* hyperventilation is more subtle and can go on all day long. Hence the word "chronic". I had this happen to me in July when my allergies started acting up. It also happened to be hot and humid which made it worse. All day I felt like a pillow was tied to my face. Inhalers were doing nothing. I finally couldn’t stand it anymore, so I put the kids in bed and drove myself to ER. I Calmly filled out the forms, answered all the questions, etc. I was a little anxious, but I certainly didn’t feel like I was panicky. The Dr. said I had chronic hyperventilation syndrome and gave me sedatives. Within an hour or so I was breathing fine. You don’t have to have a panic disorder for this to happen. Not getting a break from stress can cause it. When you get stressed out you breathe too fast and too shallow. Add muggy weather, a stuffed up head and nose, too much caffeine, screaming kids and mom takes a trip to ER thinking she’s having a major asthma attack. At least I was able to get some peace and quiet there. Mary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really? I thought that hyperventilation was only a "panic" thing! Thank you for setting me straight! *Acute* hyperventilation is a "panic" thing. *Chronic* hyperventilation is more subtle and can go on all day long. Hence the word "chronic". I had this happen to me in July when my allergies started acting up. It also happened to be hot and humid which made it worse. All day I felt like a pillow was tied to my face. Inhalers were doing nothing. I finally couldn’t stand it anymore, so I put the kids in bed and drove myself to ER. I Calmly filled out the forms, answered all the questions, etc. I was a little anxious, but I certainly didn’t feel like I was panicky. The Dr. said I had chronic hyperventilation syndrome and gave me sedatives. Within an hour or so I was breathing fine. You don’t have to have a panic disorder for this to happen. Not getting a break from stress can cause it. When you get stressed out you breathe too fast and too shallow. Add muggy weather, a stuffed up head and nose, too much caffeine, screaming kids and mom takes a trip to ER thinking she’s having a major asthma attack. At least I was able to get some peace and quiet there. LOL! Thanks for the laugh…….believe me, I know how you feel! You

forgot one thing though….add in the husband and you’ve got it all covered!

Response:

Dear Andrea, I agree with you and think hyperventilation is often involved in asthma attacks. I got a book from our local library – Hyperventilation by Dinah Bradley . Interesting tips to help control the ‘panic ‘ element which can be part of an attack – which has helped me reduce my use of ventolin. Best wishes Janet

Response:

Really? I thought that hyperventilation was only a "panic" thing! Thank you for setting me straight! ANDI http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6104/index.html Andrea’s Unofficial Monkees Pictures And Stuff Webpage http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6104/joeylawrence.html Another Joey Lawrence Webpage! "And in the end, the love you take Is equal to the love, you make….." – Lennon/McCartney

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I still, however, believe that in some cases asthma attacks can be exacerbated by added anxiety and chronic hyperventilation syndrome which, by itself, can even cause wheezing. For more information check out: http://home.pacbell.net/colin/hypervnt.htm Of course asthma attacks are made worse by anxiety. But it is quite difficult not to be anxious when you are having respiratory difficulty. And I am sure that in some cases chronic hyperventilation syndrome can cause wheezing.

Hi! I’m not exactly a newbie (I was here about a year ago) and I was diagnosed with asthma, just a few years before. I used to post here and I once asked about getting a tightening of the chest whenever I felt anxious, but it would go away when I calmed down. Someone (I don’t remember who) told me that I should look into Panic/Anxiety support groups as this sounds like part of a panic attack. Well, that person was right! Tightening of the chest is one of the symptoms of a panic attack and panic CAN mimic asthma (to an asthmatic). Now, don’t get me wrong…..I was diagnosed as an asthmatic by 4 doctors, but sometimes it IS hard to tell one from the other. It’s a catch 22, you can get a tightening of the chest from panic, and also get panic from a tightening of the chest because of an asthma attack. I hope this makes some sense (I tend to babble sometimes). ANDI http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6104/index.html Andrea’s Unofficial Monkees Pictures and Stuff Webpage

Response:

I didn’t mean to imply that someone’s asthma attack was a panic attack only. I reread my comment and realized that it did give that impression so I apologize for that. I still, however, believe that in some cases asthma attacks can be exacerbated by added anxiety and chronic hyperventilation syndrome which, by itself, can even cause wheezing. For more information check out: http://home.pacbell.net/colin/hypervnt.htm If someone has a life threatening asthma attack, would they breathe better merely by fainting or taking oxygen? I’m not trying to be flippant or accusatory. I’d really like to know. Regards, Mary

Response:

I still, however, believe that in some cases asthma attacks can be exacerbated by added anxiety and chronic hyperventilation syndrome which, by itself, can even cause wheezing. For more information check out: http://home.pacbell.net/colin/hypervnt.htm

Of course asthma attacks are made worse by anxiety. But it is quite difficult not to be anxious when you are having respiratory difficulty. And I am sure that in some cases chronic hyperventilation syndrome can cause wheezing. I did check out the article and it plainly states that the symptoms of chronic hyperventilation are usually chronic in nature rather than acute. Also it indicates it is rare to bring on bronchospasm because of hyperventilation. It also says the symptoms are triggered by physiological changes associated with PaCO2. Correcting poor breathing habits is recommended. Only a very small portion are thought to need a psych consult. Chronic hyperventilation syndrome is not a "panic attack". If someone has a life threatening asthma attack, would they breathe better merely by fainting or taking oxygen? I’m not trying to be flippant or accusatory. I’d really like to know.

If the problem was only bronchoconstriction, then passing out might indeed resolve the attack if the bronchial muscles relaxed. However, I don’t think inflammation associated with asthma would get any better conscious or unconscious. Betty Bridges

Response:

Hi Pam, I know what you mean about other people’s misperceptions. I sometimes get accused of being a hypochondriac because I have to use my inhalers a lot. The other thing that really sucks is having to go to the doctor frequently. People sometimes think I’m just trying to get out of my responsibilities but that’s bogus.. Keep plugging! | Hi, I am really a very easy person to get along with, most of the time, | but when I read the message from Mary stating that she thought this other | women’s attack sounded like a panic attack I became angry. When I was a | child about 10 yrs. old my parents were told that I didn’t have asthma but | had panic attacks. They should leave me a alone in a quit place and I | would be OK. The thought at the time, and with some people even now was | that children with asthma are seeking attention. I can testify that I | really do have asthma, the attacks that I had as a child were asthma | attacks. I get so tired of people telling me to slow down my breathing and | to take long inhalations and to hold my breath and to calm down and on and | on. I have had so many attacks that I am the calmest person in the room. | Once I was really calm and my pulse ox was 72% | The doctor thought the machine was miss reading, until he listened to me, | and didn’t hear much. He even tried the pulse ox on himself. My points | are: 1. do not be to quick to put people in a compartment until all facts | are known. 2. I think some times people say calm down and breath slower | because it makes them feel that they are being helpful. 3. we have come a | long way in treatment of asthma and I think that is really great.( we don’t | have to shut ourselves away). Thanks for listening.Pam | |

Response:

Hi, I am really a very easy person to get along with, most of the time, but when I read the message from Mary stating that she thought this other women’s attack sounded like a panic attack I became angry. When I was a child about 10 yrs. old my parents were told that I didn’t have asthma but had panic attacks. They should leave me a alone in a quit place and I would be OK. The thought at the time, and with some people even now was that children with asthma are seeking attention. I can testify that I really do have asthma, the attacks that I had as a child were asthma attacks. I get so tired of people telling me to slow down my breathing and to take long inhalations and to hold my breath and to calm down and on and on. I have had so many attacks that I am the calmest person in the room. Once I was really calm and my pulse ox was 72% The doctor thought the machine was miss reading, until he listened to me, and didn’t hear much. He even tried the pulse ox on himself. My points are: 1. do not be to quick to put people in a compartment until all facts are known. 2. I think some times people say calm down and breath slower because it makes them feel that they are being helpful. 3. we have come a long way in treatment of asthma and I think that is really great.( we don’t have to shut ourselves away). Thanks for listening.Pam

Response:

Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

Costs of Obesity

Question:

The 12/14/98 Wall Street Journal had an article that dealt with the rising cost of pharmaceuticals and included some data that provides a basis for arguing that obesity medications should be paid for by health plans. The article took the position that the increasing share of the health care budget being allocated to pharmaceuticals resulted from the increasing number of diseases and disorders that they can treat. Alzheimer’s was mentioned as one case in point. New Alzheimer’s medications may delay the onset of symptoms, allowing someone to take an admittedly expensive course of medication rather than be confined in a much more expensive Alzheimer’s care facility. The portion of the article on obesity medication cited an unnamed study based on unidentified government health data that concluded that the cost of obesity to the economy is about 3.9 billion dollars annually and is related to 39.2 million lost days of work a year. Can anyone identify the study or shed any light on the source of this information?

Response:

The 12/14/98 Wall Street Journal had an article that dealt with the rising cost of pharmaceuticals and included some data that provides a basis for arguing that obesity medications should be paid for by health plans. ::edited::: The portion of the article on obesity medication cited an unnamed study based on unidentified government health data that concluded that the cost of obesity to the economy is about 3.9 billion dollars annually and is related to 39.2 million lost days of work a year. Can anyone identify the study or shed any light on the source of this information?

Here you go: WALL STREET JOURNAL December 14, 1998 - Manager’s Journal Do Drugs Cost Too Much? Consider the Alternatives. By Richard Jay Kogan, chairman and CEO of Schering-Plough Corp. Drug prices have become the target of journalists and politicians, who accuse pharmaceutical and biotechnology firms of making bigger profits as the industry takes up a larger share of the health-care dollar. As the CEO of a pharmaceutical company, I plead guilty. For the sake of the American people, I hope we go on committing this "crime" and increase our share even further. Profits are rising precisely because new and far better drugs are pushing aside older palliative medications, and because scientists are finding new drug candidates, delivery systems and technologies for intractable illnesses where heretofore none existed. The recent juxtaposition of two articles in this newspaper illustrates the point. Even as it was running a series on "America’s Soaring Drug Costs," the Journal also ran an article about a daughter’s terrible ordeal in trying to find a decent nursing home that could adequately care for her father, a former college professor, who suffers from Alzheimer’s disease. As the article noted, the cost of this palliative care–since Alzheimer’s is still irreversible–is $6,800 a month. Four million people have Alzheimer’s and, as the article notes, "14 million cases are expected by the middle of the next century." Less than five years ago, there were no medications for Alzheimer’s disease. Now there are three. For people with mild to moderate Alzheimer’s, these new drugs slow the rate of cognitive decline, reduce the need for palliative care and improve the quality of life. About 400,000 people are diagnosed with Alzheimer’s each year, and delays in nursing-home placement can be as high as two years. It is estimated that by using such medications early in the disease process and delaying onset, 400,000 cases can be avoided over the next decade. The number of new cases will continue to decline as medical science continues its advance. The launch of new drugs shifts costs and benefits around in ways that confuse and infuriate many people. While the benefits of new drugs reduce the incidence and severity of disease on a grand scale, the cost is borne largely by health plans and health-care institutions, which have no choice but to offer people access to life-saving breakthroughs. Innovative medications provide long-term gains to patients, lengthening and enhancing their lives. The dramatic decline in AIDS cases and deaths underscores this impact on health and wealth. A recent study found that the introduction of combination drug therapy led to "a 39% reduction in admissions, 44% reduction in bed days, 54% reduction in serious HIV-related illness, and a 40% reduction in the death rate. There was also a 42% reduction in the rate of patients developing AIDS." To be sure, increased use of new anti-HIV medications has driven up drug costs. But it also has, over time, reduced the total cost related to this disease. Most of the initial benefits, however, accrue to individuals, not the health-care system. Accusations that drug companies are marketing drugs that simply improve "lifestyle," as opposed to treating serious illnesses, are clearly an expression of discomfort over this shift in costs and benefits. Pharmaceuticals to treat obesity and allergies are often cited as examples of how drug costs have increased due to new drugs that are of less than life-or-death importance. But obesity is a risk factor in a wide range of illnesses, from heart attacks to breast cancer. The total cost attributable to obesity amounted to $99.2 billion in 1995, with about half that amount the result of direct medical costs. A study using government health data found that the cost of lost productivity attributed to obesity was $3.9 billion and reflected 39.2 million days of lost work. The number of physician visits attributed to obesity increased 88% from 1988 to 1994. Similarly, research seeking to explain why children’s asthma rates are climbing has found that simple allergies can trigger serious asthmatic episodes. For years less than 12% of Americans sought medical treatment for allergic rhinitis. As children grow older, their asthmatic episodes are more likely to be influenced by allergies. That more people are using nonsedating allergy medicines does add to drug costs–but it also means that fewer children will have asthma attacks and more of them will remain alert in school. To imply that increased drug costs come at patients’ expense is simply dishonest. There is no other way to help people fight most diseases except through the introduction and widespread use of innovative drugs. Imposing price controls and access limits on drugs will only shift money from research and development to other parts of the health-care system. In the 1950s, the government had planned to build national iron-lung centers for polio sufferers, but pharmaceutical innovations obviated the need. The indirect cost savings were as much as $31 billion. Before antibiotics, tuberculosis patients spent three to four years in a sanitarium (which would cost more than $70,000 a year today), with a 30% to 50% likelihood of death. Innovative medications over the past 30 years have helped reduce deaths from heart disease and stroke by half. Since 1965, drugs have helped cut emphysema deaths by 57% and ulcer deaths by 72%. And over time, higher spending on drugs will not only help patients but also lower overall treatment costs. Pharmaceutical companies make a profit and attract investors only when they create innovative products that make a real difference in people’s lives. Those who want to turn drug companies into financial scapegoats inadvertently harm patients still lacking medical help. Millions of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars have been saved through pharmaceutical innovation. Beware people who decry the cost of drugs but don’t discuss the total cost of disease. Malinda

Response:

It cracks me up that my insurance company would not fork over the $5 it cost me for phen, (It would probably cost them a lot less), but would be happy to pay for a heart by pass. J — I used to say, "Don’t trust anyone over 30.", now it’s "Life begins at 40."

Response:

It cracks me up that my insurance company would not fork over the $5 a month it cost me for phen, (It would probably cost them a lot less), but would be happy to pay for a heart by pass. J — I used to say, "Don’t trust anyone over 30.", now it’s "Life begins at 40."

Response:

Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

Asthma Unfriendly School

Question:

Has the US just gone overboard on it’s fight against drugs, or what? I’ve seen stuff about it on American news shows and I am mortified! Why don’t parents start standing up against the school system and litigate (or have they already?). What happened to LIFE, liberty, and justice? Doesn’t that include the children? I pulled my daughter out of her last school because I thought it ludicris that I had to send a doctors note so she be kept out of gym when her Asthma flares up. Her new school actually insists she keep her rescue inhalor on her at all times, as well as bring in some tylonal for headaches, muscle strains, etc (she takes Karate on Monday, aches all day Tuesday). The lawsuit after the first kid that dies from an Asthma Attack or severe Allergy Reaction because their meds were not handy will break the school systems bank! Maybe when it hits their pocketbook, they’ll change their minds about this dangerous policy. Tina in Montreal

Response:

In all honesty, I’m not usually a litigatious person, but even as a Cdn. I’d be suing if my child’s health was put at risk like this.

I forgot to add this in my last post: Even our pediatrician has to get a *different* doctor to write a note when she wants her daughter to receive medicine at school (including OTC)! She rolled her eyes as she told me this, and said it drives her nuts. Possibly a lawsuit would be fruitful, but that’s a HUGE drain of resources (*time* and money). The majority of parents don’t give a hoot. It was a big deal that our school instituted an allergy policy this year. Because of my pressure, children can bring pets to visit for a maximum of 10 minutes — and an allergic child can go to the library during the visit. I was SICK of my kids coming home with itching welts and aggravated asthma from other kids bringing cats, dogs, ferrets, you-name-it to visit in the classroom. The worst part is that the teacher didn’t even notice anyone was bothered by it…. Mary

Response:

We had similar problems here in our school district. No amount of doctors’ notes would change their minds. this could be very dangerous. Surely, there has to be some exceptions.

No exceptions! What about diabetics who may need to take certain drugs during the day?

One girl in my son’s class fell down the flight of stairs having a diabetic insulin reaction. Instead of the teacher giving her juice and escorting her to the ofice she sent the girl alone. She passed out halfway there. Do they not realize that they are putting your child’s health on the line?

They didn’t really care! One day my son sat there in distress for 5 hours because the school nurse was off and there was nobody to give him his med. They didn’t even bother to call me! Is there no way around this even with a doctor’s note? The doctor’s note just allows the meds to be kept in a locked cabinet in the school nurse’s office, to be taken *by the child himself* with the nurse’s only responsibility to unlock the cabinet and hand the child his own inhaler. She is not to even make sure the child is taking it properly, or even taking it at all. In our district, the nurses cannot dispense *any* meds, not even Tylenol. If a child needs a med the nurse is to send the child home with a note for the parent to make arrangements to come in and give it her/himself if the child is not mature enough to take his own meds. When my son was newly diagnosed at age 5 and was on every 4 hour nebulizer treatments I had to quit my job to come into the school at noon every day to give him his treatments. If *I* was too ill to come in I just kept him home because the nurse wasn’t allowed to do it. What happens if your child has an attack? Unless he passes out and needs an ambulance, nothing if he doesn’t raise his hand and hope the teacher allows him to go to the office to take his med. That is, if the nurse is in that day. Is there someone there trained to treat this? Is there someone to administer

ventolin? No. Even the Registered Nurse school nurse, trained to administer meds of all kinds, is not allowed to administer any meds. The most she can do in an emergency situation is call 911. Isn’t this against your child’s rights? I can’t believe in this day of knowledge such ignorance exists

Not ignorance, just fear of lawsuits if anything happens, and unfortunately, even teachers in our school district have been sued for petty things, like she "raised her voice to a child, damaged his self-esteem and caused psychological harm"! Is it any wonder this is one of the reasons we pulled our son out of the schools and decided to homeschooll!! And a bonus is, no more colds every other week because working parents send their sick kids in to class because they refuse to take a sick day to care for their own kid. In the 2 years he’s been homeschooling he’s been sick enough to make an unscheduled doctor visit only twice, instead of every other week. — Sue in NJ http://www.agoron.com/~susang/index.htm remove spam block to email

Response:

After reading many of the posts. Our US schools are in sad shape…..I am fortunate in the school system where my children attend. We still have a fulltime health aide and health clinic and thw school nurse (RN) visits at least twice a week to all the schools in her area. Even with all the policies the administration is flexible. My daughter keeps her meds in the office and that includes asthma and OTC pain meds. Our health aides are wonderful and very responsive to the childrens needs. I can’t count how many times I’ve recieved a call to let me know the child states she is feeling fine but the aide thinks something is brewing since she knows my daughter after seeing her for two years straight. Please keep in mind my daughter not only has Asthma but also has Sickle cell Anemia…. I get reminders of feild trips and do I want meds carried with the child, or would I like to go because the teacher will have to give meds and if I’m not comfortable with that we can make alternate plans for the child. My girls have excellent caring teachers,thank god…I don’tknow what we’d do if things were different. and yes,they both have either 501 accommadation plan or IEP’s in place. As a mother and a member of the Emergnecy medical professional some of these ridged school policies endager the lives of our children. I wouldn’t stand for it…..find out how and what avenues you have to protest this policy in your school system. Contact you Americans with disabilities group or civil rights organizations to see how to finght this legally. Schools hate this type of attention. Anytime your child gets sick and the care was delayed or not recieved due to these policies document them and let the press know…Too much bad publicity will usually get them to change there minds. To military families (being and exmilitary family myself) let base commanders know,talk to your state senators…refuse to sign impact aid cards unless policies are changed. remember for every military child in a local school system….the school recieves impact aide which is money for educating your child…If enough parents refuse the school will get the message. You got to play hard ball with these schools. Each day I see my local school if I let them take away all my parental authority and riughts with all there rules….as I say I send them to school to be educated…morals,values and descipline come from home…. Good luck to those out there in this struggle. Toni

Response:

I guess I am very lucky with my school district. The principal at the middle school that my son goes to encourages my son to have his albuterol with him at all times. When his asthma is really bad like early spring when everything is blooming he stays in the office during recess where it is airconditioned. My daughter who has to have an epi-pen because of bee stings is also allowed to carry her medication. Perhaps the parent who is having trouble with the school should contact an attorney regarding child endangerment? Jane TDC Sneezy, Keeper of Antihistamines, Supplier of Kleenex – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In our school system, a type 1 diabetic child is considered handicapped — the same as a child in a wheelchair or a child with Down’s Syndrome. They are assigned a full-time aide who stays with them throughout the day and administers drugs — although the drugs are still kept only in the central office. Care for these special-needs students is mandated by the state (it is also why there are no funds for gifted programs). For health problems such as allergies, asthma, or ADD, medication is kept in the office. If your child needs medication daily (like an inhaled steroid), the teacher sends the kid to the office at a certain time (assuming they remember). If he needs albuterol, he has to get to the office. I can only hope that if a bad attack hits, somebody will notice!! Neither one of my sons wheeze when they are in trouble. As I’ve said, I personally met with every teacher they come in contact with. One teacher even traded her hamster for a fish tank. I don’t trust the secretaries to give my kids medication. They are caring people, but they aren’t particularly knowledgable about medicine and they’re busy doing their secretarial jobs! I’ve left an albuterol inhaler, along with a doctor’s permission form and my directions, in the office (without a current doctor’s form, they wouldn’t administer anything). But I tell my kids that if they ever feel like they’re in trouble, demand that someone call me and/or an ambulance. I’ve helped out in the classroom several times, and I see how teachers respond to physical complaints. They hear so many stomachache stories that they aren’t too sympathetic. Basically, any physical complaint is responded to with, "Sit down and keep doing your work. It will go away." You pretty much have to be bleeding or puking to get attention. I’ve told my kids to high-tail it to the office if they feel they need medicine, and I’ll deal with the ramifications later. It’s quite a hike from my older son’s classroom to the office! I’ve brought the medication system up with the superintendent and the school board. I realize they have budget constraints, which is why we don’t have a school nurse. It was almost funny watching them try to come up with a list of weirdo, convoluted reasons why a kid can’t carry his inhaler with him. Not the brightest group of people, and they won’t budge. ….a teacher can’t even keep an epi-pen in her desk. "Someone could jimmy the lock and use it in an inappropriate way!" Mary Unfortunately, I live in Michigan. My kids are not allowed to carry any drug at any time. The school will suspend a kid if ANY drug is found on Mary, I read your post and my heart goes out to you. Don’t these people see that this could be very dangerous. Surely, there has to be some exceptions. What about diabetics who may need to take certain drugs during the day? Do they not realize that they are putting your child’s health on the line? Is there no way around this even with a doctor’s note? What happens if your child has an attack? Is there someone there trained to treat this? Is there someone to administer ventolin? Isn’t this against your child’s rights? I can’t believe in this day of knowledge such ignorance exists

Response:

As a teacher in an urban high school I can’t even imagine my students not having their inhalers with them. The number of students with asthma gets longer every year. Our school nurse would not have time for anything else if she had to keep track of all those inhalers.

Response:

Our school allows NO drugs on students. If I want my son to take a single OTC Tylenol tablet, I am supposed to get a doctor’s note and personally deliver it to the school office. Of course, when the issue arises, I simply stick the tablet into the bread of his sandwich and he discreetly takes it at lunchtime. If he is caught, he may be suspended. I am wondering about anaphalactic students — are they allowed to carry their epi-pens? Many of our anaphalactic students either carry their epi-pens, or we have them stashed in easy to reach "high" places (some parents have stated that because their children are at risk, not definate, for anaphalactic shock they don’t need to carry them) — unlocked of course because you don’t have time to search for a key.

No, anaphalactic students are not allowed to carry an epi-pen. Teachers are informed about the possibility of problems, and epi-pens are kept in the office. Mary

Response:

I am flabbergasted at this. I am an assistant principal at a K-8 school in northern Canada. Our policy states that students are not allowed to carry "prescription drugs" on them (and having once dealt with a child who shared his amoxicillian at lunch) it is a policy I support in principal. Having said that, many of our asthmatic students have permission to carry their inhalers. It is only common sense. I am wondering about anaphalactic students — are they allowed to carry their epi-pens? Many of our anaphalactic students either carry their epi-pens, or we have them stashed in easy to reach "high" places (some parents have stated that because their children are at risk, not definate, for anaphalactic shock they don’t need to carry them) — unlocked of course because you don’t have time to search for a key. In all honesty, I’m not usually a litigatious person, but even as a Cdn. I’d be suing if my child’s health was put at risk like this.

Response:

In our school system, a type 1 diabetic child is considered handicapped — the same as a child in a wheelchair or a child with Down’s Syndrome. They are assigned a full-time aide who stays with them throughout the day and administers drugs — although the drugs are still kept only in the central office. Care for these special-needs students is mandated by the state (it is also why there are no funds for gifted programs). For health problems such as allergies, asthma, or ADD, medication is kept in the office. If your child needs medication daily (like an inhaled steroid), the teacher sends the kid to the office at a certain time (assuming they remember). If he needs albuterol, he has to get to the office. I can only hope that if a bad attack hits, somebody will notice!! Neither one of my sons wheeze when they are in trouble. As I’ve said, I personally met with every teacher they come in contact with. One teacher even traded her hamster for a fish tank. I don’t trust the secretaries to give my kids medication. They are caring people, but they aren’t particularly knowledgable about medicine and they’re busy doing their secretarial jobs! I’ve left an albuterol inhaler, along with a doctor’s permission form and my directions, in the office (without a current doctor’s form, they wouldn’t administer anything). But I tell my kids that if they ever feel like they’re in trouble, demand that someone call me and/or an ambulance. I’ve helped out in the classroom several times, and I see how teachers respond to physical complaints. They hear so many stomachache stories that they aren’t too sympathetic. Basically, any physical complaint is responded to with, "Sit down and keep doing your work. It will go away." You pretty much have to be bleeding or puking to get attention. I’ve told my kids to high-tail it to the office if they feel they need medicine, and I’ll deal with the ramifications later. It’s quite a hike from my older son’s classroom to the office! I’ve brought the medication system up with the superintendent and the school board. I realize they have budget constraints, which is why we don’t have a school nurse. It was almost funny watching them try to come up with a list of weirdo, convoluted reasons why a kid can’t carry his inhaler with him. Not the brightest group of people, and they won’t budge. ….a teacher can’t even keep an epi-pen in her desk. "Someone could jimmy the lock and use it in an inappropriate way!" Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unfortunately, I live in Michigan. My kids are not allowed to carry any drug at any time. The school will suspend a kid if ANY drug is found on Mary, I read your post and my heart goes out to you. Don’t these people see that this could be very dangerous. Surely, there has to be some exceptions. What about diabetics who may need to take certain drugs during the day? Do they not realize that they are putting your child’s health on the line? Is there no way around this even with a doctor’s note? What happens if your child has an attack? Is there someone there trained to treat this? Is there someone to administer ventolin? Isn’t this against your child’s rights? I can’t believe in this day of knowledge such ignorance exists

Response:

The Los Angeles Unified School Districts’ Zero drug tolerance policy prevents my son from carrying his MDI on his person. I belive that students who have physician and parental approval should be allowed to carry and use their medication as appropriate. I desperately need to contact any parents who have battled and won the right to breathe for their childeren. Sincerely,

The newsletter published by Allergy and Asthma Network/Mothers of Asthmatics recently had an article (Oct 1998 issue) noting that New York’s governer recently signed a law allowing students to carry inhalers and self-medicate as needed. Unfortunately, I live in Michigan. My kids are not allowed to carry any drug at any time. The school will suspend a kid if ANY drug is found on him, in his locker, or in his backpack — even albuterol. If I want the school to administer a drug, I have to personally deliver it, in its original container and with a doctor’s written direction. There is no school nurse, and drugs are administered by a secretary (in between answering the phone and other duties). At the beginning of the year, I filled out a medical form about my son’s asthma and supplied an inhaler with doctor’s note–but that information sits in the office, and was never circulated to his teachers. I personally took the time to meet his gym teacher, music teacher, etc., to make sure they are aware of how volatile his asthma is. I just about freaked out when I saw the counter full of guinea pigs in his science room!! My older son is also lactose intolerant. I needed a doctor’s letter each year for the school to substitute juice for milk and remove dairy items at lunchtime. We finally just gave up and he carries his lunch each day. On the rare occasion when he wants to eat a dairy item, we hide Lactaid tablets in his sandwich. I really worry about them not having access to albuerol — especially on field trips. Mary

Response:

In the school system I work for meds can be carried by the student as long as the doctor ok’s it. What most schools are trying to prevent is a student having a full blown asthma attack in the bathroom, and the RN not knowing about it.

Response:

My duaghter’s elementray school requires that all meds–including her alberteral MDI–be kept in the nurse’s office and administered by the nurse. Of course, at this age she’s never really alone. She does keep one in her backpack for use on the bus–there I just needed to provide a Dr’s note for the bus dept and the driver. Is the nurse an option for you? lesa

Response:

Here is the web site for Mothers of Asthmatics: http://www.aanma.org/ Good luck! Ann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Los Angeles Unified School Districts’ Zero drug tolerance policy prevents my son from carrying his MDI on his person. I belive that students who have physician and parental approval should be allowed to carry and use their medication as appropriate. I desperately need to contact any parents who have battled and won the right to breathe for their childeren. Sincerely, In addition to the links Bill Ellis recommended, use a search engine to find Mothers of Asthmatics. They are experienced in dealing with this issue also. Joan

Response:

In addition to the links Bill Ellis recommended, use a search engine to find Mothers of Asthmatics. They are experienced in dealing with this issue also. Joan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Los Angeles Unified School Districts’ Zero drug tolerance policy prevents my son from carrying his MDI on his person. I belive that students who have physician and parental approval should be allowed to carry and use their medication as appropriate. I desperately need to contact any parents who have battled and won the right to breathe for their childeren. Sincerely, This seems to be an ongoing problem, but hard to believe a large school district like LA would not have an enlightened policy. Some parents have sued the school district for child endangerment; another had her child hide her inhaler and only use it in a restroom stall, and to go to a public phone and call home or 911 if she had an asthma attack. Others have worked with the school administration and Board of Education to formulate an enlightned policy. Here are some links: http://www.aaaai.org/public/publicedmat/tips/tip19.html Asthma and the School Child Newsletter Spring/Summer 1997 Volume 59, Number 8 Help Make Schools Safe for Asthma Sufferers Learn how your PTA can help make school a safer place for children with asthma by calling the American Lung Association at 800-LUNG-USA. http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/guide/guidelin/comp4/… Fig 4-8 Sources of Patient Education Programs http://vh.radiology.uiowa.edu/Patients/IHB/Peds/Allergy/ManagingAller… Iowa Health Book: Managing Allergies and Asthma at School Medications for Children with Allergies/Asthma National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Peer Review Status: Externally Peer Reviewed by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Excerpt: "Children with asthma who are old enough (at least 5 years old) and mature enough (as determined by the parents and physician and reviewed by the school nurse) should be allowed to carry their inhalers with them or to keep the inhalers in their desks or lockers. All contents copyright

Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

Anyone experience mental disturbances from Corticosteroids?

Question:

LinC, I saw your posting today, and I had to respond. I am a 26 year old female who tried SereVent in a inhalation aerosol form about 1 year ago. I was on it for 4 days and within a day and a half I was experiencing severe mood swings, ranging from forgetfullness, easy frustration, temper tantrums, and fits of crying. I finally phoned the pharmacy and they told me that there were no such side effects. I decided to quit taking the SereVent myself and with a couple of days I was back to normal. One doctor suggested that it was a reaction to the propellent that is used in the SereVent, now I am using the SereVent diskhaler disks when needed without sideffect. Another opinion was that it was a reaction to the mixture of medications that I was taking at that time. I am now using Pulmicort Turbuhaler (400mcg) two puffs twice a day. (with SereVent and Atrovnet as needed) I’ve tried Flovent, Beclafort, Tilade, Zadiden and the only one that keeps me under control is the Pulmicort. My doctor advised against regular use of SereVent unless I am having frequent mild attacks. I was just given the Atrovent after an acute attack last week from a particular hairspray at school. I am a hair dressing student and NEVER reacted to any sprays before, it contained propane and butane and am wondering if anyone has reacted to these triggers. My triggers are normally limited to animals, dust ect, molds… I still experiencing chest pain four days later and my peak flow is 150 below normal. I have found that I am extremly tired these past few days as well. I was on Prednisone for a short period then started on Pulmicort 2 years ago, I have never experienced this type of lasting discomfort, I was wondering what is the norm? Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive:yes I now take Vanceril (double strength) 2 puffs, twice daily, Servevent the same, Atrovent 2 puffs, four times daily. I have noticed in the last few months that I am not as stable mentally as I was before taking the heavier dose of Vanceril. Primarily, I forget very easily on some very important things that I always thought I was good at remembering. I admit I am not a young man anymore at 68, but I have wondered if the vanceril has any possible connection to this. I cannot find any such information in the literature describing Vanceril. Except for the slightly sore throat I seem to contend with since starting on Vanceril I have had no outward reactions. I have not yet discussed this with my doctor for the simple reason that I would be introducing an entirely new ailment that may be a product of my emagination.:) Has anyone had or heard of any such mental disturbances from taking any of these medications? LinC

Response:

I take Azmacort and because it is so effective, I don’t need to take my Provential (alburetrol) as often which causes anxiety. It also improved my asthma. I use to take Theo dur when I was young and boy did it make me a spaz. Intal also doesn’t cause mood swings. Ask your doctor about it.

Response:

LinC I have been taking servent,azmacort, and tilade for the past 9 mos These drugs are all new to me I use to use ventolin as needed which was not near enough. But even with just the ventolin I would get confussed and forgettful and have mood swings. But I was haveing lots of trouble breathing and constant chest pain I missed 5 weeks of work at one time because of it. I always felt the symptoms were from being so tight my oxygen sats were low. Which my Dr told me I have a problem with. . When I have trouble upon waking or it wakes me up I find myself forgettful and easily comfused most of the day and I can get very depressed and surley. So i am not sure it’s the drugs or the breathing problem. All the litature I have read about the drugs I take (although I have not found anything on tilade) never mention these symptoms as a side effect. I do know that all the new drugs have made me so much better and I can do normal things now like grogery shopping and working.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I avoid giving him medication until he is really having trouble because the effects of the medicine are so extreme. All the doctors I’ve talked to say they have never heard of this and assure me that hyper activeness is normal but this is way beyond that. I would love to hear if any one else has heard of this happening. Thanks LH If your son is taking oral versions of bronchodilators (albuterol, Alupent) and steroids (prednisolone syrup), he is getting a much larger dose than Ellisthanks for all the links. I guess I did say he gets oral doses of these drugs but actually we have tried albuterol in metered dose (hard for him) and in a nebulizor. The reaction with albuterol seems over the top. Crazy stuff. Terror. Alupent doesn’t have quite the same reaction but well if it’s not as effective. He can take the liquid prelone for a few days without too much side effects. Have you or anyone else ever heard of these kinds of reactions or does it just sound like overdose to you? Sometimes I feel like I’m at the mercy of emergency room doctors especially when they insist. thank goodness these episodes don’t happen often but I want ot be prepared the next time. LH

Yes I have heard of side effects like these with high doses of bronchodilators like albuterol; more likely in oral or nebulized form. One dose of 2.5 gm of nebulized albuterol is equivalent to 20 puffs of albuterol (Ventolin) by metered-dose inhaler. The oral dose is more like 40 puffs equivalent. Since the side effects are dose-dependent, that is, the higher the dose, the worse the side effects, you should give him the form resulting in the lowest dose. The metered dose inhaler is more effective than oral since the drug goes directly to the lungs. The metered dose inhaler should be used with a spacer, like an AeroChamber, for ease of use and timimg is no longer critical. If this is still a problem, use the AeroChamber with mask, which even works for infants. Possible MDI inhalers are Ventolin (albuterol), Breathaire (terbutaline) and Alupent a poor third. Normally given 2 puffs every 4-6 hr during moderate exacerbation, otherwise not given on a regular basis. Some of the effects you described may be due to the high dose of oral steroid (prednisolone syrup). Again you should be using a steroid inhaler like Vanceril or Flovent, which will result in a much lower dose, about 30 times lower since it goes directly to the lungs. For both the bronchodilator and steroid, use of inhalers rather than oral or nebulized forms will result in much smaller dose and therefore much less side effects. Sounds like you might benefit from changing to another doctor who is more up to date in his treatment. Proper home management with a peak flow meter and Action plan to use the MDI bronchodilator as needed and add or increase inhaled steroids by MDI should avoid most trips to ER. Once in ER they have to use heroic measures like oral or injected steroids. With proper long term maintenance meds this doesn’t need to happen very often. I suspect your son should be using Intal or low dose inhaled steroids on a regular basis to keep his asthma under control. So buy the book ‘Children with Asthma’, Thomas Plaut join an asthma support group (call your American Lung Assoc or clinic) keep reading posts on this newsgroup along with its FAQ Ellis

Response:

I avoid giving him medication until he is really having trouble because the effects of the medicine are so extreme. All the doctors I’ve talked to say they have never heard of this and assure me that hyper activeness is normal but this is way beyond that. I would love to hear if any one else has heard of this happening. Thanks LH If your son is taking oral versions of bronchodilators (albuterol, Alupent) and steroids (prednisolone syrup), he is getting a much larger dose than Ellisthanks for all the links. I guess I did say he gets oral doses of these

drugs but actually we have tried albuterol in metered dose (hard for him) and in a nebulizor. The reaction with albuterol seems over the top. Crazy stuff. Terror. Alupent doesn’t have quite the same reaction but well if it’s not as effective. He can take the liquid prelone for a few days without too much side effects. Have you or anyone else ever heard of these kinds of reactions or does it just sound like overdose to you? Sometimes I feel like I’m at the mercy of emergency room doctors especially when they insist. thank goodness these episodes don’t happen often but I want ot be prepared the next time. LH

Response:

Hi , this is my first time in a chat. I was looking for others who – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – have experienced the type of side effects my son displays. He is 5 and has been having occasional attacks since around 2. The docs would put him on liquid albuterol and prednisolone syrup. He would become extremely hyper (normal side effect, Alex calls it feeling crazy) He would also become dillusional (One time at the hospital he hid under the bed when the food cart rolled by)and have night terrors when he could finally fall asleep. His doctor then told us alupent is just as effective as the albuterol and using this instead seemed to reduce the reaction. He was experiencing wheezing a couple of weeks ago and was running down the hall screaming and crying because he thought his dad was going to "get him". I avoid giving him medication until he is really having trouble because the effects of the medicine are so extreme. All the doctors I’ve talked to say they have never heard of this and assure me that hyper activeness is normal but this is way beyond that. I would love to hear if any one else has heard of this happening. Thanks LH

If your son is taking oral versions of bronchodilators (albuterol, Alupent) and steroids (prednisolone syrup), he is getting a much larger dose than if he used the inhaled version, typically a factor of 30 times higher dose with much more severe side effects. Side effects are dose-dependent, the inhalers give the lower dose. At age 5 he should be using metered-dose inhalers, like Vanceril for the steroid, and Ventolin (albuterol) for the bronchodilator; along with an AeroChamber spacer. Long acting asthma drugs, like the steroid inhaler Vanceril, need to be given on a regular basis to prevent asthma exacerbations. At age 5 he could start using a low flow Peak Flow Meter to monitor lung function. When lung function drops from green into yellow zone (50-80% of personal best) its time to implement an Action Plan, usually adding bronchodilators as needed and doubling inhaled steroid. The 1997 Expert Panel Report: Guidelines-Asthma, no longer recommends a bronchodilator like albuterol or Alupent to be used on a regular basis for maintenance; it is to only be used as needed, usually less than once per day. Also Alupent (metaproterenol) is no longer recommended as it is not as selective as the recommended beta2-agonists like albuterol and terbutaline. A good book which explains all of this is ‘Children with Asthma, a Manual for Parents’, Thomas Plaut, MD www.pedipress.com or your local bookstore It also explains how to pick a good asthma doctor. Here are some links: http://www.aaaai.org/patpub/resource/publicat/tips/tip20.html CHILDHOOD ASTHMA http://www.aaaai.org/profinfo/publicat/paramete/treatmen/children.html Asthma in children http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/guide/aaps.htm Acute Exacerbations, child http://www.nejm.org/collections/asthma/OA-4/1.htm Asthma & Wheezing in the First Six Years of Life http://gut1.peds.uiowa.edu/ACUTASTH/index.htm Treatment of Acute Asthma in Children http://www.arbon.com/njc/PSGMF.htm Pediatric Self-Management Guidelines Ellis

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive:yes LinC, I saw your posting today, and I had to respond. I am a 26 year old female who tried SereVent in a inhalation aerosol form about 1 year ago. I was on it for 4 days and within a day and a half I was experiencing severe mood swings, ranging from forgetfullness, easy frustration, temper tantrums, and fits of crying. I finally phoned the pharmacy and they told me that there were no such side effects. I decided to quit taking the SereVent myself and with a couple of days I was back to normal. One doctor suggested that it was a reaction to the propellent that is used in the SereVent, now I am using the SereVent diskhaler disks when needed without sideffect. Another opinion was that it was a reaction to the mixture of medications that I was taking at that time. I am now using Pulmicort Turbuhaler (400mcg) two puffs twice a day. (with SereVent and Atrovnet as needed) I’ve tried Flovent, Beclafort, Tilade, Zadiden and the only one that keeps me under control is the Pulmicort. My doctor advised against regular use of SereVent unless I am having frequent mild attacks. I was just given the Atrovent after an acute attack last week from a particular hairspray at school. I am a hair dressing student and NEVER reacted to any sprays before, it contained propane and butane and am wondering if anyone has reacted to these triggers. My triggers are normally limited to animals, dust ect, molds… I still experiencing chest pain four days later and my peak flow is 150 below normal. I have found that I am extremly tired these past few days as well. I was on Prednisone for a short period then started on Pulmicort 2 years ago, I have never experienced this type of lasting discomfort, I was wondering what is the norm? Michelle x-no-archive:yes Thanks Michelle for your message and the rundown on your history of medications taken and reactions therefrom. Even though I have received several messages to the contrary, I remain somewhat convinced that something happened after switching to these new medication doseages. I had taken Vanceril before in regular doseage rather than double strength, the same with atrovent except half the daily dose that I now take and Serevent is totally new to me as of 3 months ago. I guess my stating that the problem was forgetfullness is not exactly what I meant although that was part of it. Confusion which includes forgetting would be more like it. I finally passed the whole thing off as an emagined thing, especially with those that corresponded with me on the subject. Yet, I firmly beleive there has to be some connection since it all began so suddenly. I plan to visit my doctor in a few days and I plan to ask him about this. I just know he will tell me that it is not the medication My breathing has been so much improved since going on these combinations that I wonder if a trade off and put up with the side effects may not be the solution. LinC I now take Vanceril (double strength) 2 puffs, twice daily, Servevent the same, Atrovent 2 puffs, four times daily. I have noticed in the last few months that I am not as stable mentally as I was before taking the heavier dose of Vanceril. Primarily, I forget very easily on some very important things that I always thought I was good at remembering. I admit I am not a young man anymore at 68, but I have wondered if the vanceril has any possible connection to this. I cannot find any such information in the literature describing Vanceril. Except for the slightly sore throat I seem to contend with since starting on Vanceril I have had no outward reactions. I have not yet discussed this with my doctor for the simple reason that I would be introducing an entirely new ailment that may be a product of my emagination.:) Has anyone had or heard of any such mental disturbances from taking any of these medications? LinCLinCHi , this is my first time in a chat. I was looking for others who

have experienced the type of side effects my son displays. He is 5 and has been having occasional attacks since around 2. The docs would put him on liquid albuterol and prednisolone syrup. He would become extremely hyper (normal side effect, Alex calls it feeling crazy) He would also become dillusional (One time at the hospital he hid under the bed when the food cart rolled by)and have night terrors when he could finally fall asleep. His doctor then told us alupent is just as effective as the albuterol and using this instead seemed to reduce the reaction. He was experiencing wheezing a couple of weeks ago and was running down the hall screaming and crying because he thought his dad was going to "get him". I avoid giving him medication until he is really having trouble because the effects of the medicine are so extreme. All the doctors I’ve talked to say they have never heard of this and assure me that hyper activeness is normal but this is way beyond that. I would love to hear if any one else has heard of this happening. Thanks LH

Response:

Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

Where to buy/ what to buy–Nebulizer

Question:

We’re beginning to realize that our nebulizer is going to be with us for a while (we have two small children w/ asthma. We’d like to get a smaller, more portable nebulizer–although we’re not sure we really need a battery. (The AC/DC option seems nice, however.) I gather that the ultrasonics aren’t recommended for kids?–so I think we’re looking for the regular type. I’d like suggestions on which model to buy and where to get the best price–in the US. Thanks!

Response:

I purchased in ultrasonic AD/DC battery powered nebulizer for my two children and myself. I love mine and it was a very reasonable price at $149. It has made many trips with us and I love the fact that it is so small. As far as Ultrasonics not being good for children I have newver heard that and I think it is a personal preference. I did lots of research as to what to buy before I bought this unit. I disliked the fact that the compressor driven nebs were so slow and noisy. My new machine gives a treatment in under 10 mins with the adverage for 3cc of solution being about 6 mins. Its silent and has rechargeable battery so I can do a treatment anywhere and without causing a big fuss. I’ve been taking treatments while talking on the phone! It came with adult and child size face masks as well as the usual mouth piece. It came with all accessories.I got excellent customer service from Chris the therapist and got my unit with a few days of placing the order ready to go with the battery charged. I left the next day for a 1300 miles road trip. It went three days before I needed to recharge the battery again. Check out the web site: www.iclebr.com. The US office is located in Florida and the web site contains a phone number. For the money I would trade my new machine for anything in the world..and to think I was going to spend $400 to $600 on a devilbiss traveler. I wouldn’t eleminate the ultrasonics until you have tried one…I felt the same way you did after trying one brand of ultrasonic and the mist was too harsh…it was a omron. My PU12300 by icel has two different intensity settings so I can control the rate of nebulizaion which is great when I need a long deep treatment. Plus for the price I was really impressed. I found out about this company by another person on the newsgroup and I’ve been throughly pleased. As a matter of fact I’m getting ready to purchase another unit to replace our old devilbiss clunker that my daughter carries to school. Its a dinosaur and slow compared to our new unit. It will save her lots of recess time instead of sitting in the nurses office on the old noisey compressor. Good luck on your seach..E-mail if I can answer any questions in any way. "listen here ye little children and remember the truth how ever so pain, will set you free." Seek to find the joy in the truth…..

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I have a Devilbis regular pulmo-aid ($100), and in the car I have an AC adapter that I got in Radio Shack. I plug it into the cigarette lighter, and have used it that way. My son used it in Boy Scout Camp…we kept the car close to the tent site. Caryn

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Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

"false" asthma

Question:

My 7 month old son suddely got trouble breathing yesterday after having a cold for a couple of days, when we took him to the emergency room he was diagnosed with "false asthma" or "pseudoasthma". After being medicated with an inhalator we got bricanyl mixture to use at home. Does anyone know what "false asthma" is? Has it got anything to do with the real thing?etc.etc… If anyone knows anything at all about this condition, could you please Yours sincerely Solveig M Nystad

Response:

Following are 2 excerpts on asthma in infants from GINA (Global Initiative for Asthma 1993) at http://weber.u.washington.edu/d24/lgrouse/GINA_FINALS/WORKSHOP/WORKSHOP/ "Infancy Asthma may develop during the first few months of life, but it is often difficult to make a definite diagnosis until the child is older. In infants, the most common cause of bronchial wheezing is thought to be respiratory viral infections. There is a correlation of early wheeze with reduced lung function before the development of symptoms, suggesting that small lungs may be responsible for some infant wheezing that resolves with the child’s growth. Those children with asthma continue to wheeze in later childhood. However, recurring exacer-bations of asthma may be associated with exposure to allergens. In the susceptible infant, atopy appears to predispose the airways to sensitization by environmental allergens or irritants, and thus the infant may experience recurrent episodes of wheezing. In particular, early exposure to domestic mite, Alternaria, and animal allergens in high quantities seems to be important (see the chapters on risk factors and on mechanisms of asthma). During early childhood, wheezing and coughing episodes may occur at infrequent intervals; in some infants wheezing becomes more frequent and the asthma is well established at an early age. A recent study has demonstrated that the majority of 7-year-olds with airway hyperresponsiveness suffered from atopy as infants (57). A study concerning pulmonary development showed that asthma in infancy can result in a decrease in lung function of approximately 20 percent in adulthood, indicating the possible deleterious effect of asthma in the development of the lung (58), although a subsequent study did not confirm this (59)." "Childhood Asthma Asthma in childhood can present a particularly difficult problem largely because episodic wheezing and cough are among the most common symptoms encountered in childhood illnesses, particularly in the under-3-year-old (2). Although health care professionals are increasingly encouraged to make a positive diagnosis of asthma whenever recurrent wheezing, breathlessness, and cough occur (particularly if associated with nocturnal and early morning symptoms), the underlying nature of the disorder’s process may differ in infants from that in older children and adults (17). The use of the label "asthma" to describe such children has important clinical consequences. It implies a syndrome in which there is airway inflammation and for which there is a specific protocol of management. The younger the child, particularly below age 5, the greater the possibility of an alternative diagnosis for recurrent wheeze. Alternative causes of recurrent wheezing in infancy include cystic fibrosis, recurrent milk inhalation, primary ciliary dyskinesia syndrome, primary immune deficiency, congenital heart disease, congenital malformation causing narrowing of intrathoracic airways, and foreign body aspiration. Chest radiography is important as a diagnostic test to exclude alternative causes. Features such as a neonatal onset of symptoms, associated failure to thrive, vomiting-associated symptoms, and focal lung or cardiovascular signs all suggest an alternative diagnosis and indicate the need for investigations, such as a sweat test to exclude cystic fibrosis, measurements of immune function, and reflux studies. Among those with no alternative diagnosis, there is the possibility that the problem does not have a uniform underlying pathogenesis (2). Nonetheless, there are two general patterns of wheezing in infancy. Some infants who have recurrent episodes of wheeze associated with acute viral respiratory infections, often with a first episode in association with respiratory syncytial virus bronchiolitis, come from nonatopic families and have no evidence of atopy themselves (18, 19). These infants usually outgrow their symptoms in the preschool years and have no evidence of subsequent asthma, though they may have minor defects of lung function and airway hyperresponsiveness. This syndrome may have more to do with airway geometry than airway inflammation (20) and thus may differ mechanistically from the more established chronic inflammatory condition that underlies asthma in older children and adults. Other infants with asthma have an atopic background often associated with eczema and develop symptoms later in infancy that persist through childhood and into adult life (21). In these children, characteristic features of airway inflammation can be found even in infancy. However, there are no practical, clinical tests that can be done to establish the presence of airway inflammation. Only associated atopic problems can be used as a guide to prognosis. Early age (under 2 years) of onset of wheeze is a poor predictor of continuing problems in later childhood (2, 18, 19). It is likely that the issue of asthma associated with recurrent virus-related episodes and the later development of persistent asthma requires further study. Apart from the confusion over etiological mechanisms of asthma in childhood, there is also considerable reluctance in establishing a diagnosis and, as a consequence, initiating appropriate therapy. Because lower respiratory tract symptoms similar to symptoms of asthma are so common in childhood (and frequently occur in association with upper respiratory tract symptoms), either a correct diagnosis is not made or an inappropriate diagnosis is given, thereby depriving the child of antiasthma medication. Although in these young children there is the possibility of overtreatment, the episodes of wheezing may be foreshortened and reduced in intensity by the effective use of anti-inflammatory drugs and bronchodilators rather than antibiotics, and it is for this reason that health care professionals are encouraged to use the word "asthma" rather than other terminology to describe this syndrome. Asthma in all age groups may present only as repeated coughing especially at night, with exercise, and with viral illness, but these are particularly common forms of presentation of asthma in childhood. The presence of recurrent nocturnal cough in an otherwise healthy child should raise awareness of asthma as a probable diagnosis. Although repeated infections of the sinuses, tonsils, and adenoids may explain nocturnal coughing, the occurrence of this symptom awaking the child in the early hours of the morning is almost always diagnostic of asthma. Under the age of 5 years, the diagnosis of asthma has to rely largely on clinical judgment based on a combination of symptoms and physical findings. Because the measurement of airflow limitation and airway hyperresponsiveness in infants and small children requires complex equipment and is difficult (22), it can therefore only be recommended as a research tool. A trial of treatment is probably the most confident way in which a diagnosis of asthma can be secured in children (and in many adults as well). Prognostic features include a family history of asthma or eczema and presence of eczema in a young child with respiratory symptoms (19)."

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Category Categories: children's asthma treatment | No Comments »

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