Question:

Hi, I’m 38 years old I’ve been diagnosed with asthma for about 8 years now. In the last couple of months I’ve noticed that my asthma has made my energy levels drop. I borrowed a book from the local library on Buteyko methods which seemed to make some sense. Has anyone else tried some of these pratices?  Is it a worthwhile practise or is it a bandaid treatment. My other concern is that everywhere I go I read about the asthma epidemic and the correlations between an increase in asthma incidence and usage of medication.  Are there any up to date reports on this topic. thanks, Kulander Sydney Australia.

Response:

Kulander, The "asthma epidemic" seems to have peeked out according to studies by the Centers for Disease Control in the USA. At this time, they are looking at air pollution as the probable cause for the increase. Emory (as well as other universities)  got a bunch of money to test at least. You are correct that some people think the increase was do to antibiotic use. Specifically, they thought that the immune system wasn’t challenged in a more sterile environment and that lead to immune dysfunction (Th1 to Th2 shift).  Anyone know where the studies went on that issue? I stopped following that line when they proved that people with Chronic Fatigue didn’t have the immune disorder they thought (I have a son with CFS following Epstein Barr). Most people who study asthma professionally don’t subscribe to Buteyko theory. It is considered alternative medicine; so you should ask for information about it in a Buteyko newsgroup. There is some evidence however, that slowing your breathing will help with COPD, at least with the feeling that you are getting more air. It looks like I have Chronic Bronchitis/asthma of some type and I think slowing my breathing helps me. That idea of slowing breathing is also a component of Yoga. There are hundreds of asthma cures out there, from the cell salt believers on to various supplements  proponents (mostly containing antioxidants). Personally, I am glad you have found some relief, but before I go and try something that involves doing without my inhalers, I would really like to have some medical studies proving it is safe and effective. As much as we would all like to have a simple cure, studies on the Buteyko technique haven’t panned out.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m 38 years old I’ve been diagnosed with asthma for about 8 years now. In the last couple of months I’ve noticed that my asthma has made my energy levels drop. I borrowed a book from the local library on Buteyko methods which seemed to make some sense. Has anyone else tried some of these pratices?  Is it a worthwhile practise or is it a bandaid treatment. My other concern is that everywhere I go I read about the asthma epidemic and the correlations between an increase in asthma incidence and usage of medication.  Are there any up to date reports on this topic. thanks, Kulander Sydney Australia.

Response:

Hi, I’m 38 years old I’ve been diagnosed with asthma for about 8 years now.

Yes well worth following up. the best website is as follows www.wt.co.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm even just to get the basics, valuable for the ‘band aid’ situation if caught out with no inhaler etc.

Response:

I stopped in the newsgroup and they are dead for the last month except for a slam of this newsgroup. Someone will see your post though an tell you where they went.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kulander, The "asthma epidemic" seems to have peeked out according to studies by the Centers for Disease Control in the USA. At this time, they are looking at air pollution as the probable cause for the increase. Emory (as well as other universities)  got a bunch of money to test at least. You are correct that some people think the increase was do to antibiotic use. Specifically, they thought that the immune system wasn’t challenged in a more sterile environment and that lead to immune dysfunction (Th1 to Th2 shift). Anyone know where the studies went on that issue? I stopped following that line when they proved that people with Chronic Fatigue didn’t have the immune disorder they thought (I have a son with CFS following Epstein Barr). Most people who study asthma professionally don’t subscribe to Buteyko theory. It is considered alternative medicine; so you should ask for information about it in a Buteyko newsgroup. There is some evidence however, that slowing your breathing will help with COPD, at least with the feeling that you are getting more air. It looks like I have Chronic Bronchitis/asthma of some type and I think slowing my breathing helps me. That idea of slowing breathing is also a component of Yoga. There are hundreds of asthma cures out there, from the cell salt believers on to various supplements  proponents (mostly containing antioxidants). Personally, I am glad you have found some relief, but before I go and try something that involves doing without my inhalers, I would really like to have some medical studies proving it is safe and effective. As much as we would all like to have a simple cure, studies on the Buteyko technique haven’t panned out. Hi, I’m 38 years old I’ve been diagnosed with asthma for about 8 years now. In the last couple of months I’ve noticed that my asthma has made my energy levels drop. I borrowed a book from the local library on Buteyko methods which seemed to make some sense. Has anyone else tried some of these pratices?  Is it a worthwhile practise or is it a bandaid treatment. My other concern is that everywhere I go I read about the asthma epidemic and the correlations between an increase in asthma incidence and usage of medication.  Are there any up to date reports on this topic. thanks, Kulander Sydney Australia.

Response:

Hi, I’m 38 years old I’ve been diagnosed with asthma for about 8 years now. In the last couple of months I’ve noticed that my asthma has made my energy levels drop. I borrowed a book from the local library on Buteyko methods which seemed to make some sense. Has anyone else tried some of these pratices?  Is it a worthwhile practise or is it a bandaid treatment.

The Buteyko theory is unsupported by hard scientific evidence, which is why nearly all mainstream asthma physicians don’t believe in it. So long as it doesn’t interfere with the asthma treatment you are getting from your doctor, you can try it.  Just don’t expect it to work.  And tell your physician what you are doing.  They are far more interested in the "alternative" remedies their patients use, then we tend to think. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

I borrowed a book from the local library on Buteyko methods which seemed to make some sense.

If it seemed to make sense, then you didn’t look hard enough.  This theory was developed in the 1950s and since then – the supporters have never been able to validate the theory experimentally. The big thing that indicates that buyetko is an obsolete theory is the absolute refusal of its proponents to modify the theory to account for the new discoveries made about asthma as they happened over the past several decades. In order to believe the buteyko supporters you have to ignore 40 years of medical progress. Has anyone else tried some of these pratices?  Is it a worthwhile practise or is it a bandaid treatment.

At best, it is a bandaid treatment.  At worst it can prevent you from being able to accurately assess the severity of your asthma.   My other concern is that everywhere I go I read about the asthma epidemic and the correlations between an increase in asthma incidence and usage of medication.  Are there any up to date reports on this topic.

As far as I can tell it is completely logical that if the incidence of a disease increases, we should expect to see the use of the medications that treat the disease increase also. Think about it.  More cold/cough/flu medications are sold during the ‘cold and flu season’ than at other times.  This does not mean that these medications cause the diseases. If a buteyko supporter is where you got this from then you now have good evidence that he has no real clue as to what he is talking about. (Of course anybody who claims that people with a potentially life threatening illness should forgo the only _proven_ treatments in order to sell his snakeoil is scum of the earth.) "With Confidence in our Armed Forces –  with the determination of our people –  we will gain the inevitable triumph –  so help us god."   Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m 38 years old I’ve been diagnosed with asthma for about 8 years now. In the last couple of months I’ve noticed that my asthma has made my energy levels drop. I borrowed a book from the local library on Buteyko methods which seemed to make some sense. Has anyone else tried some of these pratices?  Is it a worthwhile practise or is it a bandaid treatment. The Buteyko theory is unsupported by hard scientific evidence, which is why nearly all mainstream asthma physicians don’t believe in it.

It has also not been proven in any studies – the only serious one I know of failed peer review and was considered flawed in several ways. So long as it doesn’t interfere with the asthma treatment you are getting from your doctor, you can try it.  Just don’t expect it to work.  And tell your physician what you are doing.  They are far more interested in the "alternative" remedies their patients use, then we tend to think.

– Five Cats

Response:

Thanks everyone for your responses. Given the types of responses I have received what I will do is to continue with my steriods, try and minimise the bronchilidators, and use some of the techniques as offered by buteyko. I may actually look at joining a yoga group as well. thank you, Kulander.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m 38 years old I’ve been diagnosed with asthma for about 8 years now. In the last couple of months I’ve noticed that my asthma has made my energy levels drop. I borrowed a book from the local library on Buteyko methods which seemed to make some sense. Has anyone else tried some of these pratices?  Is it a worthwhile practise or is it a bandaid treatment. My other concern is that everywhere I go I read about the asthma epidemic and the correlations between an increase in asthma incidence and usage of medication.  Are there any up to date reports on this topic. thanks, Kulander Sydney Australia.

Response:

Thanks everyone for your responses. Given the types of responses I have received what I will do is to continue with my steriods, try and minimise the bronchilidators, and use some of the techniques as offered by buteyko. I may actually look at joining a yoga group as well. thank you,

Please let us know how Buteyko works out for you. One reason why "alternative" remedies are always able to cite wonderful anecdotal "evidence" of their effectiveness, is because negative results and failures aren’t publicized as much.  Folks who found those remedies failed for them usually don’t bother to mention their negative results. So we get a very biased sample–the few who thought the remedy worked, hype it all over the Internet and news media; and the many who found it was worthless don’t discuss it. The news media would have an interesting story if just once, they solicited anecdotal stories from people who tried alternative remedies and found they didn’t work. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

So many people are looking for a natural cure. Personally, I would like some alternatives with less side effects than steroids, so I don’t blame people for looking. There are just so many of these groups out there. Not all of them can be right -I know when NIH tested Acupuncture and got a negative correlation with asthma improvement, the proponents of that group were upset, feeling they didn’t get a fair chance. Buteyko followers feel the same way. I personally think they are wrong that asthma is caused by overbreathing. If that were true, anyone could overbreathe intentionally for awhile and then test out asthmatic (they may get a panic diagnosis, but not asthma). My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. Hey, I know someone else who swears by Grape Seed extract. And another who thinks she was cured by Ginseng. Oh, don’t forget Magnesium. Somewhere on the internet I bet someone has compiled a list of all these asthma cures.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks everyone for your responses. Given the types of responses I have received what I will do is to continue with my steriods, try and minimise the bronchilidators, and use some of the techniques as offered by buteyko. I may actually look at joining a yoga group as well. thank you, Please let us know how Buteyko works out for you. One reason why "alternative" remedies are always able to cite wonderful anecdotal "evidence" of their effectiveness, is because negative results and failures aren’t publicized as much.  Folks who found those remedies failed for them usually don’t bother to mention their negative results. So we get a very biased sample–the few who thought the remedy worked, hype it all over the Internet and news media; and the many who found it was worthless don’t discuss it. The news media would have an interesting story if just once, they solicited anecdotal stories from people who tried alternative remedies and found they didn’t work. — Steven D. Litvintchouk

Response:

My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash.

I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber

Response:

Yes well worth following up. the best website is as follows

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pkolb+alex+bathroom&hl=en&selm=47dc4 64d82fb53cd4b2945f01a04f06e%40mixmaster.shinn.net&rnum=1 Received: (qmail 88072 messnum 1193253 invoked from network[194.125.134.190/ts02-063.dublin.indigo.ie]); 24 Mar 2002 18:19:29 -0000 Received: from ts02-063.dublin.indigo.ie (HELO wagon) (194.125.134.190) -0000 Dear all,  just to add to this thread of how to spread the message… Business Card:  I have one with all the usual personal details but in one corner is a heavy print word Buteyko.  I hand this out whenever anyone wants my number for any reason. I only follow up with details if asked about what the word means.  I carry another set of cardbord slips with Peter’s  website url address to pass on to those with access to a computer etc. I have sets of printouts also to pass on if the person is not computer friendly. The other idea we discussed years ago was to have a bumper sticker made for cars which is an american idea – in this country you could have a strip inside the back window or a side poster to advertise when parked.   Another suggestion is to print up the poster off Peter’s site, jazz it up a bit with colour maybe and make the website address lines more easy to tear off and then place these around in appropriate notice boards eg health clubs/clinics, vegetarian food/health food outlets, Asthma information days etc. Some time back, someone wrote an interesting piece on the spread of new ideas based on advertising industry experience, I think.  In essence he pointed out that for a new idea to take root it was significant that a person be exposed to the same information for several times from different directions for him to take notice.  So just seeing the word Buteyko on a tee shirt is important even if it might not generate a reaction at that time.  Gradually the Buteyko idea is spreading.  I am teaching a friend at them moment (not asthmatic) and she remembers the tape idea from hearing of a friend who had travelled to London at great expense with her asthmatic child some years ago. Take care, Anne.

Response:

Actually, my spell checker accepts it. Doesn’t yours? It is also in my dictionary. But it is a total waste of my time to defend something so petty.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber

Response:

I agree that the criticism is petty, and to me it is completely unacceptable. A convention of the net is that one does not criticise spelling and grammatical errors that do not change the sense of the communication. That said, I hope allot is in everyone’s dictionary and spell-checker, but that word does not have to do with quantity. "A lot" does. Iweber was not wrong, but simply impolite.       Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, my spell checker accepts it. Doesn’t yours? It is also in my dictionary. But it is a total waste of my time to defend something so petty. My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber

Response:

It’s in mine too.  UM MOM Susan, I also agree with the rest of the post

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree that the criticism is petty, and to me it is completely unacceptable. A convention of the net is that one does not criticise spelling and grammatical errors that do not change the sense of the communication. That said, I hope I is in everyone’s dictionary and spell-checker, but that word does not have to do with quantity. "A lot" does. Iweber was not wrong, but simply impolite.       Larry Actually, my spell checker accepts it. Doesn’t yours? It is also in my dictionary. But it is a total waste of my time to defend something so petty. "JAR" My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber

Response:

I will have to take more time and review before hitting the send button. Just think what someone from another language must go through trying to understand what we are talking about.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s in mine too.  UM MOM Susan, I also agree with the rest of the post I agree that the criticism is petty, and to me it is completely unacceptable. A convention of the net is that one does not criticise spelling and grammatical errors that do not change the sense of the communication. That said, I hope I is in everyone’s dictionary and spell-checker, but that word does not have to do with quantity. "A lot" does. Iweber was not wrong, but simply impolite.       Larry Actually, my spell checker accepts it. Doesn’t yours? It is also in my dictionary. But it is a total waste of my time to defend something so petty. "JAR" My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber

Response:

Thanks I needed a smile today.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will have to take more time and review before hitting the send button. Just think what someone from another language must go through trying to understand what we are talking about. It’s in mine too.  UM MOM Susan, I also agree with the rest of the post I agree that the criticism is petty, and to me it is completely unacceptable. A convention of the net is that one does not criticise spelling and grammatical errors that do not change the sense of the communication. That said, I hope I is in everyone’s dictionary and spell-checker, but that word does not have to do with quantity. "A lot" does. Iweber was not wrong, but simply impolite.       Larry "JAR" Actually, my spell checker accepts it. Doesn’t yours? It is also in my dictionary. But it is a total waste of my time to defend something so petty. "JAR" My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber

Response:

So many people are looking for a natural cure. Personally, I would like some alternatives with less side effects than steroids, so I don’t blame people for looking. There are just so many of these groups out there. Not all of them can be right -I know when NIH tested Acupuncture and got a negative correlation with asthma improvement, the proponents of that group were upset, feeling they didn’t get a fair chance. Buteyko followers feel the same way.

That’s the problem with proponents of "alternative" remedies.  They just can’t take "no" for an answer–and taking "no" is what separates science from faith healing. When a controlled study of shark cartilage on cancer showed no significant benefit, those proponents denounced the study too–each vendor claimed that *their* shark cartilege was better (but cited no scientific proof of that). Even worse, for decades there has been abundant scientific evidence that longer-term use of colloidal silver is toxic.  (That’s why mainstream medicine abandoned it.)  Yet this product continues to be sold over-the-counter, without even a warning label. When have any "alternative" remedies been voluntarily withdrawn from the market after scientific study has shown them to be either worthless or dangerous?  Name one.   I personally think they are wrong that asthma is caused by overbreathing. If that were true, anyone could overbreathe intentionally for awhile and then test out asthmatic (they may get a panic diagnosis, but not asthma). My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. Hey, I know someone else who swears by Grape Seed extract. And another who thinks she was cured by Ginseng. Oh, don’t forget Magnesium. Somewhere on the internet I bet someone has compiled a list of all these asthma cures.

www.quackwatch.com is a good place to start looking. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

Steven, I think that even the Buteyko followers think that some of their "fringes" have gone too far making claims. This is such a frustrating disease, you can see why people want to share if they find something that helps them. I just hope they don’t end up killing someone.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So many people are looking for a natural cure. Personally, I would like some alternatives with less side effects than steroids, so I don’t blame people for looking. There are just so many of these groups out there. Not all of them can be right -I know when NIH tested Acupuncture and got a negative correlation with asthma improvement, the proponents of that group were upset, feeling they didn’t get a fair chance. Buteyko followers feel the same way. That’s the problem with proponents of "alternative" remedies.  They just can’t take "no" for an answer–and taking "no" is what separates science from faith healing. When a controlled study of shark cartilage on cancer showed no significant benefit, those proponents denounced the study too–each vendor claimed that *their* shark cartilege was better (but cited no scientific proof of that). Even worse, for decades there has been abundant scientific evidence that longer-term use of colloidal silver is toxic.  (That’s why mainstream medicine abandoned it.)  Yet this product continues to be sold over-the-counter, without even a warning label. When have any "alternative" remedies been voluntarily withdrawn from the market after scientific study has shown them to be either worthless or dangerous?  Name one. I personally think they are wrong that asthma is caused by overbreathing. If that were true, anyone could overbreathe intentionally for awhile and then test out asthmatic (they may get a panic diagnosis, but not asthma). My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. Hey, I know someone else who swears by Grape Seed extract. And another who thinks she was cured by Ginseng. Oh, don’t forget Magnesium. Somewhere on the internet I bet someone has compiled a list of all these asthma cures. www.quackwatch.com is a good place to start looking. — Steven D. Litvintchouk

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steven, I think that even the Buteyko followers think that some of their "fringes" have gone too far making claims. This is such a frustrating disease, you can see why people want to share if they find something that helps them. I just hope they don’t end up killing someone. So many people are looking for a natural cure. Personally, I would like some alternatives with less side effects than steroids, so I don’t blame people for looking. There are just so many of these groups out there. Not all of them can be right -I know when NIH tested Acupuncture and got a negative correlation with asthma improvement, the proponents of that group were upset, feeling they didn’t get a fair chance. Buteyko followers feel the same way. That’s the problem with proponents of "alternative" remedies.  They just can’t take "no" for an answer–and taking "no" is what separates science from faith healing. When a controlled study of shark cartilage on cancer showed no significant benefit, those proponents denounced the study too–each vendor claimed that *their* shark cartilege was better (but cited no scientific proof of that). Even worse, for decades there has been abundant scientific evidence that longer-term use of colloidal silver is toxic.  (That’s why mainstream medicine abandoned it.)  Yet this product continues to be sold over-the-counter, without even a warning label. When have any "alternative" remedies been voluntarily withdrawn from the market after scientific study has shown them to be either worthless or dangerous?  Name one. I personally think they are wrong that asthma is caused by overbreathing. If that were true, anyone could overbreathe intentionally for awhile and then test out asthmatic (they may get a panic diagnosis, but not asthma). My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. Hey, I know someone else who swears by Grape Seed extract. And another who thinks she was cured by Ginseng. Oh, don’t forget Magnesium. Somewhere on the internet I bet someone has compiled a list of all these asthma cures. www.quackwatch.com is a good place to start looking. — Steven D. Litvintchouk

There are meds that are non-steroids available that help.  As for these herbs and such, you can look it up, but they can be dangerous, esp if you have a medical emergency.  Also remember that otc meds are not under any controls like the FDA.  This is extremely dangerous to those who have medical problems and take meds esp. a lot of them (15 last count).  If anyone decides to go to the otc they need to discuss it with their doctor and/or pharmacist.  Most of the time you are completely wasting your money. As a side note, The drug Lotronex which is a RX for IBS, was removed in the year 2001 I believe, after it killed and maimed lots.  I took this drug when I was diagnosed with IBS and ended up in surgery losing a good portion of my digestive system.  Now more have died and the FDA is getting ready to approve the release of this drug back to the people.  They knew during the testing stage that this drug had major problems and still allowed it to go on the fast track to be released.  The point of this is, any meds you take do your research and do it well.  Just because it is on the shelf or a RX can be written, doesn’t mean it can have serious side effects.  UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Actually, my spell checker accepts it. Doesn’t yours? It is also in my dictionary. But it is a total waste of my time to defend something so petty.

That just means it’s a known word – not that it’s correct in the context in which you are using it, which it isn’t. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber

– Five Cats

Response:

I AM OFFICIALLY APOLOGIZING to all you OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVES. . Good enough yet? I mean, you really don’t have enough to do with your time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, my spell checker accepts it. Doesn’t yours? It is also in my dictionary. But it is a total waste of my time to defend something so petty. That just means it’s a known word – not that it’s correct in the context in which you are using it, which it isn’t. My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber — Five Cats

Response:

when you were leaving. No one is here to support one another. They are just trying to fight off all the alternative medicine types. Good ideas on an alternative site?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steven, I think that even the Buteyko followers think that some of their "fringes" have gone too far making claims. This is such a frustrating disease, you can see why people want to share if they find something that helps them. I just hope they don’t end up killing someone. So many people are looking for a natural cure. Personally, I would like some alternatives with less side effects than steroids, so I don’t blame people for looking. There are just so many of these groups out there. Not all of them can be right -I know when NIH tested Acupuncture and got a negative correlation with asthma improvement, the proponents of that group were upset, feeling they didn’t get a fair chance. Buteyko followers feel the same way. That’s the problem with proponents of "alternative" remedies.  They just can’t take "no" for an answer–and taking "no" is what separates science from faith healing. When a controlled study of shark cartilage on cancer showed no significant benefit, those proponents denounced the study too–each vendor claimed that *their* shark cartilege was better (but cited no scientific proof of that). Even worse, for decades there has been abundant scientific evidence that longer-term use of colloidal silver is toxic.  (That’s why mainstream medicine abandoned it.)  Yet this product continues to be sold over-the-counter, without even a warning label. When have any "alternative" remedies been voluntarily withdrawn from the market after scientific study has shown them to be either worthless or dangerous?  Name one. I personally think they are wrong that asthma is caused by overbreathing. If that were true, anyone could overbreathe intentionally for awhile and then test out asthmatic (they may get a panic diagnosis, but not asthma). My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. Hey, I know someone else who swears by Grape Seed extract. And another who thinks she was cured by Ginseng. Oh, don’t forget Magnesium. Somewhere on the internet I bet someone has compiled a list of all these asthma cures. www.quackwatch.com is a good place to start looking. — Steven D. Litvintchouk There are meds that are non-steroids available that help.  As for these herbs and such, you can look it up, but they can be dangerous, esp if you have a medical emergency.  Also remember that otc meds are not under any controls like the FDA.  This is extremely dangerous to those who have medical problems and take meds esp. a lot of them (15 last count).  If anyone decides to go to the otc they need to discuss it with their doctor and/or pharmacist.  Most of the time you are completely wasting your money. As a side note, The drug Lotronex which is a RX for IBS, was removed in the year 2001 I believe, after it killed and maimed lots.  I took this drug when I was diagnosed with IBS and ended up in surgery losing a good portion of my digestive system.  Now more have died and the FDA is getting ready to approve the release of this drug back to the people.  They knew during the testing stage that this drug had major problems and still allowed it to go on the fast track to be released.  The point of this is, any meds you take do your research and do it well.  Just because it is on the shelf or a RX can be written, doesn’t mean it can have serious side effects.  UM MOM Susan

Response:

You know, another choice of support group, not more "cure yourself by injecting yourself with urine" alternative medicine stuff.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – when you were leaving. No one is here to support one another. They are just trying to fight off all the alternative medicine types. Good ideas on an alternative site? Steven, I think that even the Buteyko followers think that some of their "fringes" have gone too far making claims. This is such a frustrating disease, you can see why people want to share if they find something that helps them. I just hope they don’t end up killing someone. So many people are looking for a natural cure. Personally, I would like some alternatives with less side effects than steroids, so I don’t blame people for looking. There are just so many of these groups out there. Not all of them can be right -I know when NIH tested Acupuncture and got a negative correlation with asthma improvement, the proponents of that group were upset, feeling they didn’t get a fair chance. Buteyko followers feel the same way. That’s the problem with proponents of "alternative" remedies.  They just can’t take "no" for an answer–and taking "no" is what separates science from faith healing. When a controlled study of shark cartilage on cancer showed no significant benefit, those proponents denounced the study too–each vendor claimed that *their* shark cartilege was better (but cited no scientific proof of that). Even worse, for decades there has been abundant scientific evidence that longer-term use of colloidal silver is toxic.  (That’s why mainstream medicine abandoned it.)  Yet this product continues to be sold over-the-counter, without even a warning label. When have any "alternative" remedies been voluntarily withdrawn from the market after scientific study has shown them to be either worthless or dangerous?  Name one. I personally think they are wrong that asthma is caused by overbreathing. If that were true, anyone could overbreathe intentionally for awhile and then test out asthmatic (they may get a panic diagnosis, but not asthma). My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. Hey, I know someone else who swears by Grape Seed extract. And another who thinks she was cured by Ginseng. Oh, don’t forget Magnesium. Somewhere on the internet I bet someone has compiled a list of all these asthma cures. www.quackwatch.com is a good place to start looking. — Steven D. Litvintchouk There are meds that are non-steroids available that help.  As for these herbs and such, you can look it up, but they can be dangerous, esp if you have a medical emergency.  Also remember that otc meds are not under any controls like the FDA.  This is extremely dangerous to those who have medical problems and take meds esp. a lot of them (15 last count).  If anyone decides to go to the otc they need to discuss it with their doctor and/or pharmacist.  Most of the time you are completely wasting your money. As a side note, The drug Lotronex which is a RX for IBS, was removed in the year 2001 I believe, after it killed and maimed lots.  I took this drug when I was diagnosed with IBS and ended up in surgery losing a good portion of my digestive system.  Now more have died and the FDA is getting ready to approve the release of this drug back to the people.  They knew during the testing stage that this drug had major problems and still allowed it to go on the fast track to be released.  The point of this is, any meds you take do your research and do it well.  Just because it is on the shelf or a RX can be written, doesn’t mean it can have serious side effects.  UM MOM Susan

Response:

I have no problem with you what’s so ever.  I have never been to a group with so much pettyness.  Email me anytime.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I AM OFFICIALLY APOLOGIZING to all you OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVES. . Good enough yet? I mean, you really don’t have enough to do with your time. Actually, my spell checker accepts it. Doesn’t yours? It is also in my dictionary. But it is a total waste of my time to defend something so petty. That just means it’s a known word – not that it’s correct in the context in which you are using it, which it isn’t. "JAR" My observation of my own case is that I improved allot when I got an aircleaner in the bedroom and started the nasal wash. I’m surprised that Sheldon hasn’t made any comments about your wrong word usage. Instead of the word "allot" please use two words "a lot". Israel Weber — Five Cats

Response:

Question:

 But I’m sure you’ll want to go over it again.

And over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and overAnd over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and over And over and over and over and over and over and over and — Edward J. Mathes, RPA-C Physician Assistant Internal Medicine Opinions above are mine and mine alone. Opinions above are NOT medical advice. If you don’t like these opinions, make up some of your own. My spelling, syntax, denotation and grammar are perfect.  It is my typing that is bad. Get Paid to Surf the Web:  http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=ARG-758

Response:

                               HERBERT M. SHELTON                                       D. P., D. N. T., D. N. Sc.

What do all these intials mean?                             Founder and Director of Dr. Shelton’s Health School;                              President of the International School of Orthopathy.

What is "Orthopathy"? *[excerpt]* In 1926, 30 members of the Dallas (Tex) Chamber of Commerce cancelled their trip to Mexico because vaccination was required as a precedent to entrance. Nearly a 100 medical men, at a conference in Dallas, went to Mexico, after they obtained permission to enter without being vaccinated. Think this over before you submit your child to this evil and superstitious rite.

What is wrong with this?  Why did they go to Mexico?  Ws it for another conference or were they trying to prove something.  If it was a spur of the moment decision, immunization would be innefective anyway (was gamma globulin around then?).  What immunizations are we talking about?  Wellow Fever, Typhoid? Polio??     This criminal practice will end as soon as parents develop sufficient interest in the welfare of their children. At present parents offer up their children on the alters of the smallpox goddess, because commercial ghouls demand it and hope that the children will not be greatly injured.

I say it again….What a Maroon!  (FOr the unenlightened, maroon is moron as pronounced by everybody’s favorite rabbit). We certainly don’t see tens, hundreds, thousands,  tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, not even billions or more kids having significant side effects from their immunizations. Do you have any concept of the morbidity and mortality associated with certain communicable diseases in an un-immunized population?  Have YOU ever seen a child suffer from pertussis?  Someone die from tetanus?  COunseled someone sterile from mumps as a teenager or young adult?  Die from encephalitis? Indeed, done anything substantive except sit in front of a computer and spout drivel? Probably not. — Edward J. Mathes, RPA-C Physician Assistant Internal Medicine Opinions above are mine and mine alone. Opinions above are NOT medical advice. If you don’t like these opinions, make up some of your own. My spelling, syntax, denotation and grammar are perfect.  It is my typing that is bad. Get Paid to Surf the Web:  http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=ARG-758

Response:

have i told you happy dog, that i like vaccinations i am STILL waiting for serious research that will prove they do not work I’m still waiting for serious research that will prove they do work.  

The virtual eradication of polio, tetanus, pertussis, diptheria, etc, are not good enough for you, of course.  And all the reserach Merck had to do to prove that their new varicella (chickenpox) vaccine works won’t be good enough for you either.  Well, guess what?  Nobody cares if it’s good enough to satisfy you.  Nothing is going to be good enough to satisfy you. And any research at all into the long term effects.

Sure you are, John.  And if someone does a 20-year study, you’ll want a 40-year study.  You’re not waiting for any positive results, because you won’t accept them.   — David Wright :: wright at ibnets.com :: Not a Spokesman for Anyone      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "Let me through!  I got here late!"  – Homer Simpson

Response:

would someone PLEASE explain to me the problem with vaccinations and give me some REAL research that demonstrates this problem. http://whale.to/vaccines.html Some books to read.  The one by Scheibner has about 300 peer reviewed articles listed that document the fact vaccines don’t work.

Scheibner is a world champ at mis-citing the evidence.   — David Wright :: wright at ibnets.com :: Not a Spokesman for Anyone      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "Let me through!  I got here late!"  – Homer Simpson

Response:

I had cholera vaccinations and got sicker than ever 2 mos later after returning to Tx.; with very very swolen tonsils.

Swollen tonsils?  Two months after returning from Peru to Texas, how long after the cholera vaccine? Cholera:  An acute infection involving the entire small bowel, characterized by profuse watery diarrhea, vomiting, muscle cramps, dehydration, oliguria, and collapse. Swollen tonsils? Maybe something not related to cholera vaccne….but that would make too much sense. Cholera is epidemic in South America and the Gulf Coast of the US…as well as othr parts of the world. No problems with food in Peru it was back home fast food that caused me food poisoning!

BUT you could have picked up cholera….much worse than a run of the mill food poisoning!  Or Hepatitis A.  Or typhoid or any of the myriad of other communicable diseases aroind the world.  Edward J. Mathes, RPA-C Physician Assistant Internal Medicine Opinions above are mine and mine alone. Opinions above are NOT medical advice. If you don’t like these opinions, make up some of your own. My spelling, syntax, denotation and grammar are perfect.  It is my typing that is bad. Get Paid to Surf the Web:  http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=ARG-758

Response:

have i told you happy dog, that i like

vaccinations i am STILL waiting for serious research that will prove they do not work

I’m still waiting for serious research that will prove they do work.  And any research at all into the long term effects.

Response:

have i told you happy dog, that i like

arf, lick to vaccinations i am STILL waiting for serious research that will prove they do not work I’m still waiting for serious research that will prove they do work.  And any research at all into the long term effects.

The fact that so many diseases have been all but eradicated where vaccines are available is more than sufficient proof.  Your arguments have been demolished time and time again here and on sci.med.  Why do you pick such a hopeless cause to champion? erf

Response:

<ancient nonsense snipped In 1926, 30 members of the Dallas (Tex) Chamber of Commerce cancelled their trip to Mexico because vaccination was required as a precedent to entrance. Nearly a 100 medical men, at a conference in Dallas, went to Mexico, after they obtained permission to enter without being vaccinated. Think this over before you submit your child to this evil and superstitious rite.

1926, eh?  Have anything a little more recent to help your case?     This criminal practice will end as soon as parents develop sufficient interest in the welfare of their children. At present parents offer up their children on the alters of the smallpox goddess, because commercial ghouls demand it and hope that the children will not be greatly injured.

And where is smallpox now?     If a child is invalided for life or is killed, the parents meekly accept the lying alibies of the scoundrels who maim and murder children for money, cry a little, and return to their movies and joy rides.

Of course, should the child die "naturally", then praise the lord.  Their in a better place.     Reader do you know how Judas felt after he had sold his master for a few pieces of silver? If you have surrendered your child to be vaccinated and inoculated, after you learned the truth, you know how he felt. There is one great difference between you and him–Judas had decency enough to go out and hang himself.

Is this directed at moi?  At all the parents here?  Allo M. Ernie.  Je m’appelle ‘Appy Dog.  And, that’s one. I note that the previous poster asked for some real research that demonstrates the problem with vaccination.  I’d further that by saying that the research has to explain why so many diseases are prevented by vaccination, as demonstrated by hundreds of clinical trials and epidemiological studies. hd

Response:

would someone PLEASE explain to me the problem with vaccinations and give me some REAL research that demonstrates this problem. http://whale.to/vaccines.html Some books to read.  The one by Scheibner has about 300 peer reviewed articles listed that document the fact vaccines don’t work.

Bullshit.  Scheibner is a wholly discredited flake.  The argument that vaccinations haven’t been responsible for the eradication and control of numerous infectious diseases has been debunked ad nauseum.  But I’m sure you’ll want to go over it again. erf

Response:

vaccinations i am STILL waiting for serious research that will prove they do not work – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – would someone PLEASE explain to me the problem with vaccinations and give me some REAL research that demonstrates this problem. http://whale.to/vaccines.html Some books to read.  The one by Scheibner has about 300 peer reviewed articles listed that document the fact vaccines don’t work. Bullshit.  Scheibner is a wholly discredited flake.  The argument that vaccinations haven’t been responsible for the eradication and control of numerous infectious diseases has been debunked ad nauseum.  But I’m sure you’ll want to go over it again. erf

Response:

i may continue to read the site you posted but when it states such a boldfaced fallacy as the one that 50% of american children die before reaching maturity why should i take anything in it seriously. not to mention all the outdated resources cited in the drivel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THE  HYGIENIC CARE OF CHILDREN by [excerpt]                                HERBERT M. SHELTON                                       D. P., D. N. T., D. N. Sc. AUTHOR OF   Human Life, It’s Philosophy and Laws; Food and Feeding; Living Life to Live it Longer; Fundamentals of Nature Cure; The    Regeneration of Life; Natural Cure of Syphilis; Natural Cure of Tuberculosis; Tonsils and Adenoids; The Natural Cure of  Cancer; The Natural Cure of Hay Fever and Asthma; The Natural Cure of Diabetes and Bright’s Disease; Serum Poisoning, A     Medical Crime; The Menace of Vaccines and Serums; Orthotrophy–The Natural Diet of Man; The Scourges of Man;    Associate Editor of How to Live and The Progressive Health Builder; Founder and Editor of Wholesome Living; Former  Columnist in the New York Evening Graphic; Former Staff Writer for Physical Culture; Contributor to Many Health Magazines                                                and                             Founder and Director of Dr. Shelton’s Health School;                              President of the International School of Orthopathy. *[excerpt]* In 1926, 30 members of the Dallas (Tex) Chamber of Commerce cancelled their trip to Mexico because vaccination was required as a precedent to entrance. Nearly a 100 medical men, at a conference in Dallas, went to Mexico, after they obtained permission to enter without being vaccinated. Think this over before you submit your child to this evil and superstitious rite.     This criminal practice will end as soon as parents develop sufficient interest in the welfare of their children. At present parents offer up their children on the alters of the smallpox goddess, because commercial ghouls demand it and hope that the children will not be greatly injured.     If a child is invalided for life or is killed, the parents meekly accept the lying alibies of the scoundrels who maim and murder children for money, cry a little, and return to their movies and joy rides.     Reader do you know how Judas felt after he had sold his master for a few pieces of silver? If you have surrendered your child to be vaccinated and inoculated, after you learned the truth, you know how he felt. There is one great difference between you and him–Judas had decency enough to go out and hang himself. http://www.soilandhealth.org/02healthlibrary/0201hygienlib%7fcat/0201… —- Ernie would someone PLEASE explain to me the problem with vaccinations and give me some REAL research that demonstrates this problem.

Response:

THE  HYGIENIC CARE OF CHILDREN by [excerpt]                                HERBERT M. SHELTON                                       D. P., D. N. T., D. N. Sc. AUTHOR OF   Human Life, It’s Philosophy and Laws; Food and Feeding; Living Life to Live it Longer; Fundamentals of Nature Cure; The    Regeneration of Life; Natural Cure of Syphilis; Natural Cure of Tuberculosis; Tonsils and Adenoids; The Natural Cure of  Cancer; The Natural Cure of Hay Fever and Asthma; The Natural Cure of Diabetes and Bright’s Disease; Serum Poisoning, A     Medical Crime; The Menace of Vaccines and Serums; Orthotrophy–The Natural Diet of Man; The Scourges of Man;    Associate Editor of How to Live and The Progressive Health Builder; Founder and Editor of Wholesome Living; Former  Columnist in the New York Evening Graphic; Former Staff Writer for Physical Culture; Contributor to Many Health Magazines                                                and                             Founder and Director of Dr. Shelton’s Health School;                              President of the International School of Orthopathy. *[excerpt]* In 1926, 30 members of the Dallas (Tex) Chamber of Commerce cancelled their trip to Mexico because vaccination was required as a precedent to entrance. Nearly a 100 medical men, at a conference in Dallas, went to Mexico, after they obtained permission to enter without being vaccinated. Think this over before you submit your child to this evil and superstitious rite.     This criminal practice will end as soon as parents develop sufficient interest in the welfare of their children. At present parents offer up their children on the alters of the smallpox goddess, because commercial ghouls demand it and hope that the children will not be greatly injured.     If a child is invalided for life or is killed, the parents meekly accept the lying alibies of the scoundrels who maim and murder children for money, cry a little, and return to their movies and joy rides.     Reader do you know how Judas felt after he had sold his master for a few pieces of silver? If you have surrendered your child to be vaccinated and inoculated, after you learned the truth, you know how he felt. There is one great difference between you and him–Judas had decency enough to go out and hang himself. http://www.soilandhealth.org/02healthlibrary/0201hygienlib%7fcat/0201… —- Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – would someone PLEASE explain to me the problem with vaccinations and give me some REAL research that demonstrates this problem.

Response:

I had cholera vaccinations and got sicker than ever 2 mos later after returning to Tx.; with very very swolen tonsils. No problems with food in Peru it was back home fast food that caused me food poisoning! Ernie http://www.gtwn.net/~wgd/food_combining.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am going to India for the first time in my life. I don`t know wha shots I shall take and how to take care of my health there? Joanna

Response:

avoid the vaccines if possible, and the anti malaria medication–is it lariam? http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html

Oh, goody.  First Herby, then Jan, now Scudamore oozes back onto the newsgroup.  My week is complete.   [Actually, I'm being too harsh.  Scudamore is a useful barometer.  If he loves something, it's almost certainly bunk, and anything he's down on is probably worth considering.] I am going to India for the first time in my life. I don`t know wha shots I shall take and how to take care of my health there?

  — David Wright :: wright at ibnets.com :: Not a Spokesman for Anyone      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "Let me through!  I got here late!"  – Homer Simpson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – avoid the vaccines if possible, and the anti malaria medication–is it lariam? http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html Oh, goody.  First Herby, then Jan, now Scudamore oozes back onto the newsgroup.  My week is complete. I was just beginning to wonder if Herby and SCudamore were the same person, but then I remembered that despite his bizarre ideas, Scuddy can sometimes be funny. [Actually, I'm being too harsh.  Scudamore is a useful barometer.  If he loves something, it's almost certainly bunk, and anything he's down on is probably worth considering.] Jan and Herby are useful that way too.  Maybe they are members of the same conspiracy. AF

ArF ArF.   Don’t forget your flu vaccine—wouldn’t want to miss your yearly dose of flu. LOL.

Response:

would someone PLEASE explain to me the problem with vaccinations and give me some REAL research that demonstrates this problem. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – avoid the vaccines if possible, and the anti malaria medication–is it lariam? http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html Oh, goody.  First Herby, then Jan, now Scudamore oozes back onto the newsgroup.  My week is complete. I was just beginning to wonder if Herby and SCudamore were the same person, but then I remembered that despite his bizarre ideas, Scuddy can sometimes be funny. [Actually, I'm being too harsh.  Scudamore is a useful barometer.  If he loves something, it's almost certainly bunk, and anything he's down on is probably worth considering.] Jan and Herby are useful that way too.  Maybe they are members of the same conspiracy. AF ArF ArF.   Don’t forget your flu vaccine—wouldn’t want to miss your yearly dose of flu. LOL.

Response:

would someone PLEASE explain to me the problem with vaccinations and give me some REAL research that demonstrates this problem.

http://whale.to/vaccines.html Some books to read.  The one by Scheibner has about 300 peer reviewed articles listed that document the fact vaccines don’t work. VACCINE BOOKS: Reviews http://www.trufax.org/books/vaccine.html http://users.aol.com/lewcriss/private/nvc.htm New Atlantean http://www.new-atlantean.com/global/immun.html http://www.absoweb.com/immune/ CAFMR reviews http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/reviews1.html Vaccine interviews on tape http://www.garynull.com/radioschedule%201-12-98.htm VACCINE BOOKS: Vaccination: A Parents Dilemma by Greg Beattie (Australian) How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor —Mendelsohn,M.D. The Trial of The Medical Mafia by Joachim Schafer Confessions of a Medical Heretic—Dr Mendelsohn Dangers & Ineffectiveness Of Vaccines —Dr Viera Scheibner. Vaccination, Social Violence & Criminality —Harris Coulter A Shot In The Dark —Coulter & Fisher. Vaccination & Immunisation: Dangers, Delusions & Alternatives —– Chaitow. Vaccines: Are They Safe And Effective? —–Neil Miller Immunisation: Theory vs Reality —Neil Miller The Immunisation Decision —Randall Neustaedter The Medical Mafia—–Guylaine Lanctot, M.D. Every Second Child —-Archie Kalokerinos, M.D. Vitamin C, Nature

Question:

ASTHMA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND SALT SHORTAGE.

And I’m the Easter Bunny.  Got any science to back up this claim?

Response:

ASTHMA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND SALT SHORTAGE. And I’m the Easter Bunny.  Got any science to back up this claim?

Easter Bunny, huh?  Somehow I just can’t picture you with long, fuzzy ears… Nah, who was this idiot that posted the crap about dehdration and salt shortage causing asthma?  Can we wish on him the same fate those who listen to him will suffer? Loki

Response:

ASTHMA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND SALT SHORTAGE. And I’m the Easter Bunny.  Got any science to back up this claim? Easter Bunny, huh?  Somehow I just can’t picture you with long, fuzzy ears…

If my asthma is due to a lack of salt, then bring on the cow lick! (I’m just kidding! That would be gross!!!) Janel =)

Response:

The whole medical community is "ignorant" and you have the answer. Way to go, you must be a genius. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ASTHMA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND SALT SHORTAGE. And I’m the Easter Bunny.  Got any science to back up this claim? Easter Bunny, huh?  Somehow I just can’t picture you with long, fuzzy ears… If my asthma is due to a lack of salt, then bring on the cow lick! (I’m just kidding! That would be gross!!!)

I don’t see how mine could be due to a lack of salt.  Heck, I put salt on ham… Loki

Response:

All asthma medication only treats symptoms. If you want to cure asthma you have to address the root cause of the problem. ASTHMA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND SALT SHORTAGE. The lungs need an adequate and regular supply of water to function correctly. If they don’t get it problems can arise. Water is needed to keep the airways moist so that they won’t dry out during the act of breathing. The equivalent of a few glasses of water is used up by the lungs over the course of a day. When the body becomes dehydrated it will attempt to preserve and ration what little water it has. Since a lot of water is lost from the lungs in the form of water vapour in the exhaled air it will limit this loss by causing bronchial constriction. The agent which brings this about is histamine, which is the body’s water metabolism regulator. (Histamine also has other functions but the medical community is largely ignorant of its water regulatory role.) Salt shortage is equally symptom-producing for asthmatics. Salt shortage can cause increased histamine production in the lung tissue, leading to bronchial constriction. Salt is also needed to break up the mucus which develops to protect the lungs from drying out. Salt makes the mucus more watery so that it can be more easily expelled from the lungs–this is why phlegm tastes salty. The mucus tends to stay put if there are insufficient reserves of salt to break it up. This mucus build-up will lead to congestion and increased difficulty in breathing.   All asthmatics should ensure that they consume adequate quantities of water and salt. At least 2 litres (quarts) of water should be consumed per day (coffee, tea, sodas, alcohol etc don’t count). The best times to drink water are half an hour before meals and a couple of hours after them, as well as first thing in the morning and last thing at night. For every 2 litres of water consumed, 3 grams of salt (about half a teaspoon) should be added to the diet. The following is a link to Dr F Batmanghelidj’s website: http://www.watercure.com/medicalreport.htm                                

Response:

uh just to duck in here.    I believe recently there’s been a sloppier use of the word "asthma" to refer to any sort of breathing problem, but as I understand it "asthma" is by definition excessive histamine release.

Actually, asthma is a chronic inflammatory disease of the airways. Here is an excerpt from the 1997 Asthma Treatment Guidelines: "Based on current knowledge, a working definition of asthma is: Asthma is a chronic inflammatory disorder of the airways in which many cells and cellular elements play a role, in particular, mast cells, eosinophils, T lymphocytes, macrophages, neutrophils, and epithelial cells. In susceptible individuals, this inflammation causes recurrent episodes of wheezing, breathlessness, chest tightness, and coughing, particularly at night or in the early morning. These episodes are usually associated with widespread but variable airflow obstruction that is often reversible either spontaneously or with treatment. The inflammation also causes an associated increase in the existing bronchial hyperresponsiveness to a variety of stimuli (NHLBI 1995). Moreover, recent evidence indicates that subbasement membrane fibrosis may occur in some patients with asthma and that these changes contribute to persistent abnormalities in lung function (Roche 1991)." Source: http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/guide/guidelin/pathog…

Response:

uh just to duck in here.    I believe recently there’s been a sloppier use of the word "asthma" to refer to any sort of breathing problem, but as I understand it "asthma" is by definition excessive histamine release. Actually, asthma is a chronic inflammatory disease of the airways.

Well, maybe in my attempt to avoid one sort of sloppiness, I may have fallen into another.  I was trying to distinguish between the recognition of asthma as an inflammatory disease (as you say), which I believe is correct, and those sloppier uses where "asthma" is used to denote shortness of breath, or those mythologies (still unfortunately persistent) that associate asthma with emotional factors. As for my own sloppiness, I guess I am not totally familiar with the specific biological mechanisms that asthma involves.  But surely histamine plays some role?  Isn’t the inflammation you note an "overreaction" on the part of the immune system similar to an allergic reaction?  As I understand it, can’t blood tests confirm the presence of asthma by an elevated count of certain cell types? Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Here is an excerpt from the 1997 Asthma Treatment Guidelines: "Based on current knowledge, a working definition of asthma is: Asthma is a chronic inflammatory disorder of the airways in which many cells and cellular elements play a role, in particular, mast cells, eosinophils, T lymphocytes, macrophages, neutrophils, and epithelial cells. In susceptible individuals, this inflammation causes recurrent episodes of wheezing, breathlessness, chest tightness, and coughing, particularly at night or in the early morning. These episodes are usually associated with widespread but variable airflow obstruction that is often reversible either spontaneously or with treatment. The inflammation also causes an associated increase in the existing bronchial hyperresponsiveness to a variety of stimuli (NHLBI 1995). Moreover, recent evidence indicates that subbasement membrane fibrosis may occur in some patients with asthma and that these changes contribute to persistent abnormalities in lung function (Roche 1991)." Source: http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/guide/guidelin/pathog…

hdef.htm

Response:

 Will a gallon a day  cure asthma? How much salt do I need?  Should I put salt on my toast too.   As I see it Mr. Hobbs lacks common sense. Who here really believes that not one asthmic out there gets enought salt, or water in their diet?

Actually, prior to being diagnosed with asthma I had a problem with dehydration injuries while doing military training in the desert. Once I started asthma control medications this problem went away. Presumably, this is because dehydration is a side effect of asthma. (As indicated in the Mereck manual.)

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I guess business would suffer if it were true that there was a simple, natural cure for asthma–huh, doc?

See, not only do these purveyors of quackery always fail to back up their claims, they always use this ad hominem attack to justify their BS. "There’s a simple cure for {cancer, asthma, colitis, heart disease} but the evil medical community (who of course have a lot to gain by keeping people ignorant) is suppressing the facts" Of course, you know, anyone whose assertions rely for their force on the supposed mendacity of others is by defintion not to be trusted. Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive:  yes   ALL asthma is the result of excessive histamine release in the lung tissue. It’s the histamine that causes the bronchioles to constrict. References please…..current 1995 or later?????  Since asthma is such a heterogeneous disease I find it difficult to see where ALL asthma could be due to excessive histamine release alone.  If so, what is the mechanism, gene position etc and how did you figure this out when the majority of the medical community has not?  Just curious…..

uh just to duck in here.    I believe recently there’s been a sloppier use of the word "asthma" to refer to any sort of breathing problem, but as I understand it "asthma" is by definition excessive histamine release. And secondly, I believe this "simple cure" to be drivel of course, but I’m wondering about an odd wrinkle.  I’m on predisone right now (not for asthma) and one of the side-effects (as I’m sure all are aware) is excessive salt and water retention.  If I were to further increase my salt and water intake, I’d likely explode. Martin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Janine

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  Will a gallon a day  cure asthma? How much salt do I need?  Should I put salt on my toast too.   As I see it Mr. Hobbs lacks common sense. Who here really believes that not one asthmic out there gets enought salt, or water in their diet?    

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I guess business would suffer if it were true that there was a simple, natural cure for asthma–huh, doc?

That’s a rude statement to make to anyone. Yeah there might be people who are like that but there are also people who are not like it and do you have the right to decide who is? Renae

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If you say so. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "It has recently become obvious that histamine is the body’s water metabolism regulator. It is in charge of water intake and its distribution in the body:" This is far from obvious. Silly me, all this time I thought it was ANP, ADH, and Renin. Maybe there is more than one. Maybe Histamine is just one of the "minor players". Maybe not. Histamine is the "major player" in water intake and distribution. It directs the actions of its subordinates vasopressin, reninangiotensin, prostaglandins, kinins and PAF.

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The observation that EIA tends to occur soon after the initiation of excersize and then subside as excersize continues would seem to contradict this hypothesis. If it was due to dehydration you would expect the respiratory symptoms to be progressive as the excersize and hence the dehydration progress. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for its defense role, to also be released. If enough attention is paid to water and salt intake the triggers will cease to be triggers. that might work for SOME asthma…I don’t know. but those of us with EXERCISE INDUCED asthma aren’t having histamine problems, it has nothing to do with allergens. ALL asthma is the result of excessive histamine release in the lung tissue. It’s the histamine that causes the bronchioles to constrict. Exercise-induced asthma occurs because you become dehydrated during physical exertion. If you consume enough water (and salt) before and during exercise your condition should improve.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for its defense role, to also be released. If enough attention is paid to water and salt intake the triggers will cease to be triggers. that might work for SOME asthma…I don’t know. but those of us with EXERCISE INDUCED asthma aren’t having histamine problems, it has nothing to do with allergens. ALL asthma is the result of excessive histamine release in the lung tissue. It’s the histamine that causes the bronchioles to constrict. Exercise-induced asthma occurs because you become dehydrated during physical exertion. If you consume enough water (and salt) before and during exercise your condition should improve.

ddd

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"It has recently become obvious that histamine is the body’s water metabolism regulator. It is in charge of water intake and its distribution in the body:" This is far from obvious. Silly me, all this time I thought it was ANP, ADH, and Renin. Maybe there is more than one. Maybe Histamine is just one of the "minor players". Maybe not.

Histamine is the "major player" in water intake and distribution. It directs the actions of its subordinates vasopressin, reninangiotensin, prostaglandins, kinins and PAF.

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for its defense role, to also be released. If enough attention is paid to water and salt intake the triggers will cease to be triggers. that might work for SOME asthma…I don’t know. but those of us with EXERCISE INDUCED asthma aren’t having histamine problems, it has nothing to do with allergens.

ALL asthma is the result of excessive histamine release in the lung tissue. It’s the histamine that causes the bronchioles to constrict. Exercise-induced asthma occurs because you become dehydrated during physical exertion. If you consume enough water (and salt) before and during exercise your condition should improve.

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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <The whole medical community is "ignorant" and you have the answer. Way to <go, you must be a genius. I never said the whole medical community is ignorant. I said the majority of them are and it looks like you fall into this category. It has recently become obvious that histamine is the body’s water metabolism regulator. It is in charge of water intake and its distribution in the body: Batmanghelidj, F :"Neurotransmitter Histamine: An Alternative View Point", Book of Abstracts, 3rd Interscience World Conference on Inflammation, Monte Carlo, March 1989. Of course, histamine also plays a part in the defense of the body against foreign agents. The hyperactive immune system response of asthmatics to allergens and  other triggers occurs because the histamine release resulting from dehydration causes yet further histamine, which has been held in storage for its defense role, to also be released. If enough attention is paid to water and salt intake the triggers will cease to be triggers.

that might work for SOME asthma…I don’t know. but those of us with EXERCISE INDUCED asthma aren’t having histamine problems, it has nothing to do with allergens. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I guess business would suffer if it were true that there was a simple, natural cure for asthma–huh, doc?

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"It has recently become obvious that histamine is the body’s water metabolism regulator. It is in charge of water intake and its distribution in the body:" This is far from obvious. Silly me, all this time I thought it was ANP, ADH, and Renin. Maybe there is more than one. Maybe Histamine is just one of the "minor players". Maybe not. "If enough attention is paid to water and salt intake the triggers will cease to be triggers. I guess business would suffer if it were true that there was a simple, natural cure for asthma–huh, doc?" I regularly advise people on the importance of avoiding triggers to reduce asthma symptoms. I would not lose money by adding this to the list of triggers to avoid. It also does not affect me one way or the other if I prescribe salt and fluid rather than, or in addition to, an inhaler. Trust me, there is enough pathology around to keep me in business for a long time. Everyone will eventually get sick. No one lives forever. The demographics may change but the basic facts remain the same. People who keep bringing up the theory that doctors don’t want to cure disease just can’t seem to grasp this (or they ignore it). As I have said before, medicine in most areas is competitive. If my patients were getting better while others weren’t, I would soon be very busy. Wouldn’t you go see a doctor who was gaining a reputation for being the best in the area at treating your disease ? — Good Luck, CBI, M.D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <The whole medical community is "ignorant" and you have the answer. Way to <go, you must be a genius. I never said the whole medical community is ignorant. I said the majority of them are and it looks like you fall into this category. It has recently become obvious that histamine is the body’s water metabolism regulator. It is in charge of water intake and its distribution in the body: Batmanghelidj, F :"Neurotransmitter Histamine: An Alternative View Point", Book of Abstracts, 3rd Interscience World Conference on Inflammation, Monte Carlo, March 1989. Of course, histamine also plays a part in the defense of the body against foreign agents. The hyperactive immune system response of asthmatics to allergens and  other triggers occurs because the histamine release resulting from dehydration causes yet further histamine, which has been held in storage for its defense role, to also be released. If enough attention is paid to water and salt intake the triggers will cease to be triggers. I guess business would suffer if it were true that there was a simple, natural cure for asthma–huh, doc?

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I don’t see how mine could be due to a lack of salt.  Heck, I put salt on ham…

No, no, no–you’re supposed to put it on spam, of course. (^_^)          Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com), from grimy Tokyo

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<The whole medical community is "ignorant" and you have the answer. Way to <go, you must be a genius. I never said the whole medical community is ignorant. I said the majority of them are and it looks like you fall into this category. It has recently become obvious that histamine is the body’s water metabolism regulator. It is in charge of water intake and its distribution in the body: Batmanghelidj, F :"Neurotransmitter Histamine: An Alternative View Point", Book of Abstracts, 3rd Interscience World Conference on Inflammation, Monte Carlo, March 1989. Of course, histamine also plays a part in the defense of the body against foreign agents. The hyperactive immune system response of asthmatics to allergens and  other triggers occurs because the histamine release resulting from dehydration causes yet further histamine, which has been held in storage for its defense role, to also be released. If enough attention is paid to water and salt intake the triggers will cease to be triggers. I guess business would suffer if it were true that there was a simple, natural cure for asthma–huh, doc?

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But folks we are forgetting about the water part of this curer.  Sorry, I have to run to the bathroom so I don’t have time to type that in.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ASTHMA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND SALT SHORTAGE. And I’m the Easter Bunny.  Got any science to back up this claim? Easter Bunny, huh?  Somehow I just can’t picture you with long, fuzzy ears… If my asthma is due to a lack of salt, then bring on the cow lick! (I’m just kidding! That would be gross!!!) Janel =)

test

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ASTHMA IS A PHYSIOLOGICAL ADAPTATION OF THE BODY TO DEHYDRATION AND SALT

SHORTAGE. What planet are you from?

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one teeny, tiny caveat. don’t take ginkgo if you take blood thinners such as coumadin. other than that, this info seems to be the real thing–not spam or hyperbole. jane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thursday, January 1, 1998 Miraculous, Ancient, Venerable Ginkgo Bilboa In my last newsletter on Vitamin E, I mentioned that Ginkgo Bilboa had been recently shown to have very positive influence  of reducing  the negative effects of Alzheimer