Question:

I am glad to see that you are keeping a sense of humor about the whole mess. Yeah that monster likes to use any type of ailment to make us miserable. You are doing the best that anyone can expect.  Keep breathing slow and deep.  It will get a little better.  :)J — "Just when you think life sucks, someone hands you a vacuum cleaner; it is at this time you start cleaning some house". J  Visit me at:  http://members.ync.net/jdgalvin/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group Husband is away for three days so am lacking in support this evening.  Son is tired and bad tempered and anyway what 17 year old boy, as nice as he is, wants to listen to his mother ranting on. Went to the docs this morning to have my new tablets dose increased.  Asthma is diabolical at present.  Had previously been given relief spray containing adrenalin – wonderful it increased the panic attacks and therefore increased the asthma!!!!  Asked if I could try something else for relief to fill the time before my appointment at the Chest Hospital.  Doctor decided to have another listen to my lungs first and was horrified – full of horrid noises!! Result instant panic by me – must at least have chronic heart problems or a lung tumour!!!!  She said I am simply forgetting how to breath properly and must try to take deep breaths – impossible whilst suffering so badly from asthma.  Would like her to try (although I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.)  As soon as I try to take a deep breath I cant stop coughing and have an asthma attack.  Have now been put on five days worth of oral steroids.  Last time this happened I felt wonderful.  Think it might be worth gaining 15 stone and growing a beard and hairy chest just to feel well!!!  Seriously though,  apparently the oral steroids will sort out asthma but not panic attacks so will give her more idea of what relief spray to give me. Have to go back next week. Had a good afternoon with sympathetic friend, but she has gone home now.  I am typing her Uni MA dissertation and at least it gives my brain something else to think about. I am also fighting a legal case against my last employers who started all this horror up. Good news – Husband has a new and better paid job and we are not quite so destitute – although he will have to be away from home more.  He is probably secretly pleased to get away from his mad wife. Still, I still have my cats and dog to talk to and who love me through thick and thin and I still have the ability to be moved by the music of Radiohead, REM, and Sting at the ripe old age of 53 and have painted my toenails purple and made my hair stand up on end with gel – so there’s life in the old girl yet! Love to you all. Ann What a load of rambling!!! * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find

related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Husband is away for three days so am lacking in support this evening.  Son is tired and bad tempered and anyway what 17 year old boy, as nice as he is, wants to listen to his mother ranting on. Went to the docs this morning to have my new tablets dose increased.  Asthma is diabolical at present.  Had previously been given relief spray containing adrenalin – wonderful it increased the panic attacks and therefore increased the asthma!!!!  Asked if I could try something else for relief to fill the time before my appointment at the Chest Hospital.  Doctor decided to have another listen to my lungs first and was horrified – full of horrid noises!! Result instant panic by me – must at least have chronic heart problems or a lung tumour!!!!  She said I am simply forgetting how to breath properly and must try to take deep breaths – impossible whilst suffering so badly from asthma.  Would like her to try (although I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.)  As soon as I try to take a deep breath I cant stop coughing and have an asthma attack.  Have now been put on five days worth of oral steroids.  Last time this happened I felt wonderful.  Think it might be worth gaining 15 stone and growing a beard and hairy chest just to feel well!!!  Seriously though,  apparently the oral steroids will sort out asthma but not panic attacks so will give her more idea of what relief spray to give me. Have to go back next week. Had a good afternoon with sympathetic friend, but she has gone home now.  I am typing her Uni MA dissertation and at least it gives my brain something else to think about. I am also fighting a legal case against my last employers who started all this horror up. Good news – Husband has a new and better paid job and we are not quite so destitute – although he will have to be away from home more.  He is probably secretly pleased to get away from his mad wife. Still, I still have my cats and dog to talk to and who love me through thick and thin and I still have the ability to be moved by the music of Radiohead, REM, and Sting at the ripe old age of 53 and have painted my toenails purple and made my hair stand up on end with gel – so there’s life in the old girl yet! Love to you all. Ann

Ann, I dig listening to people who ramble, being as I’m not much of a talker myself. Ramble on anytime you feel like it Good luck with your legal case and remain strong, it’ll be a tough battle, but a few rock fans on the board, myself included. This is OT but when I was younger, I looked up to the people that labeled themselves "alternative", they were much different than the alternative people now though lol They listened to The Cure, REM, Bauhuaus(sp?) etc… I was just a lil punk metalhead who enjoyed all types of music secretly. Keep it up, and remember your hair can never be too high. Angie

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Hi Ann and all,   I also have Asthma and pic attacks(not to mention chronic pain) which im on meds for! I love Punk Rock too.Im 41 and a musician and songwriter.I was in a punk bqnd in the early 80,s. We played all over the world and made records etc…..Hey girls,Im also single and looking.Can you guess how hard it is to find who likes this music?Damn.near impossible here in Naples, Fl  !! So if any of y.all know of any women(singe) aroung my age who are into out type of music.Give them my e-mail please. Thanks all you bueatiful punk rock lovin women! Terry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group Husband is away for three days so am lacking in support this evening.  Son is tired and bad tempered and anyway what 17 year old boy, as nice as he is, wants to listen to his mother ranting on. Went to the docs this morning to have my new tablets dose increased.  Asthma is diabolical at present.  Had previously been given relief spray containing adrenalin – wonderful it increased the panic attacks and therefore increased the asthma!!!!  Asked if I could try something else for relief to fill the time before my appointment at the Chest Hospital.  Doctor decided to have another listen to my lungs first and was horrified – full of horrid noises!! Result instant panic by me – must at least have chronic heart problems or a lung tumour!!!!  She said I am simply forgetting how to breath properly and must try to take deep breaths – impossible whilst suffering so badly from asthma.  Would like her to try (although I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.)  As soon as I try to take a deep breath I cant stop coughing and have an asthma attack.  Have now been put on five days worth of oral steroids.  Last time this happened I felt wonderful.  Think it might be worth gaining 15 stone and growing a beard and hairy chest just to feel well!!!  Seriously though,  apparently the oral steroids will sort out asthma but not panic attacks so will give her more idea of what relief spray to give me. Have to go back next week. Had a good afternoon with sympathetic friend, but she has gone home now.  I am typing her Uni MA dissertation and at least it gives my brain something else to think about. I am also fighting a legal case against my last employers who started all this horror up. Good news – Husband has a new and better paid job and we are not quite so destitute – although he will have to be away from home more.  He is probably secretly pleased to get away from his mad wife. Still, I still have my cats and dog to talk to and who love me through thick and thin and I still have the ability to be moved by the music of Radiohead, REM, and Sting at the ripe old age of 53 and have painted my toenails purple and made my hair stand up on end with gel – so there’s life in the old girl yet! Love to you all. Ann What a load of rambling!!!

Hello Ann, you’ve just made an ageing punk (41, oh dear) feel a bit better. I mean if an old gal of 53 (VBG) can listen to Radiohead i can carry on listening to own long and boring list of any alternative/underground bands you can think of from the last 35 years and i’ll probably like them.                 If i did’nt have a number 2 crop i would also get out the gel and make my hair stand on end in your honour but i draw the line at painting my toenails purple.                             Best wishes,                                 Ken.         "But i’m a creep, i’m a weirdo"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – desparate this evening Dear Group Husband is away for three days so am lacking in support this evening.  Son is tired and bad tempered and anyway what 17 year old boy, as nice as he is, wants to listen to his mother ranting on. Went to the docs this morning to have my new tablets dose increased.  Asthma is diabolical at present.  Had previously been given relief spray containing adrenalin – wonderful it increased the panic attacks and therefore increased the asthma!!!!  Asked if I could try something else for relief to fill the time before my appointment at the Chest Hospital.  Doctor decided to have another listen to my lungs first and was horrified – full of horrid noises!! Result instant panic by me – must at least have chronic heart problems or a lung tumour!!!!  She said I am simply forgetting how to breath properly and must try to take deep breaths – impossible whilst suffering so badly from asthma.  Would like her to try (although I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.)  As soon as I try to take a deep breath I cant stop coughing and have an asthma attack.  Have now been put on five days worth of oral steroids.  Last time this happened I felt wonderful.  Think it might be worth gaining 15 stone and growing a beard and hairy chest just to feel well!!!  Seriously though,  apparently the oral steroids will sort out asthma but not panic attacks so will give her more idea of what relief spray to give me. Have to go back next week. Had a good afternoon with sympathetic friend, but she has gone home now.  I am typing her Uni MA dissertation and at least it gives my brain something else to think about. I am also fighting a legal case against my last employers who started all this horror up. Good news – Husband has a new and better paid job and we are not quite so destitute – although he will have to be away from home more.  He is probably secretly pleased to get away from his mad wife. Still, I still have my cats and dog to talk to and who love me through thick and thin and I still have the ability to be moved by the music of Radiohead, REM, and Sting at the ripe old age of 53 and have painted my toenails purple and made my hair stand up on end with gel – so there’s life in the old girl yet! Love to you all. Ann What a load of rambling!!!

Hi Ann! Loved your rambling!  LOL!!  I’m 47 and still love rock music, along with other types too, though.  Purple, huh?  Nice color.  I’m glad your husband has a better job.  This may, in itself, relax you a little more.  I’m sorry you have such bad asthma.  I know a lot of people who do, but fortunately, they don’t get PAs with it.  I wish you the best on your legal case with ex-employers. You are funny, even when you are down a bit!  Good for you! Di

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – desparate this evening Hi Ann, ramble on all that you want.  This is about the only place where people understand your anxiety and how it antagonizes other conditions.  I’ve had to take steroids this year for my allergy, and I do understand what you mean about weight gain.  When all else fails, what can you do? Mel Dear Group Husband is away for three days so am lacking in support this evening.  Son is tired and bad tempered and anyway what 17 year old boy, as nice as he is, wants to listen to his mother ranting on. Went to the docs this morning to have my new tablets dose increased.  Asthma is diabolical at present.  Had previously been given relief spray containing adrenalin – wonderful it increased the panic attacks and therefore increased the asthma!!!!  Asked if I could try something else for relief to fill the time before my appointment at the Chest Hospital.  Doctor decided to have another listen to my lungs first and was horrified – full of horrid noises!! Result instant panic by me – must at least have chronic heart problems or a lung tumour!!!!  She said I am simply forgetting how to breath properly and must try to take deep breaths – impossible whilst suffering so badly from asthma.  Would like her to try (although I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.)  As soon as I try to take a deep breath I cant stop coughing and have an asthma attack.  Have now been put on five days worth of oral steroids.  Last time this happened I felt wonderful.  Think it might be worth gaining 15 stone and growing a beard and hairy chest just to feel well!!!  Seriously though,  apparently the oral steroids will sort out asthma but not panic attacks so will give her more idea of what relief spray to give me. Have to go back next week. Had a good afternoon with sympathetic friend, but she has gone home now.  I am typing her Uni MA dissertation and at least it gives my brain something else to think about. I am also fighting a legal case against my last employers who started all this horror up. Good news – Husband has a new and better paid job and we are not quite so destitute – although he will have to be away from home more.  He is probably secretly pleased to get away from his mad wife. Still, I still have my cats and dog to talk to and who love me through thick and thin and I still have the ability to be moved by the music of Radiohead, REM, and Sting at the ripe old age of 53 and have painted my toenails purple and made my hair stand up on end with gel – so there’s life in the old girl yet! Love to you all. Ann What a load of rambling!!!

just remember that as bad as the side effects of steroids are they will save your life in these circumstances-for asthma they are numero uno for a first line med to quickly reduce the airway inflamation once you accomplish this there are many other meds that may help as a contnuous treatment-asthma can kill so your fortunate to have the availability of the meds. some people look good with moon faces anyway-they’re cute. LM

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Dear Group Husband is away for three days so am lacking in support this evening.  Son is tired and bad tempered and anyway what 17 year old boy, as nice as he is, wants to listen to his mother ranting on. Went to the docs this morning to have my new tablets dose increased.  Asthma is diabolical at present.  Had previously been given relief spray containing adrenalin – wonderful it increased the panic attacks and therefore increased the asthma!!!!  Asked if I could try something else for relief to fill the time before my appointment at the Chest Hospital.  Doctor decided to have another listen to my lungs first and was horrified – full of horrid noises!! Result instant panic by me – must at least have chronic heart problems or a lung tumour!!!!  She said I am simply forgetting how to breath properly and must try to take deep breaths – impossible whilst suffering so badly from asthma.  Would like her to try (although I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.)  As soon as I try to take a deep breath I cant stop coughing and have an asthma attack.  Have now been put on five days worth of oral steroids.  Last time this happened I felt wonderful.  Think it might be worth gaining 15 stone and growing a beard and hairy chest just to feel well!!!  Seriously though,  apparently the oral steroids will sort out asthma but not panic attacks so will give her more idea of what relief spray to give me. Have to go back next week. Had a good afternoon with sympathetic friend, but she has gone home now.  I am typing her Uni MA dissertation and at least it gives my brain something else to think about. I am also fighting a legal case against my last employers who started all this horror up. Good news – Husband has a new and better paid job and we are not quite so destitute – although he will have to be away from home more.  He is probably secretly pleased to get away from his mad wife. Still, I still have my cats and dog to talk to and who love me through thick and thin and I still have the ability to be moved by the music of Radiohead, REM, and Sting at the ripe old age of 53 and have painted my toenails purple and made my hair stand up on end with gel – so there’s life in the old girl yet! Love to you all. Ann What a load of rambling!!! * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Hi Ann, ramble on all that you want.  This is about the only place where people understand your anxiety and how it antagonizes other conditions.  I’ve had to take steroids this year for my allergy, and I do understand what you mean about weight gain.  When all else fails, what can you do? Mel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Group Husband is away for three days so am lacking in support this evening.  Son is tired and bad tempered and anyway what 17 year old boy, as nice as he is, wants to listen to his mother ranting on. Went to the docs this morning to have my new tablets dose increased.  Asthma is diabolical at present.  Had previously been given relief spray containing adrenalin – wonderful it increased the panic attacks and therefore increased the asthma!!!!  Asked if I could try something else for relief to fill the time before my appointment at the Chest Hospital.  Doctor decided to have another listen to my lungs first and was horrified – full of horrid noises!! Result instant panic by me – must at least have chronic heart problems or a lung tumour!!!!  She said I am simply forgetting how to breath properly and must try to take deep breaths – impossible whilst suffering so badly from asthma.  Would like her to try (although I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.)  As soon as I try to take a deep breath I cant stop coughing and have an asthma attack.  Have now been put on five days worth of oral steroids.  Last time this happened I felt wonderful.  Think it might be worth gaining 15 stone and growing a beard and hairy chest just to feel well!!!  Seriously though,  apparently the oral steroids will sort out asthma but not panic attacks so will give her more idea of what relief spray to give me. Have to go back next week. Had a good afternoon with sympathetic friend, but she has gone home now.  I am typing her Uni MA dissertation and at least it gives my brain something else to think about. I am also fighting a legal case against my last employers who started all this horror up. Good news – Husband has a new and better paid job and we are not quite so destitute – although he will have to be away from home more.  He is probably secretly pleased to get away from his mad wife. Still, I still have my cats and dog to talk to and who love me through thick and thin and I still have the ability to be moved by the music of Radiohead, REM, and Sting at the ripe old age of 53 and have painted my toenails purple and made my hair stand up on end with gel – so there’s life in the old girl yet! Love to you all. Ann What a load of rambling!!!

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Question:

J Allergy Clin Immunol 1997 Dec;100(6 Pt 1):789-91 Use of herbal products, coffee or black tea, and over-the-counter medications as self-treatments among adults with asthma. Blanc PD, Kuschner WG, Katz PP, Smith S, Yelin EH These include the junk as well as the better herbal remedies, a lot of things bunched together, including a wide range of over-the-counter medications. The problem is that there are no herbal concoctions that can have the ’safe and effective’ label applied to them.  In fact (as you demonstrated by your lobelia post) many of the ‘facts’ known by the herbal enthusiasts are not just wrong – they are dangerously wrong. Pharmaceutical companies are not going to spend the money on all the testing needed to get the ’safe and effective’ label on an item they can’t patent.  They should find dandelion safe and effective for something, and all you have to do is dig dandelions from your lawn?  But neither Chinese ephedra nor lobelia is really dangerous in the hands of one with a little common sense.  Some people abuse Chinese ephedra as herbal Ecstasy to get high, clearly outside the bounds of sensible use.  I can’t see how lobelia would give one the feeling of breathing OK when they are on the verge of respiratory failure.  As pointed out in several messages on this newsgroup, some pharmaceuticals can be deadly danger to some people or can have lesser adverse effects. The difference is that pharmaceuticals are regulated and herbals are not.  Can you imagine a drug with the same properties as lobelia getting FDA approval as an asthma drug? Maybe, but it would be unlikely for one chemical compound to be an exact equivalent of a plant material. Please, only post herbal information if you are going to post the appropriate safety warnings also. Safety warnings yes, scare tactics no. No, the comparing homeopathy and allergy shots is an invalid comparison.  Allergy shots and vaccinations are not intended to produce symptoms similar to the disease.  A vaccination simply gives the body a sample of a disease causing organism so the body can prepare defenses (antibodies) in advance.  Allergy shots are designed to build up a tolerance to the substance in question.  The fact that (for safety reasons) the doses have to be vanishingly small in order to prevent against a life threatening reaction the slowly worked up to stronger doses is directly opposite homeopathic theory. You miss the point on homeopathy.  The idea is to give a tiny or infinitesimal dose of a substance that would, in larger amount, produce the same symptoms that the patient/client is suffering.  That way, a homeopathic remedy does not produce actual symptoms similar to the disease.  Question is whether such a tiny dose, sometimes containing zero molecules of the named substance, can have any effect. (Remove "nospam" from email address)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, are you aware of the fact that people who use alternative medicine to treat their asthma suffer life threatening asthma episodes at twice the rate as people who use actual medical treatments? Where do you get those statistics?  That would include people who try to treat asthma with anything that looks good in the health food store, or maybe with ozone generators, or people who were just dragging their feet about medical treatment.  People who were successful treating asthma with alternative medicine might not have been counted at all.  Then there are false positives and false negatives in asthma diagnosis, some doctors just call it pneumonia or something else. J Allergy Clin Immunol 1997 Dec;100(6 Pt 1):789-91 Use of herbal products, coffee or black tea, and over-the-counter medications as self-treatments among adults with asthma. Blanc PD, Kuschner WG, Katz PP, Smith S, Yelin EH

You have posted this before and the study has been posted here before showing that this study does not support your claims. Your speculation about ’successful’ asthmatics does not apply to this study.  You should be more careful in the future about speculating about the methodology of studies you have not reviewed.

You should be more careful about using studies which don’t support your claims. Patients treated by MDs who use herbal or other alternative medicine in addition to their conventional arsenal would come under the "actual medical treatments". Actually, the study relied on information provided by doctors. Basically regardless of disease severity, the use of ‘alternative’ medical techniques was associated with the increased risk.

Actually the study mentions tea, coffee, OTC meds and some unknown herbal products. These are not "alternative medical techniques". The only one that might fall into the *broad spectrum* of alternative medical techniques/medicine is the herbal formulas. Since the formulas were not specified, the information is of questionable use. As usual you have misrepresented the information and mislead the readers. One who treats asthma with herbal medicine has to know what they’re doing. Hit-or-miss is unlikely to succeed. The problem is that there are no herbal concoctions that can have the ’safe and effective’ label applied to them.  In fact (as you demonstrated by your lobelia post) many of the ‘facts’ known by the herbal enthusiasts are not just wrong – they are dangerously wrong.

Ah, yes, here we have the scare tactics again. And what ‘facts’ are wrong? Apparently studies need to be done in order to say something is ’safe and effective’. Research funding allocated to herbal research will produce studies. A study however has limited ability to determine safety and effectiveness, especially with regard to a particular individual. Most people seem to forget that the herbal products industry is intended to return a profit to the owners and investors.  Also consider that this industry is exempt from most of the consumer protection laws related to medical products. Pharmaceutical industry turns much bigger profits.  Hospital treatment is horrendously expensive.  Somebody has to be getting rich. The difference is that pharmaceuticals are regulated and herbals are not.

Because drugs are regulated and herbs are not drugs. Having a 17-yr monopoly on charging $10+ a pill adds up to big bucks. Can you imagine a drug with the same properties as lobelia getting FDA approval as an asthma drug?

How can a drug have the same properties as lobelia? Drugs are usually single ingredient, whereas herbs are plants with many chemical compounds. ..diane

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard about vitamin C helping for allergies, but no effect on me.  I have heard about grape seed extract, one asthma sufferer swore by it, but I never tried.  There is Pycnogenol (R) extract of French maritime pine, antioxidant, not asthma-specific.  With pine (Pinus strobus) and spruce (Picea excelsa) trees nearby, I tried a do-it-yourself version from the leading tips with needles, in a mixed herbal brew, found some benefit.  You can find some leads at Be real careful when using herbs.  Most of the people recommending various herbs do not know what they are talking about and you risk taking things that are dangerous for asthmatics (and nonasthmatics).

And your expertise in evaluating herbs as a treatment is what? In fact if you do a review of the actual scientific research you can find that most of the herbals recommended for asthma have been tested and found to be useless.

Let’s have a few citations. Most people seem to forget that the herbal products industry is intended to return a profit to the owners and investors.

And the drug companies are not?   Also consider that this industry is exempt from most of the consumer protection laws related to medical products.

Such as? Finally, remember that alternative medical treatments are not recommended for serious medical conditions.

How many drs are familiar enough with non-conventional treatments to recommend them?   The only indications for alternative treatments are minor and self limiting medical conditions.

The evidence to support this claim is what? Asthma is neither a minor medical condition nor is it self limiting. BTW, are you aware of the fact that people who use alternative medicine to treat their asthma suffer life threatening asthma episodes at twice the rate as people who use actual medical treatments?

The evidence to support this claim is what? I hope you are not using that study about folks using coffee and stuff for their asthma. If so, you are grossly misrepresenting it. I have posted this study in its entirety here so the readers could see how you misrepresented the information and how it did not support your claims. That post may still be in dejanews. ..diane

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I have heard about vitamin C helping for allergies, but no effect on me.  I have heard about grape seed extract, one asthma sufferer swore by it, but I never tried.  There is Pycnogenol (R) extract of French maritime pine, antioxidant, not asthma-specific.  With pine (Pinus strobus) and spruce (Picea excelsa) trees nearby, I tried a do-it-yourself version from the leading tips with needles, in a mixed herbal brew, found some benefit.  You can find some leads at

Be real careful when using herbs.  Most of the people recommending various herbs do not know what they are talking about and you risk taking things that are dangerous for asthmatics (and nonasthmatics). In fact if you do a review of the actual scientific research you can find that most of the herbals recommended for asthma have been tested and found to be useless. Most people seem to forget that the herbal products industry is intended to return a profit to the owners and investors.  Also consider that this industry is exempt from most of the consumer protection laws related to medical products. Finally, remember that alternative medical treatments are not recommended for serious medical conditions.  The only indications for alternative treatments are minor and self limiting medical conditions. Asthma is neither a minor medical condition nor is it self limiting. BTW, are you aware of the fact that people who use alternative medicine to treat their asthma suffer life threatening asthma episodes at twice the rate as people who use actual medical treatments? No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

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Try Lobelia a.k.a. "the asthma weed."  Also, are you taking a maintenance drug, such as Serevent, Flovent,  or Maxair?  You didn’t mention any. Warning! Not take this herb!  It does nothing for asthma and can cause you harm! This herb is particullarly dangerous because it contains a drug that can cause a false sense of well being and make you unable to properly evaluate your condition.  It Will Have No Effect On Your Asthma, Just On Your Ability To Tell How Severe Your Asthma IS.

What is the "drug" contained in the herb that gives a false sense of well being and makes one unable to properly evaluate one’s condition? ..diane

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I have had great success with a device that I found on the web at http://members.aol.com/elanramkll – worth looking into!

Another clown selling an ozone generator. BTW, you claim that your product treats asthma.  Please provide reliable scientific evidence or you site will be forwarded to the FTC because you are attempting to defraud by falsely (and illegally) claiming medical benefits for your product. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

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Singulair is not intended as a sole long term control medication for asthma it is intended to be used as an additive treatment to an inhaled corticosteroid.  Also, for about 1/3 of the people who try it – it does nothing. Is this true for all asthma, or only more severe asthma?  (I’m a mild to moderate asthmatic with singulair as my only medication, and it seems adequate–better than anything else I’ve used; while adding steroids to it doesn’t seem to have any added effect.)

Actually, it is on the pharmacists insert that comes with the product in the US. What you are doing is using it in an ‘off label’ application (one where ther is no proven benefit). No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

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I have heard about vitamin C helping for allergies, but no effect on me.  I have heard about grape seed extract, one asthma sufferer swore by it, but I never tried.  There is Pycnogenol (R) extract of French maritime pine, antioxidant, not asthma-specific.  With pine (Pinus strobus) and spruce (Picea excelsa) trees nearby, I tried a do-it-yourself version from the leading tips with needles, in a mixed herbal brew, found some benefit.  You can find some leads at http://metalab.unc.edu/herbmed There is newsgroup alt.folklore.herbs; I haven’t been to alt.med.allergy yet. I can’t say what will work for you, just present these leads so you can research and decide for yourself.  If you go the herbal route, you need to know what you’re doing, and be watchful for scams.  Public library may also help you get started, look in the 610s & 620s: health-related information from conventional and other points of view. (Remove "nospam" from my email address)

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Singulair is not intended as a sole long term control medication for asthma it is intended to be used as an additive treatment to an inhaled corticosteroid.  Also, for about 1/3 of the people who try it – it does nothing. Is this true for all asthma, or only more severe asthma?  (I’m a mild to moderate asthmatic with singulair as my only medication, and it seems adequate–better than anything else I’ve used; while adding steroids to it doesn’t seem to have any added effect.)

Just my $0.02.  My allergist told me that Singulair was fine for long term and there are few to no side effects, no tolerance buildup, no long-term effects.  If it works, use it.  So far I rarely need anything else beside my singulair dose each day. Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, D.C. 20375-5000, U.S.A.  == My comments are my own and do not reflect the views of the U.S. Navy. ==  == No Spamming or solicitations — both are illegal at this site == Check out our Nonlinear Dynamics Web site: http://chaos-mac.nrl.navy.mil/   * The 5th Experimental Chaos Conference Orlando FL June 1999. Check it out at  http://www.physics.gatech.edu/ecc5/   * The 4th Experimental Chaos Conference Sessions & Abstracts Online: http://natasha.umsl.edu/Exp_Chaos4, proceedings available.

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I have had great success with a device that I found on the web at http://members.aol.com/elanramkll – worth looking into!

Response:

First and foremost, you should see a doctor reguarding the Asthma Symptoms getting worse on you. The Weight gain may only be part of the problem. Seeing you are presently out of work without Insurance, Seriously consider checking your area hospitals and see If they have a clinic where either you pay a sliding scale fee for services or, if you income levels are at a certain level, you may qualify for charity care (especially if you have been out of work for a fairly extended period of time), Also contact local orginizations or Social Services thah handle these type of cases and situations. Secondly, even if your health is fine, I would’nt start an Exercise Program and/or a Diet without first consulting an MD. Also, if you’ve been out of a steady routine for over a year, you should first start by walking for at least a few weeks before you start working out seriously. Always do warmups/cooldowns and stretches both before and after your training routine. As far as Alternate Homeopathic remedies go, Don’t try them- you could make yourself worse instead of better. Also could be just as expensive as regular Prescription and/or OTC treatments and Medications. I hope this will help you. If you have any further questions or variables to the situation that you feel uncomfortable to discus just attach a copy of this posting or make reference to this posting in the RE: portion of yor Email Clients’nwe message application…… * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Singulair is not intended as a sole long term control medication for asthma it is intended to be used as an additive treatment to an inhaled corticosteroid.  Also, for about 1/3 of the people who try it – it does nothing.

Is this true for all asthma, or only more severe asthma?  (I’m a mild to moderate asthmatic with singulair as my only medication, and it seems adequate–better than anything else I’ve used; while adding steroids to it doesn’t seem to have any added effect.) Any information online about this anyone can point me to? Thanks–just trying, as always, to keep educating myself!

Response:

Try Lobelia a.k.a. "the asthma weed."  Also, are you taking a maintenance drug, such as Serevent, Flovent,  or Maxair?  You didn’t mention any.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma…. I just got laid off, so I don’t have health insurance anymore.. Are there any vitamins or herbs that are SUPPOSE to help/surpress asthma???? I can’t seem to find any… Thanks, Steve

Response:

I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions???

If you need more than one puff of albuterol per day it indicates the need to add preventor drugs; typically inhaled steroids like Pulmicort or Flovent. Your nocturnal symptoms are another indication you need this. Also your exercise induced asthma indicates the same thing, ie undertreated asthma. Note that Singulair only helps about 2/3 who try it; if it doesn’t help don’t take it.  It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma…. I just got laid off, so I don’t have health insurance anymore..

Didn’t you sign up for COBRA when you were laid off? COBRA enables medical coverage for up to 18 months, as long as you pay the premiums previously paid by your company.  Are there any vitamins or herbs that are SUPPOSE to help/surpress asthma???? I can’t seem to find any…Thanks, Steve

Vitamins would be of little help for your asthma symptoms. You need a steroid inhaler. For exercise starters, try walking and gradually increasing the distance, using a good pair of athletic shoes; pretreat as necessary with albuterol and carry your inhaler. Ellis, not a doctor — Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums Talkway – http://www.talkway.com – Talk more ways (sm)

Response:

I too am about 50 pounds overweight and until I recently retired from my job, I led a very sedentary life. When I started exercising on a treadmill and stationary bike, I could barely do 5 minutes. I kept at it and by increasing the time just slightly each day, I can now do 20 minutes with no problem. I don’t even need to use my inhaler before I start.  I would advise seeing a doctor before starting any exercise program though. Just don’t be discouraged if you need to start out very slowly. If a couch potato like me can do it, I am sure you can too! Good luck.

In addition to seeing a doctor, here is a good reference on weight control and physical fitness.  (Note, this is how the US Army does it – not all of the specific details may apply to you): http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/21-20/toc.htm No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

Try Lobelia a.k.a. "the asthma weed."  Also, are you taking a maintenance drug, such as Serevent, Flovent,  or Maxair?  You didn’t mention any.

Warning! Not take this herb!  It does nothing for asthma and can cause you harm! This herb is particullarly dangerous because it contains a drug that can cause a false sense of well being and make you unable to properly evaluate your condition.  It Will Have No Effect On Your Asthma, Just On Your Ability To Tell How Severe Your Asthma IS. David:  Please Do Not recommend herbal remedies unless you have reviewed the actual scientific research instead of the claims made by the people selling the stuff.  Without proper treatment asthma can (and does) kill.  Lets make sure that people get proper treatment. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

Barrry here of http://www.aircleaners.com   Before you start any workout program or diet, Go to a GOOD pulmonary doctor and get a full check up and make sure that he really checks out your heart and lungs. Dont take chances with your health.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma…. Hi Steve According to Professor Buteyko’s theory, which is not recognized by the medical world,  asthma is one of a very large number of disorders caused by chornic hyperventilation (CHV).  Basically what it says is that the body’s biochemical processes are disrupted by a shortage of Carbon Dioxide caused by breathing too much.  One of the symptoms is a feeling of breathlesseness. While all the symptoms I have listed on this n.g. which are caused by CHV can be found in contemporary medical literature,  the following is not.  That means I have no medical evidence that this is the case. But what Professor Buteyko tells us is that the biochemical disruption caused by low CO2 also impedes the processing of sugars and  fats by the body.  This is what gives people a craving for "sweets" and makes them put on weight.  That’s why dieting alone rarely works.    What would support this theory is that people on Buteyko therapy actually report a  loss in weight.  Part of the therapy requires that you only eat when you’re hungry and only as much as you need to be satisfied. People on the therapy tend to lose  their appetite, at least until they are down to a healthy weight. Buteyko therapy is a logical approach to reversing chronic hyperventilation.  You can pick up the process for free on our web site.  By the way, please be sure to read the important notice below. Peter Kolb BSc(Eng), MSc(Med), CPEng(Biomed) Biomedical Engineer IMPORTANT:  The views expressed in this message are based on the chronic hyperventilation theory of asthma, a theory which is not recognized by most of contemporary medicine.  You are advised not to act on this information without the express approval of your doctor. Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics     http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma….

Partly it sounds like your asthma is not in control if you are waking up so often each night and using your inhaler,  Maybe it is time to pay the doctor a visit and get on a new med treatment plan but do see a doctor. Sounds like we are in about the same boat.  How come asthma doesn’t stop us from eatting!? I am looking around at ideas.  I thought of purchasing a treadmill and taking it easy indoors where the air is good and seeing if that might help.  Am too big for a hamster wheel.   I will look around for some other alternatives.  I need to lose this weight soon as it does not get any easier with the hot florida weather just around the corner. Before you start any diet though, should see your doctor and have him give you a check up and tell him or her what is happening during the nights with waking up and all.  Lemme know hey!?  Now a word or two (maybe three or more) below about Mr. Kolb… Hi Steve

See Mr. Kolb… right here!  It is right here your relentless pursuit of the Buteyko Asthmatic Utopia!   Ya see, I can identify with Steve as I am also in a similar circumstance.  Being overwight with all those added pounds does not make chronic hyperventilation out of being just too dang fat to get about with ease! Not to mention having to fight off the environmental factors outside and trying to walk and suck in all the exhaust and have all that extra weight in tow!  What the heck does any of that have to do with CHV? GEEZ Mr Kolb… please getta life! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -According to Professor Buteyko’s theory, which is not recognized by the medical world,  asthma is one of a very large number of disorders caused by chornic hyperventilation (CHV).  Basically what it says is that the body’s biochemical processes are disrupted by a shortage of Carbon Dioxide caused by breathing too much.  One of the symptoms is a feeling of breathlesseness. While all the symptoms I have listed on this n.g. which are caused by CHV can be found in contemporary medical literature,  the following is not.  That means I have no medical evidence that this is the case. But what Professor Buteyko tells us is that the biochemical disruption caused by low CO2 also impedes the processing of sugars and  fats by the body.  This is what gives people a craving for "sweets" and makes them put on weight.  That’s why dieting alone rarely works.    What would support this theory is that people on Buteyko therapy actually report a  loss in weight.  Part of the therapy requires that you only eat when you’re hungry and only as much as you need to be satisfied. People on the therapy tend to lose  their appetite, at least until they are down to a healthy weight.

I eat because I am not getting enough exercise thereby overeatting and this has nothing to do with sugar cravings.  It has to do with the fact that eatting is about the only thing i can pursue with vigor and do well.  So are you telling me that all Buteyko practitioners maintain proper weight?  Why not go to the Overeatters Anonymous page and boast Buteyko therapy there then?! Buteyko therapy is a logical approach to reversing chronic hyperventilation.  You can pick up the process for free on our web site.  By the way, please be sure to read the important notice below.

Mr. Kolb, don’t you think it might be a better idea for Steve to see his doctor FIRST! Peter Kolb BSc(Eng), MSc(Med), CPEng(Biomed) Biomedical Engineer IMPORTANT:  The views expressed in this message are based on the chronic hyperventilation theory of asthma, a theory which is not recognized by most of contemporary medicine.  You are advised not to act on this information without the express approval of your doctor.

sure is a cute little disclaimer above. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics    http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma….

Go to a doctor.  You need to be on medications that control the asthma rather than stuff that just suppresses the symptoms. Singulair is not intended as a sole long term control medication for asthma it is intended to be used as an additive treatment to an inhaled corticosteroid.  Also, for about 1/3 of the people who try it – it does nothing. I just got laid off, so I don’t have health insurance anymore.. Are there any vitamins or herbs that are SUPPOSE to help/surpress asthma???? I can’t seem to find any…

This is because there are not any that are both 1) safe and 2) effective. All the stuff about vitamins and herbs helping asthma is designed to separate you from your money – and nothing else. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

According to Professor Buteyko’s theory, which is not recognized by the medical world,

Nor is it supported by scientific research.  Nor is it supported by reliable evidence.  Nor is it supported by people who are going to give you an honest appraisal of its risks. IMPORTANT:  The views expressed in this message are based on the chronic hyperventilation theory of asthma, a theory which is not recognized by most of contemporary medicine.  You are advised not to act on this information without the express approval of your doctor.

Actually, better advice would be not to act on this information unless your doctor specifically recommends it. In fact you should specifically ask your doctor if it may be some sort of scam.   No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

I too am about 50 pounds overweight and until I recently retired from my job, I led a very sedentary life. When I started exercising on a treadmill and stationary bike, I could barely do 5 minutes. I kept at it and by increasing the time just slightly each day, I can now do 20 minutes with no problem. I don’t even need to use my inhaler before I start.  I would advise seeing a doctor before starting any exercise program though. Just don’t be discouraged if you need to start out very slowly. If a couch potato like me can do it, I am sure you can too! Good luck. Joan R.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma…. I just got laid off, so I don’t have health insurance anymore.. Are there any vitamins or herbs that are SUPPOSE to help/surpress asthma???? I can’t seem to find any… Thanks, Steve

Response:

Sadly you need to see a doctor and get your treatment reviewed, which as you live in the US & don’t have insurance may be problematic. You don’t mention using a steroid inhaler.  If you do try doubling the dose and see how it goes. But really you need to see the doctor and since I live in the UK (free visits to doctor, prescriptions at $10 a go) I can’t advise you – except maybe to find a valid reason to more to the UK or other country with a civilised health system! I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma…. I just got laid off, so I don’t have health insurance anymore.. Are there any vitamins or herbs that are SUPPOSE to help/surpress asthma???? I can’t seem to find any… Thanks, Steve

– Surfer!

Response:

I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma….

Hi Steve According to Professor Buteyko’s theory, which is not recognized by the medical world,  asthma is one of a very large number of disorders caused by chornic hyperventilation (CHV).  Basically what it says is that the body’s biochemical processes are disrupted by a shortage of Carbon Dioxide caused by breathing too much.  One of the symptoms is a feeling of breathlesseness. While all the symptoms I have listed on this n.g. which are caused by CHV can be found in contemporary medical literature,  the following is not.  That means I have no medical evidence that this is the case. But what Professor Buteyko tells us is that the biochemical disruption caused by low CO2 also impedes the processing of sugars and  fats by the body.  This is what gives people a craving for "sweets" and makes them put on weight.  That’s why dieting alone rarely works.    What would support this theory is that people on Buteyko therapy actually report a  loss in weight.  Part of the therapy requires that you only eat when you’re hungry and only as much as you need to be satisfied. People on the therapy tend to lose  their appetite, at least until they are down to a healthy weight. Buteyko therapy is a logical approach to reversing chronic hyperventilation.  You can pick up the process for free on our web site.  By the way, please be sure to read the important notice below. Peter Kolb BSc(Eng), MSc(Med), CPEng(Biomed) Biomedical Engineer IMPORTANT:  The views expressed in this message are based on the chronic hyperventilation theory of asthma, a theory which is not recognized by most of contemporary medicine.  You are advised not to act on this information without the express approval of your doctor. Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics     http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma….

It is a myth that you can’t take weight off without exercise. In 1979, I lost about 40 pounds, and kept it off ever since, through reducing my food intake (since I have exercised-induced asthma). I went to Weight Watchers and followed their program. My allergist at the time was delighted with the results and told me to stick with it. Herbs can be bad for asthma, especially if you have food allergies. Vitamins don’t help much (I take megadoses of vitamin C, but there’s only a slight benefit). Have you ever tried Pulmicort or Flovent? Those might work better for you than Singulair (which doesn’t work for everyone), and can be even better than Intal or Tilade. If you don’t have health insurance, try to find a "free" clinic, or call whoever gave you the prescription for Albuterol, explain your sitaution, and ask if he or she will write another prescription for you or maybe work out a payment plan for an office visit. Joan

Response:

I have always had a little asthma, but nothing to stop me from anything… Well, about a year, I gained 50 pounds, and every since, I have pretty bad asthma.  I want to exercise, but I can’t because my asthma is so bad… It is possible to with my Albuterol inhaler, but I feel like I am living on the damn thing…  I wake up 3-4 times a night wheezing, when I am just laying there!! I take Sinulair but it does nothing for me.  Any suggestions??? It seems like this asthma stems from my weight gain, but I can’t the weight off now due to the asthma…. I just got laid off, so I don’t have health insurance anymore.. Are there any vitamins or herbs that are SUPPOSE to help/surpress asthma???? I can’t seem to find any… Thanks, Steve

Response:

Question:

Responding to the question of "exercise-induced asthma" in this thread: Exercise is a clear provoker of asthma in susceptible people. Exericse-induced and cold-induced asthma run togethor, and for the same reason. What happens is one of two things: One: when you exercise strenuously, you greatly increase the amount of air you breathe (technically, the minute ventilation). This is normal and good, because you need more oxygen and need to blow off the carbon dioxide generated by exercise. However, the air you breathe in is 1) colder and 2) drier than normal. This is because you generally mouth-breathe with exercise, and so the nose and nasopharynx can’t do their normal job of warming and humidifying the air you take in. The colder, drier air can trigger certain sensory nerves in your airways (breathing tubes) in the lung, causing them to release certain chemicals (technically, tachykinins) that cause bronchospasm and inflammation. Thus, an asthma attack. Two: some asthmatic people manage the period of exercise fine. But in the cool-down period immediately after exercise, the ABRUPT re-warming of the air can trigger certain reflexes which then stimulate these same sensory nerves. Thus, an asthma attack. A shorter, more rapid cool-down period worsens this as the re-warming is more abrupt. So how do you get around this problem? Some strategies (and talk with your doctor FIRST) — 1) exercise indoors or in a warmer, more humid environment. Swimming is great for this. 2) if you normally use albuterol or another short-acting beta-agonist in "rescue" situations, you can pre-treat yourself right before commencing exercise, and/or right before the cool-down period starts. 3) extend the cool-down period after exercise, and make it more gradual. Again, talk to your doctor FIRST. Hope this helps, Steve White, M.D. Disclaimer: I can’t practice medicine on the internet, so I won’t. "from" line above changed to defeat e-mail spammers.

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Until I took up running, my asthma was never really a problem. I’ve always had it but only got attacks when exposed to wool or exerted myself too suddenly (swimming excepted). Since I took up running about a year ago, my asthma got worse. Now I’ve packed up running but, alas, the asthma is full time. It may be a coincidence, I don’t know.

I developed asthma during high school; it started off as attacks while running cross country, and progressed into clearly allergen-induced attacks. I continued to run cross country throughout high school <yes, putting up with attacks while doing it.  On days when the pollen or mold counts were particularly high, or when there was a lot of pollution in the air [i.e. the summer], I would be much worse in ANY activity I did [including just simply *EXISTING*, let alone running!! Since high school, I have run some, and found that running outdoors tended to cause significant asthma problems, whereas running indoors in a room with acceptably clean air was fine...   Running outdoors means you will be exposed to impurities in the air, such as pollution, fumes, allergens, etc..  If any of these trigger attacks in you, then chances are good they will with running, too.  Further, when people run they tend to breathe through their mouth, which will reduce the bodies ability to filter incoming air.  Add to that that you tend to breathe more rapidly, and you will find yourself exchanging more "contaminated" air than you are used to... That can lead to an asthma attack.  Another compounding problem is the drying and cooling of your airways, one or both of which is thought to be the cause of exercise-induced asthma [scientists are arguing about which is the actual cause; but when running, especially outdoors, both often happen at the same time anyways...], which is made worse by breathing through an open mouth. If it is too cold out or too dry out or too humid out, you may also have problems. Running indoors can solve some of those problems, as can doing things like wearing a filter mask while running outside…  I can run 5 miles continuously indoors witout ANY asthma problems; the same outside tends to result in difficulty, which I attribute to allergens that I am being exposed to outside but not inside… Pre-medication works for some people, too. I had to stop running because my shins didn’t agree with it, so I now walk [often race-walking, but my shins don't seem to mind it ], which rarely causes me asthma problems,a nd when it does i can pinpoint another actual source [e.g. finding out that evening that the pollen count hit a new record high that day...]. If you are overdoing it, you can also cause problems.  Starting off an exercise program at a level above what your body can handle can lead to shortness of breath, etc..  It may be confused with asthma, or, combined with other factors may even trigger asthma…  There are some good sites on the WWW, including one in Oregon [Team Oregon?] that have some excellent running programs laid out on them, including ones that will take a person from being a non-runner to being able to run a marathon in under 2 years…  Using their beginner program and adapting it for your own use can prove beneficial.  They also, perhaps more importantly, have some really good guidelines for running programs [I adpated their running programme to a walking one for me, since I had to stop running], and they point out some often-ignored things like:  if you are in pain after running you’ve overdone it and possibly injured yourself, that you should be able to carry on a conversation with a running partner while running [if your breathing is such that you can't talk, you are overdoing it], and a bunch of other things…. Of course, some people simply can’t run with asthma no matter what they try. For some of those people, walking is fine [and better for your joints anyways!], for others, they need to do something like swimming or other activities.  Keep in mind that what works for one person may or may not work for another, and each of us has to find out what our bodies can reasonably tolerate [i.e. can tolerate when we are doing it PROPERLY, not overdoing it!!]. Good Luck. SW. THE ABOVE IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE.  IF YOU THINK IT IS, YOU HAVE BEEN SPENDING TOO MUCH TIME ONLINE!!!

Response:

Until I took up running, my asthma was never really a problem. I’ve always had it but only got attacks when exposed to wool or exerted myself too suddenly (swimming excepted). Since I took up running about a year ago, my asthma got worse. Now I’ve packed up running but, alas, the asthma is full time. It may be a coincidence, I don’t know. Jeff

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I have found that daily walking at a steady pace has improved my overall physical condition and therefore the asthma attacks have been reduced greatly.  Once I am in good condition with walking, I am able to undertake more strenuous activities such as bicycling and short runs without asthma attacks.  I would think that swimming would to be great for building up lung capacity and maybe you should concentrate on that or walking before undertaking a running regimen.  I don’t think that you should have to give up running totally..maybe just ease into it. Carolyn — "What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, man would die from a great loneliness of the spirit."               Chief Seattle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Until I took up running, my asthma was never really a problem. I’ve always had it but only got attacks when exposed to wool or exerted myself too suddenly (swimming excepted). Since I took up running about a year ago, my asthma got worse. Now I’ve packed up running but, alas, the asthma is full time. It may be a coincidence, I don’t know. Jeff

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I use 2 puffs of Proventil approx. 20 minutes before playing singles tennis and have no problem.  I do not, however, play in the evening in the winter.  The cold triggers asthma.  Also, I recommend trying to only breath through the nose – not the mouth.  This helps warm the air before it hits the lungs.

Response:

I have been running for over 20 years, and had asthma for over 25 years. I have found that being too warm (as in overdressed) causes me to breathe much harder, and then I will definitely start wheezing. For me, being almost too cold is just about right. I had a miserable summer–the worst ever. I went to a really good respiratory doctor, who put me on a 16-day decreasing prednisone regimen in Sept and, since then, I take MaxAir (3 puffs) 4-5 times per day, and AeroBid (4 puffs)twice a day, shortly after one of the MaxAir inhalations. I have been able to sleep through without wheezing since I started this dosage back in Sept. I time it so that I inhale just before I set out to run. Unless I’m too warm, then I don’t wheeze. I ALWAYS carry an inhaler with me, however, and will take a few puffs if I start wheezing. Then, I take off whatever I can to cool off before starting up again. The same thing, of course, happens when I’m bike riding. I enjoy riding in the cold (down to 25 deg F) weather; the only limiting factor is that my feet get numb if it’s too cold. I’ve been able to bring the time envelope out to 90+ minutes with a combination of neoprene booties and wool/polypropylene sox before my toes freeze and feel like they’re ready to snap off. –Lloyd

Response:

Hello.  You need to find the right combination of asthma meds that let you  live the kind of life you want to live.  Unfortunately, doctors don’t always give you all the answers to do that.  You have to educate yourself to help yourself.  If you have asthma, you are the one responsible to seek the right treatment–and to actually follow through with the treatment. Asthma should not turn you into a couch potato, but the advice the doctor gave you–"not to run if you can’t breathe "  is right.  Learn about asthma and the medications, find the ones that work for you, stay on that course of treatment, and you  should be able to do whatever you want. It’s not easy and it takes time, but you are living the alternative right now.  Jim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in any insight you may have on the effects of running on your astma-either short distance or LDR.  I seem to be trapped in a cycle of 3months of running then bronchitis atttack-antibiotics for cure period and then back to running and so on…any suggestions to break or understand the cycle? ok, i’m going to wave my hands a bit here, but my sister (a respiratory therapist with asthma) mentioned something she read.  paraphrased and badly-remembered (by me), i think she said that when asthmatics start working-out, initially there is a period where their asthma gets better as they get in shape, then there is a period where they are actually more prone to catching illnesses, b/c their immune system gets slightly depressed. the depression of the immune system is temporary, and if the asthmatic athlete can get through this period without getting severely ill, they’ll be fine. by the way, i have the same problem with running, but i can only run for 1 to 2 months before i get the terrible asthma attack. if you’d like, i can see if my sister can find the article and see if there are any solid recommendations.

Mary, that sounds really interesting.  If you can get the article details, would you mind emailing me with them? Thanks, Lesley

Response:

: I am interested in any insight you may have on the effects of running on : your astma-either short distance or LDR.  I seem to be trapped in a cycle : of 3months of running then bronchitis atttack-antibiotics for cure period : and then back to running and so on…any suggestions to break or : understand the cycle? : — Gene, I have exercise-induced asthma, which is aggravated by running (short term) but which is improved by running over the long term.  It helps me to start my runs with alternation between running and walking until I warm up. As to the infections.  My doctor put me on antihistamines several months ago, because I had a history of frequent infections (primarily in the fall and winter).  Apparently having an allergic reaction lowers the immune system and also having a lot of mucus in the respiratory system provides a place where infections can easily take hold.  Since I’ve been on the antihistamines, I’ve had one cold, and it went away in a week: for me, this was remarkable, as my colds usually turn into bronchitis and/or sinusitis. Another possibility: overexercise.  Do you get to the point after three months where you feel very strong and push yourself too hard?  This, too, can lower your immune system and make you susceptible to illness. Good luck figuring out the source of your problem. Heide Estes New York University

Response:

I haven’t officially been diagnosed with EIA yet, but I am a long distance runner/triathlete turned short distance runner/swimmer turned couch potato because of three recent bouts of bronchitis!  Are you at all depressed/discouraged?  I was never good, but sitting on the couch eating all night after work is not the real me!  I am going to a pulmonary specialist tomorrow, in the hope that he can give an intelligent answer to my problem.  My last doctor told me not to run if I thought that it made me sick!   Anyway, based on the research I’ve been doing, it sounds like we both have EIA and we will have to play around with an inhaler to get back to steady running. Any other thoughts or comments, write back!  Good luckl

Response:

I am interested in any insight you may have on the effects of running on your astma-either short distance or LDR.  I seem to be trapped in a cycle of 3months of running then bronchitis atttack-antibiotics for cure period and then back to running and so on…any suggestions to break or understand the cycle?

Try monitoring your lung capacity with a peak flow meter. A reduction in the readings could be a sign you need to increase your asthma medications and temporarily reduce your exercise. See http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/APF_MF.html ‘Adult Peak Flow Monitoring’ You want the readings to be in the green area, 80% or higher of peak.

Response:

I am interested in any insight you may have on the effects of running on your astma-either short distance or LDR.  I seem to be trapped in a cycle of 3months of running then bronchitis atttack-antibiotics for cure period and then back to running and so on…any suggestions to break or understand the cycle?

ok, i’m going to wave my hands a bit here, but my sister (a respiratory therapist with asthma) mentioned something she read.  paraphrased and badly-remembered (by me), i think she said that when asthmatics start working-out, initially there is a period where their asthma gets better as they get in shape, then there is a period where they are actually more prone to catching illnesses, b/c their immune system gets slightly depressed. the depression of the immune system is temporary, and if the asthmatic athlete can get through this period without getting severely ill, they’ll be fine. by the way, i have the same problem with running, but i can only run for 1 to 2 months before i get the terrible asthma attack. if you’d like, i can see if my sister can find the article and see if there are any solid recommendations.

Response:

I am interested in any insight you may have on the effects of running on your astma-either short distance or LDR.  I seem to be trapped in a cycle of 3months of running then bronchitis atttack-antibiotics for cure period and then back to running and so on…any suggestions to break or understand the cycle?

A couple of thoughts: First, ask your Dr. about exercise-induced asthma.  This could be part of your problem. Second, are you running indoors or outdoors?  It might be something in the air that you’re allergic to, and breathing more while you run might make it worse.  I don’t run, but my asthma always got worse during severe weather changes (and the "three-month cycle" was kind of a tip-off there.)  If it is cold-stress or heat-stress, your Dr. might have some suggestions…although (pardon the pun) your milage may vary.   Good luck. Scott T.

Response:

I am interested in any insight you may have on the effects of running on your astma-either short distance or LDR.  I seem to be trapped in a cycle of 3months of running then bronchitis atttack-antibiotics for cure period and then back to running and so on…any suggestions to break or understand the cycle?

Response:

I am interested in any insight you may have on the effects of running on your astma-either short distance or LDR.  I seem to be trapped in a cycle of 3months of running then bronchitis atttack-antibiotics for cure period and then back to running and so on…any suggestions to break or understand the cycle?

I’ve had asthma for 8 years. I’ve been running for 27 years. Asthma has an effect on running. Running has an effect on asthma. It started with audible wheezing just for the first mile and then cleared up after that. It progressed to needing Intal (and Atrovent on cold days) in addition to Ventolin before the run and usually Ventolin during the run–sometimes LOTs of Ventolin. Now, due to regular use of Serevent and Flovent I find I need very little to NO asthma drugs before during and after running. That, to me, is amazing! However, I never got into a cycle of bronchitis attacks and cannot speak to what is causing that. You might look into Serevent/Flovent for general asthma control if you haven’t already–my doctor recommended this to me after I asked her what was new on the asthma scene–she had several patients ask her this after reading an article about how much better the Olympic Athletes at the Olympic Training Center were doing with their asthma (I live close to Colorado Springs.) I know 2 things about asthma and running: 1) Running can trigger asthma (exercise-induced) 2) Running can strengthen your lungs and heart to better withstand asthma attacks. I am not running as much as in the past but 3 of the last 4 years I’ve run Pikes Peak Marathon and a few years back I ran a 50 mile race with asthma. So its quite possible to do it. Take better care of your asthma in general and you probably will have better luck with it and running. I’m now taking, besides, these medicines, a multi-vitamin and trying to eat better to maintain better health. that can’t hurt. Good luck. Jackie

Response:

Question:

Why do they spasm? Because they are irriated.  If you’ve ever had a skin test for allergies,

But why do they always irritate asthmatics? Are you telling me that when you are asthmatic things irritate you which may never irritate non-asthmatics;-) |-| /- |-< |-< |||

Response:

Why do they spasm? Because they are irriated.  If you’ve ever had a skin test for allergies, But why do they always irritate asthmatics? Are you telling me that when you are asthmatic things irritate you which may never irritate non-asthmatics;-) |-| /- |-< |-< |||

Yes!! I love scented candles, but if my husband smells one he has an asthma attack. I can pet cats and cuddle them for hours, but if my husband or my son is in the room with one for even 10 minutes they both have life-threatening asthma attacks (they don’t even have to know there is a cat in the room). Allergies can trigger attacks in asthmatics. But just because you are allergic to a substance doesn’t mean you will have asthma. I have another son who has many, many allergies that trigger eczema, hives, and sinus congestion. But he is NOT asthmatic, and has never had an asthma attack. Based on your previous messages, you will ask, "Why?"  No one’s figured that out yet. Mary

Response:

Why do they spasm? Because they are irriated.  If you’ve ever had a skin test for allergies, But why do they always irritate asthmatics? Are you telling me that when you are asthmatic things irritate you which may never irritate non-asthmatics;-)

Yes!  YES!  YOU FINALLY HAVE IT!  You’ve finally accepted decades of nearly-self-evident-but-they-published-it-anyway-for-the-terminally-awarene ss -impaired-anyway research.  Thank goodness. Scott T.

Response:

Why do they spasm? Because they are irriated.  If you’ve ever had a skin test for allergies, But why do they always irritate asthmatics? Are you telling me that when you are asthmatic things irritate you which may never irritate non-asthmatics;-) Yes!  YES!  YOU FINALLY HAVE IT!  You’ve finally accepted decades of nearly-self-evident-but-they-published-it-anyway-for-the-terminally-awarene ss -impaired-anyway research.  Thank goodness.

Hey, don’t get mad… if they do, they didn’t sell it as cause of asthma, they sell it as "trigger"…you read that documentations carefully. Now, I am going to add your list of insults another word:- "terminally-awareness-impaired"….+ "pea brained" + "quack" + "no duck" + "growing a third leg in between" ) If I had identified you as xxx-impaired I could only show some sympaty to you, rather than getting irritated with your postings….can you read the difference??! |-| /- |-< |-< ||| – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott T.

Response:

   The following is from the Merck Manual – one of the most widley used    doctors references – please investigate their  website:        http://www.merck.com/!!sEao50YhSsEapf12bU/pubs/mmanual/html        The airways obstruction in asthma is due to a combination of factors    that include (1) spasm of airways smooth muscle; (2) edema of airways    Why do they spasm?  Because your brain sends them a message to spasm to keep the CO2  level in your blood..  "spasm of your airways smooth muscles" is _not_ an explanation.. Broncospasm is caused by release of leukotrienes and other immune signalling molecules released as a result of an allergic or inflammatory reaction. It’s like hay fever or a cold in your lungs. Cigarette smoke is *loaded* with CO2 (and a whole bunch of other stuff). If your CO2 myth were correct, then second-hand (and direct) smoke would decrease asthma – BUT smoke is one of the most potent asthma triggers.  mucosa; (3) increased mucus secretion; (4) cellular,especially Why?

For the same reason your nose runs when you have a cold or hay fever. You’re not trying to tell us that a cold is caused by lack of carbon dioxide, are you?  eosinophilic, infiltration of the airways walls; and (5) injury and Why?

Those cells mistake harmless stuff like animal dander, roach droppings, and dust mite droppings for dangerous parasites and try to kill them. It’s like a person thinking his house is being broken into when he’s just seeing indistinct shapes in the dark, and taking out his pistol – and then ending up trashing his house defending himself against a mouse.  desquamation of the airways epithelium.  Formerly, attention was focused on bronchospasm due to smooth muscle contraction as the major contributor to the airways obstruction. More recently, it is appreciated that asthma, particularly in its chronic form, is truly an inflammatory disease of the airways. Bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL) and What causes these inflamations other than gas exchange in your lungs? Dust mites;-RO(T/F)L

Anything you are allergic to will set you off. Note – I work with cell cultures which are grown in 5% or 10% CO2 incubators. If I get a whiff of high-CO2 air when I open the incubator door, i get an asthma attack. So much for your theory that *low* CO2 is the main trigger, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Typically, all asthmatics with active disease have hyperresponsive or hyperreactive airways, manifest as exaggerated bronchoconstrictor response to many different stimuli. The degree of hyperresponsiveness is closely linked to the extent of inflammation.  Both are highly correlated with the severity of the disease and the need for drugs. Research on the pathophysiology of asthma over the past decade has focused on the inflammatory cells and their mediators, neurogenic mechanisms, and vascular abnormalities involved. Nobody may even think that this inflamation might be caused by over ventilation of your lungs in the long run and over exposure to oxygen and carbon dioxide imbalance in favour of oxygen..because it is cheap, it will bring a cheap solution to the age old expensive problem;-<

If I do not hold my breath when I open an incubator containing high levels of carbon dioxide, I will get an asthma attack. When i get a severe asthma attack, increased oxygen actually helps. Your theory is bunk. BTW – there is a way to solve many asthma problems very cheaply : Go clean your room/house/apartment – and keep it clean. You’ll be amazed at the difference. Annette.

Response:

(A lot of ‘why’ type stuff snipped.  I am not a biochemist, if you want those answers I suggest that you do some studying).  desquamation of the airways epithelium.  Formerly, attention was focused on bronchospasm due to smooth muscle contraction as the major contributor to the airways obstruction. More recently, it is appreciated that asthma, particularly in its chronic form, is truly an inflammatory disease of the airways. Bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL) and What causes these inflamations other than gas exchange in your lungs? Dust mites;-RO(T/F)L

According to an article in the 3 Jan 97 issue of ‘Science’ magazine, page 41: "Asthmatic airway inflamation in initiated by immunoglobulin E (IgE)-mediated allegy ("atopy") to airborne allergens ("allergens"). For asthmatics, the most important source of allergens is the house dust mite." William O. C. M Cookson and Miriam F. Moffatt "Asthma: An Epidemic in the Absence of Infection?" Nobody may even think that this inflamation might be caused by over ventilation of your lungs in the long run and over exposure to oxygen and carbon dioxide imbalance in favour of oxygen..because it is cheap, it will bring a cheap solution to the age old expensive problem;-<

Can you cite _any_ real science supporting your claim?  Do you enen know the difference between ‘apnea’ and ‘asthma’? I notice tha I am providing sources for all my material, what are the sources for your ideas?  What actual science can you use to support your claims? ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.

Response:

Forgive me for answering this, folks, but

[Colin Campbell had written, and quoted the Merck Manual] It is obvious you didn’t read my previous post as the post did not discuss symptoms at all.  I am posting it again.  Please note the description of _What Casues An Asthma Attack_ and exactly what the disease mechanism is.  The airways obstruction in asthma is due to a combination of factors  that include (1) spasm of airways smooth muscle; (2) edema of airways Why do they spasm?

Because they are irriated.  If you’ve ever had a skin test for allergies, imagine that happening only without the skin to protect you.  An allergic histamine reaction causes the spasm, which in turn causes mucus.  It’s very straightforward, really, and I thank Mr. Campbell for pointing me to the missing links in my own "mental map" of how asthma works.  eosinophilic, infiltration of the airways walls; and (5) injury and Why?

Beacuse of the bits you cut out instead of reading.  desquamation of the airways epithelium.  Formerly, attention was focused on bronchospasm due to smooth muscle contraction as the major contributor to the airways obstruction. More recently, it is appreciated that asthma, particularly in its chronic form, is truly an inflammatory disease of the airways. Bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL) and What causes these inflamations other than gas exchange in your lungs? Dust mites;-RO(T/F)L

You think the biological equivilant of sandpaper in your lungs, where you have no skin to protect them, *doesn’t* irritate your lungs?  That’s scary. biopsy studies, even of patients with mild asthma, show the presence of an inflammatory response involving infiltration with eosinophils and lymphocytes in particular, and epithelial cell desquamation. Why?

This was in the first paragraph. Research on the pathophysiology of asthma over the past decade has focused on the inflammatory cells and their mediators, neurogenic mechanisms, and vascular abnormalities involved. Nobody may even think that this inflamation might be caused by over ventilation of your lungs in the long run and over exposure to oxygen and carbon dioxide imbalance in favour of oxygen..because it is cheap, it will bring a cheap solution to the age old expensive problem;-<

On the contrary, many studies of asthma study the O2-CO2 levels (I didn’t know this until I read them myself at the _New England Journal of Medicine Web Site_.)  They found that carbon dioxide is bad, not good, for asthma. Several of them also suggested *less* medication.   One universal suggestion I get is "exercise", which is cheap, natural, and the Drs. lose money if I follow it (because I need them less), but they give me the advice anyway.   And I know you weren’t asking me, but I was so reassured to know that there is a comprensensive, complete, picture of how asthma works, and CO2 levels have nothing to do with it, that I had to share it with others. Scott T.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are talking about symptoms of asthma, I am talking about the cause of those symptoms..the cause lack of CO2 concentration in the lungs and the blood..brain receives info about CO2 levels in your lungs via blood, if it is under the acceptable level then brain sends message to the working muscles to close ventilation to stop CO2 loss and allow CO2 concentration to reach its normal levels.. I am asthmatics, I know that when I have an asthma attack my problem is _not_ to breathe in, but to breathe out, that is ventilation, that’s why I use VENTOLINE to ventilate my lungs ad loose more CO2;-))) Or in other words to raise the CO2 level back to its normal and break the lower level stability… It is obvious you didn’t read my previous post as the post did not discuss symptoms at all.  I am posting it again.  Please note the description of _What Casues An Asthma Attack_ and exactly what the disease mechanism is.  The following is from the Merck Manual – one of the most widley used  doctors references – please investigate their  website:  http://www.merck.com/!!sEao50YhSsEapf12bU/pubs/mmanual/html  The airways obstruction in asthma is due to a combination of factors  that include (1) spasm of airways smooth muscle; (2) edema of airways

Why do they spasm? Because your brain sends them a message to spasm to keep the CO2 level in your blood.. "spasm of your airways smooth muscles" is _not_ an explanation.. |-| /- |-< |-< |||  mucosa; (3) increased mucus secretion; (4) cellular,especially

Why?  eosinophilic, infiltration of the airways walls; and (5) injury and

Why?  desquamation of the airways epithelium.  Formerly, attention was focused on bronchospasm due to smooth muscle contraction as the major contributor to the airways obstruction. More recently, it is appreciated that asthma, particularly in its chronic form, is truly an inflammatory disease of the airways. Bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL) and

What causes these inflamations other than gas exchange in your lungs? Dust mites;-RO(T/F)L biopsy studies, even of patients with mild asthma, show the presence of an inflammatory response involving infiltration with eosinophils and lymphocytes in particular, and epithelial cell desquamation.

Why? Typically, all asthmatics with active disease have hyperresponsive or hyperreactive airways, manifest as exaggerated bronchoconstrictor response to many different stimuli. The degree of hyperresponsiveness is closely linked to the extent of inflammation.  Both are highly correlated with the severity of the disease and the need for drugs. Research on the pathophysiology of asthma over the past decade has focused on the inflammatory cells and their mediators, neurogenic mechanisms, and vascular abnormalities involved.

Nobody may even think that this inflamation might be caused by over ventilation of your lungs in the long run and over exposure to oxygen and carbon dioxide imbalance in favour of oxygen..because it is cheap, it will bring a cheap solution to the age old expensive problem;-< |-| /- |-< |-< ||| – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are talking about symptoms of asthma, I am talking about the cause of those symptoms..the cause lack of CO2 concentration in the lungs and the blood..brain receives info about CO2 levels in your lungs via blood, if it is under the acceptable level then brain sends message to the working muscles to close ventilation to stop CO2 loss and allow CO2 concentration to reach its normal levels.. I am asthmatics, I know that when I have an asthma attack my problem is _not_ to breathe in, but to breathe out, that is ventilation, that’s why I use VENTOLINE to ventilate my lungs ad loose more CO2;-))) Or in other words to raise the CO2 level back to its normal and break the lower level stability…

It is obvious you didn’t read my previous post as the post did not discuss symptoms at all.  I am posting it again.  Please note the description of _What Casues An Asthma Attack_ and exactly what the disease mechanism is.  The following is from the Merck Manual – one of the most widley used  doctors references – please investigate their  website:  http://www.merck.com/!!sEao50YhSsEapf12bU/pubs/mmanual/html  The airways obstruction in asthma is due to a combination of factors  that include (1) spasm of airways smooth muscle; (2) edema of airways  mucosa; (3) increased mucus secretion; (4) cellular,especially  eosinophilic, infiltration of the airways walls; and (5) injury and  desquamation of the airways epithelium.  Formerly, attention was focused on bronchospasm due to smooth muscle contraction as the major contributor to the airways obstruction. More recently, it is appreciated that asthma, particularly in its chronic form, is truly an inflammatory disease of the airways. Bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL) and biopsy studies, even of patients with mild asthma, show the presence of an inflammatory response involving infiltration with eosinophils and lymphocytes in particular, and epithelial cell desquamation. Typically, all asthmatics with active disease have hyperresponsive or hyperreactive airways, manifest as exaggerated bronchoconstrictor response to many different stimuli. The degree of hyperresponsiveness is closely linked to the extent of inflammation.  Both are highly correlated with the severity of the disease and the need for drugs. Research on the pathophysiology of asthma over the past decade has focused on the inflammatory cells and their mediators, neurogenic mechanisms, and vascular abnormalities involved. ‘Reply to’ address changed to foil email spammers.

Response:

You may find that the article below directly contradicts your assertion that reduced hypoxic drive is what causes asthma attacks. Very few people rely on hypoxic drive to keep them breathing. Those who do are mostly advanced chronic obstructive pulmonary disease patients. In general your theory on asthma attacks does not seem to be borne out. -Gareth – My comments below are marked with a – Software Engineer, Civil Engineer | (Almost)TX EMT-B                  | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are talking about symptoms of asthma, I am talking about the cause of those symptoms..the cause lack of CO2 concentration in the lungs and the blood..brain receives info about CO2 levels in your lungs via blood, if it is under the acceptable level then brain sends message to the working muscles to close ventilation to stop CO2 loss and allow CO2 concentration to reach its normal levels.. I am asthmatics, I know that when I have an asthma attack my problem is _not_ to breathe in, but to breathe out, that is ventilation, that’s why I use VENTOLINE to ventilate my lungs ad loose more CO2;-))) Or in other words to raise the CO2 level back to its normal and break the lower level stability…

ASTHMA AND CHRONIC OBSTRUCTIVE PULMONARY DISEASE Incidence Asthma affects approximately 8 million Americans and accounts for in excess of 6,000 deaths annually.1 This does not include those individuals who suffer from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease caused by other factors such as smoking and miscellaneous environmental pollutants. Pathophysiology The bulk of this discussion will center around asthma as a disease entity, however both diseases share similar pathophysiology, clinical presentation, and treatment. Asthma can be divided into two major and equal subsets, extrinsic and intrinsic. Extrinsic asthma typically affects younger individuals, 50% of whom usually grow out of the disease with advancing age. It is best described as a form of type I hypersensitivity reaction predominantly to environmental allergens. Intrinsic asthma is usually caused by non-allergen type phenomenon such as infection, and typically presents as a clinical entity later in life relative to the extrinsic counterpart. Some patients may exhibit presentations of both. The disease predominantly affects the smaller bronchioles and is bronchospastic in nature. Many times histamine plays a role in the acute exacerbations of the disease. Histamine causes copious secretions to be produced which are difficult for the patient to remove. The normal cleansing ciliary movement of mucous and contaminants out of the lungs is typically defective in these individuals. Complicating the picture is the bronchospastic nature of the disease. Although patients do not usually have difficulty inhaling, they do have difficulty exhaling. This contributes to the inability to clear the airways. As a result, carbon dioxide tends to build up to higher than normal levels causing the patient to become hypercarbic. In cases of advanced disease, the body may grow to accept hypercarbia as normal and use the lack of oxygen (hypoxia) as the stimulus for respiration (hypoxic drive). Normally the reverse is true. – Use of hypoxic drive is not normally seen in Asthma patients, but sometimes does – appear in COPD patients; e.g. Pulmonary emphysema. Acute symptoms of the disease can be brought on by a number of stimuli such as allergens, infection, stress, climate, etc. The usual presentation includes dyspnea and wheezing. Most of the time these are self-limiting and/or respond to conservative therapy such as inhaled bronchodilators or oral theophylline preparations. More severe forms of the disease may develop significant wheezing which can progress to fulminant bronchospasm or the worst case scenario of status asthmaticus. These situations require immediate emergency attention to include parenteral epinephrine and/or theophylline, and aggressive airway management. In chronic forms of the disease, adjunctive therapy may include corticosteroids, cromolyn sodium, and anti-cholinergics in addition to the above mentioned drugs for therapy. This page, and all contents, are Copyright

Question:

<<Breathing is oxidation of glucose. While at some point, glucose metabolism and breathing can be linked, the link is not striaightforward, nor simple.  It’s like saying your stepping on the accelerator of your car is the same as the accident you had ten miles down the road.  Breathing also effects other metabolic pathways, anabolic and catabolic. <<The oxidation of organic substance in the open air is going on by 600 C . Organic substances will react with oxygen in the air at quite different temperatures.  For instance, pyrophoric organic substances react with oxygen on exposure at room temperature.  They literally burst into flame on contact with air.  Other organic substances can resist being completely burnt up at over 1200  C. << But there is only 37 C and 80% of water in human body. The oxidation is impossible under this conditions. But it is going on. Why? This is the magic of catalysis.  Your body metabolizes fuels (glucose, fats, proteins, etc.) at low temperatures in a controlled oxidation step. Oxidation is defined as the loss of electrons from a molecule, not the reaction of oxygen with it.  That is, oxidation can take place in the complete absence of molecular oxygen.  The mitochondria in your body cells is a place where electron transfers occur to oxidize substances. <<Still Lavuasie came to a conclusion that breathing and burning are the same because he found the same carbonic acid gas under bell-glasses where the candle went out and the mause perished. So this gas is poisonous because it killed the mause and it is necessary to breath deepper for providing oxygen and remouving the carbonic acid gas faster. Breathing and burning are not the same.  Breathing provides an exchange of oxygen, from air, for carbon dioxide, from the blood.  Carbonic acid is simply carbon dioxide dissolved in water; however, it is an ephemeral substance, and cannot be isolated.  The gas you refer to is carbon dioxide.  It is not toxic or poisonous.  It simply cannot support life by itself.  Nitrogen is a gas that also will not support life, simply because it cannot take the place of oxygen.  Putting a living, breathing animal in either a carbon dioxide, or a nitrogen, atmosphere will kill it because you have excluded oxygen which is necessary for animal life, not because either gas is toxic. <<        Lavuasie did not know as a word as catalyst. The carbonic acid gas is catalyst of oxidation of glucose under 37 C temperature and water. Carbon dioxide (the gas) is not a catalyst for any chemical reaction, including the metabolism of glucose by the body.  This has been shown to be the case since the early 1800s. <<So the man breathes deeper, especcialy asthmatics, the oxigen sratvation of the organism is more because CO2 breathes out intensive. That is why a diver dies of asphycxia if his aqualung is filled oxigen because oxigen is much, but catalyst is not enough and oxidation spots. Breathing deeper will rid the body of carbon dioxide faster and tend to increase the "concentration" of oxygen in the blood stream.  Chemists and medical people measure these "concentrations" as partial gas pressures. This increased breathing results in hyperventilation, a well-known phenomenon, and it causes a lowering of the carbon dioxide partial pressure and an increase in the oxygen partial pressure.  Rising carbon dioxide partial pressures trigger the brain to increase rate of respiration.  The reason people die when put on pure oxygen (and that doesn’t have to be a diver either) is that the carbon dioxide partial pressure in the blood falls so low that the brain no longer stimulates one’s breathing mechanism.  Essentially, the person "forgets" to breathe, and dies. <<The carbonic acid gas deficiency leads to spasm of the smooth muscles of vasculars, of gullet, of nosopharynx, of bronchialltubes, of womb, hypertension, stenocadia, catarrhs, asthma, colities, constipation, stenocardia, miscarriage, etc. Is this true?? <<All this deaseses is cured guaranteed if people learns to breath normally to don’t lower the content of the carbonic acid gas in the organism.The glucose oxidation process starts only after bioenergetic impulse. The word "cure" is a tipoff that whatever this method, it is bogus.  No one who is a trained medical person believes asthma is curable currently. The translation you provided shows the author was largely ignorant of many common body processes that are accepted "basics" in scientific and medical training.  While there *may* be value to breathing methods for asthmatics, those breathing methods, *if they work*, work for reasons other than what was stated here, and those methods do not cure asthma. Best regards, Joe Toomey

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I received information about possble way of treatment asthma and other. I’ve read the book about this. For information attach several pages that describe the method. I do not know is it working or not. Let’s discuss. I try to translate it from Russian.

Sounds like the Buteyko theory.  People that it works for are very evangelical about it.  People who it doesn’t work for rarely mention it. As for the claim that it restores normal breathing patterns, taking tiny breaths doesn’t seem normal to me, and certainly my non-asthmatic friends don’t breathe that way.  If you try it, let us know how you do, whether successful or not. Laura

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I received information about possble way of treatment asthma and other. I’ve read the book about this. For information attach several pages that describe the method. I do not know is it working or not. Let’s discuss. I try to translate it from Russian. Text  Skakov S. I. Chapter 1 . Breathing and life. A man can live a month or more without  a food, it can live a week without a water, but it can live only 3 minutes wit hout breathing.Breathing is oxidation of glucose. The oxidation of organic substance in the open air is going on by 600 C . But there is only 37 C and 80% of water in human body. The oxidation is impossible under this conditions. But it is going on. Why?         Still Lavuasie came to a conclusion that breathing and burning are the same because he found the same carbonic acid gas under bell-glasses where the candle went out and the mause perished. So this gas is poisonous because it killed the mause and it is necessary to breath deepper for providing oxygen and remouving the carbonic acid gas faster.         Lavuasie did not know as a word as catalyst. The carbonic acid gas is catalyst of oxidation of glucose under 37 C temperature and water. So the man breathes deeper, especcialy asthmatics, the oxigen sratvation of the organism is more because CO2 breathes out intensive. That is why a diver dies of asphycxia if his aqualung is filled oxigen because oxigen is much, but catalyst is not enough and oxidation spots. So the deep breathing people who go at a jog-trot get often an infraction. The carbonic acid gas deficiency leads to spasm of the smooth muscles of vasculars, of gullet, of nosopharynx, of bronchialltubes, of womb, hypertension, stenocadia, catarrhs, asthma, colities, constipation, stenocardia, miscarriage, etc. This deficiency leads also to upsetting of the acidic aljkaline balance and that way to upsetting of the metabolism of the organism.So immunity reduces into diathesis, deseases starts including tumours.The salt accumulation of organism leads to osteokhonrosis, sclerosis, polyarthrithis, etc.         All this deaseses is cured guaranteed if people learns to breath normally to don’t lower the content of the carbonic acid gas in the organism.The glucose oxidation process starts only after bioenergetic impulse. A lot of proves that it is try. !st Chapter is about 150 pages. Describes the method of new breathing, metodology. Statistics about treatment of many deseases, including asthma. Some examples from people who stop asthma after 2-3 weeks of exercises. There were several groups for treatment asthma and other deseases from 1975.         In breath the method is to stop breathing to accumulate CO2 then short breath and again pause to accumulate CO2. A man should have 60 second pause then his lungs is empty of oxigen. In this case as Skakov said, asthma stops. It is very difficalt to do. I can only 20 seconds max.         Detailed method and how to do it -necessary to contact Skakov, I will try to.

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